Harry Potter

malickfan wrote:

Eldorion wrote:
Maybe we should re-read them together; I've been feeling like jumping back in recently.

Funnily enough I just finished re-reading Philosophers  Stone for the first time in several years, I'd forgotten how, well, childish the book was, not to say it is bad, far from it, but it's certainly much pacier and simplistic than I remember. I've been tempted to suggest a chapter by chapter forum read through in the past, but I had a nagging suspicion it would boil down to me, you and probably Blue arguing over random plot holes (though that might make a change from the Green Grass and Grey Horse debates...)  

Not saying that it couldn't be fun though...

Bring it on! I haven't read the books for far too long.

I'm excited that there's so much interest in re-reading HP on here. Personally I don't think I'd be up for a chapter-by-chapter thing; that's a little too structured and would start to feel like work for me, knowing the way my mind works.  But I would love to know that we're all reading them at more or less the same time and to have some semi-structured discussion of each book or perhaps blocks of chapters.  I've had HP on the mind for the last two weeks so I'd like to jump in soon (especially since Malick has already read PS/SS).  Is it practical for everyone else who is interested to start reading this week?

malickfan wrote:And I'm honoured (and not surprised) you went to the effort of checking   I'm not really sure If HP would be the one franchise that defined my childhood (memories of my early childhood are rather spotty, and I was actually a teenager for most of the franchises height), but it was certainly the one I remember invesing the most time and attention to (excluding School and the libary, I only got personal acess to the Internet in mid 2010 (I think) so I missed  most of the online debates). It's funny looking back at DH2, I wasn't actually a big fan/obessive of the franchise anymore at that point, but the movie certainly hit me pretty hard, I didn't think it was anything special as a finale, but it 'hit me in the feels' a bit, I remember feeling weirdly depressed for about a week afterwards..

Well it's not like I need much encouragement to poke around in (and then talk at length about) a series that I like so much. I wasn't active on forums back when the books were coming back (though I did participate in a small way when the DH movies were released), but I followed MuggleNet and read lots of fanfiction in addition to using the web to stay current on lore and theories.  I remember there was a site called DumbledoreIsNotDead.com that was full of big essays analyzing Half-Blood Prince and trying to predict what would follow. Unlike LOTR though, I also knew a fair number of other people IRL who were really interested in HP as well, so I was able to talk about it offline.  I remember having a big discussion at summer camp in 2004 about who the Half-Blood Prince would be, shortly after the title of that book was announced.

It's interesting you point out the similarity to the courtrooms, I always thought it was a little odd there were seats surrounding the portal in the death chamber, what would there be to see or hear? Harry and Ginny (from memory) have to be pulled away from investigating the vague voices that issue from it, I wonder if it is a sort of test for the unspeakables? Maybe the portal relates to the Mirror of Erised in some way...

The voice thing always made me suspect that the veil was an attempt at communicating with the dead.  That's kind of a weird thing in HP though.  Despite the strict insistence that no spell can bring back the dead (and that anything that seems to, like the resurrection stone or Priori Incantatem, is unnatural and not the real deal), it doesn't seem all that hard to talk to the dead.  Ghosts of course maintain their personalities and you can interact with them much as you would any living person.  But even though only a minority of witches and wizards seem to become ghosts, anyone who has a painting made of them seems to have a copy of themselves (with personality, memory, and intelligence) preserved in the world of the living.  Presumably the painting doesn't hold their soul or anything, hence my use of the word copy.  Although some paintings are evidently made before someone's death (Dumbledore's was ready to be put up as soon as he died), but it's unclear what that portrait would have been like when the subject was alive.

Fake edit: Rowling has apparently addressed this concern on Pottermore, and it actually kind of makes sense.  Apparently, most portraits have a very limited repertoire of phrases and skills intended by the magical artist to imitate the subject of the painting, but the imitation can't hold up to particularly close scrutiny (sort of like NPCs in video games, I suppose, though that isn't a comparison Rowling makes).  However, the portraits in the headmaster's office were taught by their subjects (before their deaths) to act and speak in a more detailed, genuine manner, which is also how they are able to share old memories and impart wisdom.  Normal portraits are not able to do that.

http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Headmaster_portraits%27_cupboard
http://www.pottermore.com/en/book3/chapter8/moment2/hogwarts-portraits

I've become somewhat disillusioned with Rowling's endless ex post facto comments about HP as I feel it kinda deprives the reader of the chance to use their own imagination in interpreting the books, but this explanation actually fits the text pretty well and makes sense of something that had never sat well with me.  Maybe I'll give Pottermore another try.

I use the Doctor Who wikis a fair bit when I'm looking for something, the lexicon looks pretty interesting from a quick glance, although I can't fault people for showing enthusiasm for the franchise, I could never bring myself to dig too deep into things, I think it would ruin the illusion for me a little, and I'm doubtful Rowling's world holds up to scrutiny as well as Tolkiens...

The Harry Potter Wikia is a pretty decent resource (unlike the LOTR one on that site, which is garbage).  I prefer the Lexicon, though I think they complement each other well.  There was a limit to my exploration of HP lore as well (although comparing to the study I made of Tolkien and Middle-earth, a lot of college classes that I took and passed look limited ) for the same reason you mention.  I mean, I gotta be honest, there are plot holes out the ass in HP, relating to both the worldbuilding and to the actual plot.  Not everything that gets mentioned as a plot hole really is one, of course, but there are plenty of questions with no answers.  But there are some people who are able to take the wizarding world very seriously and make some pretty impressive strides towards making sense of it.

For my own part, however, my love for the setting (and I do love it, don't get me wrong) stems more from the emotions it stirs up in me, not just nostalgia but also a sense of wonder inherent in Rowling's writing that many people I know, regardless of the age at which they read the books, have felt.  It feels at times more in the older fairy tale tradition, particularly with the portal from the real world at King's Cross (which apparently everyone uses, even those closer to Scotland than to London, but there are several indications in the books that magical travel does not follow the rules of geography) and in that not everything needs to make perfect sense.  That said, the best part of HP is probably be the characters. The number of memorable and distinctive characters who I can still recall after all these years is crazy.

Rowling has always been more concerned with cool ideas or atmospheric imagery than logical consistency. Any attempt to bring coherence to her world is doomed to failure. Not sure it's worth the effort.

I think you're probably right Halfy, but I spent so much time as a kid imagining what it would be like to live in the wizarding world (both at Hogwarts and beyond) that I can't help going back and taking another look at the worldbuilding every now and then.

I skipped over the body of your post Eldo because I'm switching back and forth from this to something else at the moment, but yes I would be up for starting a reread. I'm currently near the beginning of Neverwhere, but I could try and find a HP copy at my library.

I'd love to read the books to my nephews as a bedtime thing, but I don't think I can manage to get over there in time every day right now. I respect the idea of avoiding any sense of "work." But I don't see the point of a read-through unless we're all reading at something like a similar pace, so perhaps we can organize the books into sections and read those in a regular format?

You're right about that, Forest.  I'm a little concerned because it can be hard for me to maintain excitement about something when trying to follow a schedule for it (same reason I dislike watching TV week-to-week and rarely do so).  And I've participated in group rewatch/re-read projects on other forums where interest and participation bottomed out very quickly, I suspect for similar reasons.  But it's hard to have any form of organized discussion without some sort of schedule.  I suppose we could treat it like a book club and try to all read a certain number of chapters every week or two?

{{{Though I gotta be honest, if I found my interest waning as a result of regimenting my reading, I might read ahead and then later join in the discussions as they were initially scheduled.  Since the main appeal for me of a group thing like this is that we can discuss specific books or parts thereof individually (and thus in more detail than normal) while those sections are fresh, not necessarily that we're all reading them on the same exact day.  Relatedly, I think it could be beneficial for one of us to offer up discussion prompts/questions at the beginning of each new section just to get things going.  Sorta like TORn's Screencap of the Day, which I used to help run years ago, back when that was a thing.}}}

I bow to your superior grasp of, and greater experience relating to, such things.

Screencap of the Day sounds fun. What did you do, grab a screen capture from one of the movies and talk about it?

yep. it was great fun. Probably my favourite thing on TORn...before..well..you know....

Well it in part comes down to personal preference.

I agree that SCOD was the bomb.  I had a lot of fun with that.  Every week had a volunteer who would post three threads (Monday-Wednesday-Friday), each featuring a screencap they had chosen from a pre-determined section of the movie, as it's broken down on FrameCapLib.com.  The threadrunner would post a few questions to get discussion started and people could chime in with anything else they wanted to say about that scene too.  Lots of neat little observations and talk about the minutiae of the films.  Shame that it seems to be gone, though I guess that's a factor of lower activity in the LOTR forum as well as them having gone through the entire trilogy multiple times.

Mrs Figg wrote:yep. it was great fun. Probably my favourite thing on TORn...before..well..you know....

Well, I'd say that's torns loss and our gain.

I like that this reread idea has gotten so much traction. I think I still have tot hink about joining in with the reread part, although it might be nice to read Harry Potter again over the summer. I'll most likely join in with the discussion anyway though.

I feel you about wanting to read at your own pace over the summer, Blue.  But maybe we can start doing a "chapter of the day" type discussion after people have had the chance to get through at least the first book?  Just tossing ideas out there.

Yeah, I'm all with you the discussion part. It's just, as I said on the last page, that I'm not sure I can just jump into this series on a whim. Partly because it had such a major impact on me last time I read it, and I guess after my half failed attempt at reading LotRs the timing kind of has to be right with these series I feel very nostalgic about.. I did really enjoy reading Wheel of Time over last summer though, so reading another one of these epic series this summer could be fun.

It doesn't sound a bad idea to give people a week or two or three and then start discussion on parts of the first book.

So where do I start my very large list of crabbit grievances against the HP series?

Probably with reading it

That's actually a very pertinent question. Have you read them, Petty? At least the first one?

Cheeky bastards!
I have read about 80% of the first book. I started out reading it to my little brother and after his boredom threshold was well and truly passed, I attempted to continue reading it myself.
Its one of few books I have read so far into and not completed, usually sheer bloodymindedness would get me through, or there is some small detail of the story or characters that has just enough of my interest to struggle on to the end.
But no, I was bored from the very beginning and I remained just as bored throughout.
And the thought that there were a whole load more of them to come was just too much, so I quit while I was still ahead and my liver hadn't yet throttled my brain in an attempt to end the monotony.

I look forward to your chapter by chapter (if we're not getting page by page?) review, Petty. I'll expect it right after your scene by scene critique of Game of Thrones.

Eldorion wrote:Well it in part comes down to personal preference.

 The threadrunner would post a few questions to get discussion started and people could chime in with anything else they wanted to say about that scene too.

Maybe we could do that with The Hobbit films

this is proof that Petty is a weirdo. who doesn't love HP?

Petty, apparently.

he is like the only person in the Universe who doesn't love it.