Harry Potter

Forest Shepherd wrote:Ugh, those "UK Adult" covers are hideously mundane. The whole idea of "adult covers" is quite ridiculous to me. As if the type of adult that would read Harry Potter needs a "grown-up" version with a boring and bleak cover on it. Stupid marketeers.

Totally agree, tonally they just look wrong, I'm 23 and seriously considering pre-ordering the new illustrated versions (which look very child friendly)...

I thought they were on the same floor and that was why Harry recognized where Mr. Weasley was standing guard.

Anyway, I get where I got the impression from. Whether it is supported in the text beyond the description, I'm not sure.

A physical manifestation of the barrier was somehow kept in the Ministry of Magic's Department of Mysteries; in the Death Chamber, a room large and echoing, dimly lit and rectangular, and kept in the centre of a raised stone dais in a sunken, great stone pit some twenty feet deep, with benches running all around the room and descending in steep steps like an amphitheatre (or like the Wizengamot Courtroom 10) and surrounded by a cold air and complete stillness.

Bluebottle wrote:I thought they were on the same floor and that was why Harry recognized where Mr. Weasley was standing guard.

Anyway, I get where I got the impression from. Whether it is supported in the text beyond the description, I'm not sure.

I do vaguely recall them meeting one of the unspeakables in a corridor near the courtroom, but it dosen't make much sense to have a 'department of mysteries' easily accessible...

...I need to re-read the books

Where's Eldo when you need him?

I want to re-read them at some point, but if I start I'll probably just rush through them in a couple of weeks. (Like I did last time I read them.) So, saving it for a special occasion.

malickfan wrote:

Forest Shepherd wrote:Ugh, those "UK Adult" covers are hideously mundane. The whole idea of "adult covers" is quite ridiculous to me. As if the type of adult that would read Harry Potter needs a "grown-up" version with a boring and bleak cover on it. Stupid marketeers.

Totally agree, tonally they just look wrong, I'm 23 and seriously considering pre-ordering the new illustrated versions (which look very child friendly)...

I quite prefer them without the drawings. The drawings don't appeal to me much. But I imagine they can give others some of the same feels that this: gives to me.

I started reading the HP books when I was 20 I guess. I bought the first four in a set which was black with stars, same as the ones I borrowed from Finrod's little sister. I thought perhaps the rest of the books would come in the same look, but they didn't of course. But I got the rest in English as they came out, and I liked the 'adult' covers. Though they looked good, more pleasing to my eye.

Obviously the English version would be bought by older kids and adults, and it would be stupid not to aim the marketing at them. While kids would have to wait for the translated version.

I remember that book.

I guess I got into reading Harry Potter as both my brothers were reading and enjoying it. Although I don't think I was that old. 14 perhaps. (Hey, I guess we started reading them at the same time. ) And, yeah, they are wonderful. I think I got properly into it with GoF or OotP, not that the early books aren't wonderful in their own way.

malickfan wrote:Where's Eldo when you need him?

Aww, I'm flattered you thought of me.

I actually had to double-check because I've done very little HP fanning since 2011 (though that was when the final movie was released so I went all out in my personal celebration/farewell to the series that defined my childhood more than any other piece of media). But anyway, the Department of Mysteries is on level nine of the Ministry of Magic (higher numbered levels being further underground, although the Atrium is on level eight; being accessed strictly by magical means it doesn't have to be closest to the surface).  However, the lifts only go down as far as level nine, which is where the Department of Mysteries is located.  You have to take a flight of stairs to reach the courtrooms on level 10, which requires going right past the door to the DoM.  The HP Lexicon (probably my favorite Potter site) has a number of really cool maps, including one of these two floors:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/atlas/britain/atlas-b-mom-level10.html

The death chamber is reminiscent of the Wizengamot courtrooms, but I don't think that it was ever used as one. Access to the DoM is apparently highly restricted, and I'm not sure if Wizarding Britain even has the death penalty. I think the room was just there as part of their research into the nature of death, same as the impossibly locked love room. Or it could just be there because JKR thought it was cool and thematic and, also like the love room. Frustratingly to people like me, not all of the settings or worldbuilding in HP have a logical explanation, no matter how deep you dig. But some people have made really admirable efforts on this front.

NB (relatedly) Some of the Lexicon's maps are a little speculative, but they're great.  Check out their maps of Privet Drive and Little Whinging if you want a delightfully in-depth exploration of minute clues in the books, early-90s British train schedules, and the various waves of suburban construction in the history of British architecture.  If you're into this sort of stuff, I think you'll love it.

Bluebottle wrote:I want to re-read them at some point, but if I start I'll probably just rush through them in a couple of weeks. (Like I did last time I read them.) So, saving it for a special occasion.  

I've read all of the HP books multiple times, but I have never read all seven in sequence in a short period of time. Back when there were only four or five I know that I read them all in a row at least twice, but I found it harder to find the time and sustained energy to revisit them like that as I got older, gained more interests, and became more familiar with the books (some of the novelty and excitement slips away when you know what's going to happen in almost every chapter). My memories of HP are far clearer than most books I read as a kid, but it has been a long time since I've read any of them. I think that in 2009 or 2010 I tried re-reading all of them in a row but I only got through the first two or three. Or maybe I only thought about re-reading them, I honestly don't remember. However, HP has been on my mind a lot lately, though I'm not entirely sure why, and I feel like the time is ripe for another re-read.

I might try watching the movies again too. I rewatched the first seven in the two weeks leading up to DH2, but other than DH2 on Blu-ray the following Christmas, I haven't seen any since. That was a really fun experience since I hadn't seen the first five films in several years at that point and there was plenty I didn't remember clearly until the rewatch. But it is hard to set aside that much time in a row and then dedicate the mental energy to following through on it, especially with so much other media out there that I could be reading/watching, especially things I haven't experienced before. But I think HP is worth revisiting in a special way, given it's importance to me over the years.

It might have something to do with finding the right time and feeling, I think. To get properly into something you have to want to get into it, and everything else around you must fit. There is something to the thing about never opening a book lightheartedly.. or.. you can kind of get swallowed up in it. So, there is something to reading books at the right time, when it feels right. So, next time it's snowing outside, and there's a fire in the fireplace, and you've got a hot cup of cocoa or buckie or whatever and that nostalgic feeling you assosciate with the Harry Potter books hits you, then sit down and read it. That's how it worked for me anyway, suddeny I just really felt like getting into that feeling I had when I first read those books. Real life wasn't all that, and it was really freeing to be able to immerse myself completely in that world.

If not the overfamiliarity can sometimes be a stumbling block, I think. I experienced that a bit recently when reading LotRs. I loved the early parts, but eventually it got a bit much like retreading old paths as I've read it so many times, I struggled to really get into it and drifted of by the end of fellowship. I'm sure I'll enjoy reaading those books in future, it just wasn't the right time for it. So, yeah, right time and right mood. It helps being into something to really enjoy it. Just a thought anyway.

I do get that the whole series can seem daunting though. And as a series it's not really that coherent in tone, or much anything really, which might effect reading the series as a whole. The first three books feel very like their own thing, and then it moved into adolescense, and got really dark at the end. Though I guess that's kind of the sharm. The books grew up with the reader. It's quite different from Avatar in that sense, which felt like it was very coherently telling one story in the same way, if it was through 60+ episodes.

The movies are.. fun.  Although I never felt about them as I do about the books.

I still think the idea of useage of the death room for executions is kind of supported by an, admittedly circumstantial, reading of the text. The seats, the stage it all seems very theatrical, like set up for something like public executions. My idea however is that the wizarding world had public executions in the past. The death penalty would now be repealed, and this object of history would now only be studied for it's ability as a gate betwen the living and dead. Ah, it's my headcanon at least.

Hey, works for me!

I actually bought one with an adult cover. it saved me from looking like a weirdo on the train, I saw other adults reading the HP adult version and it was like being part of a secret club, adults geeking out to a kids book while retaining some dignity in public places. strangely having the adult cover made it acceptable and cool. some would say ironic hipster cool, but what the heck, it spared my blushes.

 !!!!

"Looking like a weirdo!"

As if there's anything weird about liking a good and thoroughly enjoyable book rather than the usual pretentious high-minded impenetrable garbage that most people enjoy on the train. Either they sit their and pretend to read the same page over and over again, or they read book-porn off the New York Times Bestseller list or something and yet get no actual satisfaction from it!!

The nerve of some people!
PSSSHHH weirdos...

Provoking my crabbit, Figgs

some people are cruel, especially kids. 'Mummy why is that lady reading Harry Potter?' springs to mind. Its quite blushworthy but he adult cover at least gave me some street cred.
on thinking about it, its one of the biggest crossover books I can remember.

Agreed, Mrs Figg. I can't think of any other children's book that has attracted such a large adult following. The teen/YA book market has done so to some extent, but that market (in its modern incarnation) formed mainly in the shadow of HP and I don't think anything there has surpassed it. The Twilight Moms phenomenon is probably the closest we've seen.

Bluebottle wrote:It might have something to do with finding the right time and feeling, I think. To get properly into something you have to want to get into it, and everything else around you must fit. There is something to the thing about never opening a book lightheartedly.. or.. you can kind of get swallowed up in it. So, there is something to reading books at the right time, when it feels right. So, next time it's snowing outside, and there's a fire in the fireplace, and you've got a hot cup of cocoa or buckie or whatever and that nostalgic feeling you assosciate with the Harry Potter books hits you, then sit down and read it. That's how it worked for me anyway, suddeny I just really felt like getting into that feeling I had when I first read those books. Real life wasn't all that, and it was really freeing to be able to immerse myself completely in that world.

You express those feelings really well. This week turned out to not be the right one for me to start reading anything again, since I stayed late at work several days and haven't slept more than six hours a night since last weekend. But I would like to jump back in soon.

I do get that the whole series can seem daunting though. And as a series it's not really that coherent in tone, or much anything really, which might effect reading the series as a whole. The first three books feel very like their own thing, and then it moved into adolescense, and got really dark at the end. Though I guess that's kind of the sharm. The books grew up with the reader. It's quite different from Avatar in that sense, which felt like it was very coherently telling one story in the same way, if it was through 60+ episodes.

The first three books are definitely more stand alone, but I don't think that works against it. The greater scope allowed by a more or less continuous plot arc over three or four giant books does open up a lot of possibilities, but I think the earlier books were more consistent in terms of quality. Goblet of Fire is probably my favorite, and that was the turning point in the series. Though I go back and forth between that one and Prisoner of Azkaban. I think there is evolution in Avatar, but it's more a matter of the creators finding their feet. Although it's always been interesting to me that after the very serialized second half of season two, they switched back to a more episodic style for much of Book 3.

Bluebottle wrote:I still think the idea of useage of the death room for executions is kind of supported by an, admittedly circumstantial, reading of the text. The seats, the stage it all seems very theatrical, like set up for something like public executions. My idea however is that the wizarding world had public executions in the past. The death penalty would now be repealed, and this object of history would now only be studied for it's ability as a gate betwen the living and dead. Ah, it's my headcanon at least.  

I can't say I've ever really thought about the death chamber in this way before, but that's a very intriguing idea. I will definitely keep that in mind whenever I get around to re-reading OOTP.

that death chamber is something I hadn't thought about either. but seeing as Rowling sprinkled lots of references to Greek and Roman mythology in her books, maybe its a kind of portal to Hades in which at one time some people could travel back and forth  like Orpheus and Eurydice. Even though Eurydice didn't make it.

I'd have to re-read that scene, but it strikes me that with the dementors the wizarding world already has such a dark vein that they wouldn't have repealed the death penalty. What happens to a prisoner attempting escape is the equivalent of death by torture.

yep the wizarding world seems to tolerate the dark side, take Diagon Alley, just one false step and you are in knockturn Alley.

I dunno about wizards having the death penalty.  They don't seem like the kind of society that would have abolished the death penalty out of any progressive impulses, but I think if they had it, we would have heard of it at some point during the appearances of the Ministry and the Wizarding justice system.  Every indication is that Azkaban and/or the dementor's kiss is the highest level of punishment that can be handed out. Since the dementors are basically worse than death, perhaps the death penalty was simply felt to be superfluous?

Man, I'm going to have to reread these books. I was under the impression that the veil was (or could) be used as a form of execution.

It certainly could have, and the resemblance of the chamber to the courtrooms does imply some sort of connection. It's certainly a worthwhile observation.

Maybe we should re-read them together; I've been feeling like jumping back in recently.

I like that all this talk has put people in mind for a re-read.

I'd be up for a forum sanctioned HP reread. It would give me an excuse to purchase the books then.

Eldorion wrote:
Maybe we should re-read them together; I've been feeling like jumping back in recently.

Funnily enough I just finished re-reading Philosophers Stone for the first time in several years, I'd forgotten how, well, childish the book was, not to say it is bad, far from it, but it's certainly much pacier and simplistic than I remember. I've been tempted to suggest a chapter by chapter forum read through in the past, but I had a nagging suspicion it would boil down to me, you and probably Blue arguing over random plot holes (though that might make a change from the Green Grass and Grey Horse debates...)

Not saying that it couldn't be fun though...

Eldorion wrote:

Aww, I'm flattered you thought of me.

I actually had to double-check because I've done very little HP fanning since 2011 (though that was when the final movie was released so I went all out in my personal celebration/farewell to the series that defined my childhood more than any other piece of media).

And I'm honoured (and not surprised) you went to the effort of checking I'm not really sure If HP would be the one franchise that defined my childhood (memories of my early childhood are rather spotty, and I was actually a teenager for most of the franchises height), but it was certainly the one I remember invesing the most time and attention to (excluding School and the libary, I only got personal acess to the Internet in mid 2010 (I think) so I missed most of the online debates). It's funny looking back at DH2, I wasn't actually a big fan/obessive of the franchise anymore at that point, but the movie certainly hit me pretty hard, I didn't think it was anything special as a finale, but it 'hit me in the feels' a bit, I remember feeling weirdly depressed for about a week afterwards..

But anyway, the Department of Mysteries is on level nine of the Ministry of Magic (higher numbered levels being further underground, although the Atrium is on level eight; being accessed strictly by magical means it doesn't have to be closest to the surface).  However, the lifts only go down as far as level nine, which is where the Department of Mysteries is located.  You have to take a flight of stairs to reach the courtrooms on level 10, which requires going right past the door to the DoMA door...kinda mundane isn't it? It may be my odd sense of humour, but something seems weirdly British about organinsing the investigation of mysteries into a ministry-you guys have the FBI and X files, whilst even our wizards still work at things from a desk... .  The HP Lexicon (probably my favorite Potter site) has a number of really cool maps, including one of these two floors:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/atlas/britain/atlas-b-mom-level10.html

The death chamber is reminiscent of the Wizengamot courtrooms, but I don't think that it was ever used as one.  Access to the DoM is apparently highly restricted, and I'm not sure if Wizarding Britain even has the death penalty.  I think the room was just there as part of their research into the nature of death, same as the impossibly locked love room.  Or it could just be there because JKR thought it was cool and thematic and, also like the love room. Frustratingly to people like me, not all of the settings or worldbuilding in HP have a logical explanation I've noticed, 'Damn I hate these Glasses I wish I could fix my eyesight' said Harry, conveniently forgetting he was a wizard and owner of the Elder Wand , no matter how deep you dig.  But some people have made really admirable efforts on this front

It's interesting you point out the similarity to the courtrooms, I always thought it was a little odd there were seats surrounding the portal in the death chamber, what would there be to see or hear? Harry and Ginny (from memory) have to be pulled away from investigating the vague voices that issue from it, I wonder if it is a sort of test for the unspeakables? Maybe the portal relates to the Mirror of Erised in some way...

NB (relatedly) Some of the Lexicon's maps are a little speculative, but they're great.  Check out their maps of Privet Drive and Little Whinging if you want a delightfully in-depth exploration of minute clues in the books, early-90s British train schedules, and the various waves of suburban construction in the history of British architecture.  If you're into this sort of stuff, I think you'll love it.

I use the Doctor Who wikis a fair bit when I'm looking for something, the lexicon looks pretty interesting from a quick glance, although I can't fault people for showing enthusiasm for the franchise, I could never bring myself to dig too deep into things, I think it would ruin the illusion for me a little, and I'm doubtful Rowling's world holds up to scrutiny as well as Tolkiens...