Doctor Who

Interesting question? *ponders reflectively, a little difficult at 2 in the morning*

I'm not sure what the honest answer is here. I can find all three (man/woman man/man woman/woman) appealing to watch, equally there are examples of all three that seriously turn me off. It is much more about the situation/treatment and the emotion or sensuality behind it that makes the difference. I equally think I would find the scene appealing if it was two women, it is the tension and awarness of the moment as much as anything else.

And having watch channel fours 'Queer as Folk' when the series ran there is little that makes me squeamish about 2 men these days

I don't have a problem watching a sex scene in a drama featuring two men. My concern is the context, the writing of the scene and the releationship- of which this is an excellent example to me on an artistic level. It is tender, poignant and whilst I do not get any sexual reaction from it (I am kind of flattered you would think so however Orwell but incredibly I am hetrosexual) I can appreciate the eroticism of it on a less physical level.
I do however have some sympathy for your 'squirming' as I used to feel much the same myself long ago. It was as much watching shows like this and getting a better understanding as any everday interaction with homosexuals which helped to change that. And I now find myself in a very good place regards my own sense of my sexuality. And I am offended by very little and made uncomfortable by very little.

Kafria wrote:Interesting question? *ponders reflectively, a little difficult at 2 in the morning*

I'm not sure what the honest answer is here. I can find all three (man/woman man/man woman/woman) appealing to watch, equally there are examples of all three that seriously turn me off. It is much more about the situation/treatment and the emotion or sensuality behind it that makes the difference. I equally think I would find the scene appealing if it was two women, it is the tension and awarness of the moment as much as anything else.

And having watch channel fours 'Queer as Folk' when the series ran there is little that makes me squeamish about 2 men these days

My God! A teacher with a poetic soul. I guess at heart I'm a coward. What if I watched that Torchwood scene properly and "got into" the moment - even on a safe "romance" without "sexuality" level - eegad. Funny, I could imagine having sex with a man in practice, but watching it on the screen really makes me squiirm, and not in a good way. Queer really. (I'd go to a psychologist, but both times I did previously, they ended up telling me their problems! Mind you, I think I helped them, in a way, so I guess it wasn't all a waste of time).

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I don't have a problem watching a sex scene in a drama featuring two men. My concern is the context, the writing of the scene and the releationship- of which this is an excellent example to me on an artistic level. It is tender, poignant and whilst I do not get any sexual reaction from it (I am kind of flattered you would think so however Orwell but incredibly I am hetrosexual) I can appreciate the eroticism of it on a less physical level.
I do however have some sympathy for your 'squirming' as I used to feel much the same myself long ago. It was as much watching shows like this and getting a better understanding as any everday interaction with homosexuals which helped to change that. And I now find myself in a very good place regards my own sense of my sexuality. And I am offended by very little and made uncomfortable by very little.

I don't get aroused watching men either. The physical act, as I alluded to in my last post, doesn't faze me. I just have no need to experiment, though I admit to the occasional fantasy over the years. The "viewing" of women (either two women or a male and a woman) I find stimulating, but it's the "romance" for me still, otherwise, to me it's just souless porn. As to ever having sex with anyone but my wife, she won't let me, so I guess it's all academic.

I have found it is possible (without being too crude about it I hope) to be emotionally erotically eroused by sexual content of a scene such as this (the build up speech at the window being an excellent example) but I have never found myself physically aroused by such a scene.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I have found it is possible (without being too crude about it I hope) to be emotionally erotically eroused by sexual content of a scene such as this (the build up speech at the window being an excellent example) but I have never found myself physically aroused by such a scene.

No, nor I.

I suppose there is a question to be asked of whether in drama explicit sex of any sort is necessary. I don't mean from any prudish or moral or religous stand point but from the point of view of a piece of drama. You can watch porn if you want to watch explicit sex, does drama need it?
For example the charcater of Jack began in Doctor Who which is a family program. But Jack was always out and out multi-sexual (I'm not sure the right word for someone from the 51st century who not only has sex with male and female but anything sentient of whatever species). It was never in doubt then and played out by suggestion and commment and how he acted. So is it necessary to see him 'in the act'? Does it tell us anything more about the charcater or is it purely for sexaul arousal?

Is this not enough to tell you everything you need to know about his sexuality?

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I suppose there is a question to be asked of whether in drama explicit sex of any sort is necessary. I don't mean from any prudish or moral or religous stand point but from the point of view of a piece of drama. You can watch porn if you want to watch explicit sex, does drama need it?
For example the charcater of Jack began in Doctor Who which is a family program. But Jack was always out and out multi-sexual (I'm not sure the right word for someone from the 51st century who not only has sex with male and female but anything sentient of whatever species). It was never in doubt then and played out by suggestion and commment and how he acted. So is it necessary to see him 'in the act'? Does it tell us anything more about the charcater or is it purely for sexaul arousal?

Is this not enough to tell you everything you need to know about his sexuality?

It's all a bit boring really. What about just writing a good Sci Fi adventure story, like in the good old days? The Lead can have a boyfriend, girlfriend or alien friend if he wants, but need it be front and centre and sexualized too much? The concept is not new or particularly interesting. Ten years ago it might have made us go, "Oh gosh! How scandalous!" But not nowadays. (It's even getting boring on South Park, Family Guy and American Dad - among others).

I don't have a problem with a character like Jack in Doctor Who. Its always dealt in different ways with adult matters, wether thats sex or genetics or genocide. Its one of its strengths. The idea the Doctor would never in hundreds of years of travelling Time encounter a gay or bisexual is silly so for me it is still a classic sci-fi it's just a bit more hnest than some in this respect and is unafraid to reflect the diversity in humans.

I watched all of The Eleventh Hour last night after Petty gave me the complete working link and I actually really liked it! The Matt Smith series are available on Amazon Instant Video for relatively little so I might see about buying them and watching them in higher quality when I have a bit more time. Not sure when that would be, but in any event, I enjoyed what I saw.

"and I actually really liked it!"- Eldo

Actually? Actually? How could you doubt the Doctor?
No, really glad you got round to it Eldo. Had a hunch you might enjoy it. As with all TV some episodes are better than others. Ep 3 of the Smith run (otherwise known as the 'the one with the kindersuprise Daleks') is I'd say far and away the poorest one of that series but boy does it make up for it in other episodes (and SMith remains fntastic to watch regardless).
It probably is worth it if you can afford to do so Eldo to watch them in higher quality as they are shot in HD. Series 6 (the current one) in particular looks sumptous in full quality.
And you will be glad to know that now you are a newly born Whovian and member of the Whouniverse that I will cease and dissist nagging you to watch stuff- but of course expect to hear from you in discussing things Who- (how about an episode review of 11th Hour- be interesting to see what did or not appeal to a first time watcher in a different country as Who is so quintessentialy British).

Right who is next for a nagging? Baingil? Tinuviel? (Queens should watch it- especially the Beast Below) Orwell perhaps? Lorient?
We shall see....

Pettytyrant101 wrote:

"and I actually really liked it!"- Eldo

Actually? Actually? How could you doubt the Doctor?
No, really glad you got round to it Eldo. Had a hunch you might enjoy it. As with all TV some episodes are better than others. Ep 3 of the Smith run (otherwise known as the 'the one with the kindersuprise Daleks') is I'd say far and away the poorest one of that series but boy does it make up for it in other episodes (and SMith remains fntastic to watch regardless).
It probably is worth it if you can afford to do so Eldo to watch them in higher quality as they are shot in HD. Series 6 (the current one) in particular looks sumptous in full quality.
And you will be glad to know that now you are a newly born Whovian and member of the Whouniverse that I will cease and dissist nagging you to watch stuff- but of course expect to hear from you in discussing things Who- (how about an episode review of 11th Hour- be interesting to see what did or not appeal to a first time watcher in a different country as Who is so quintessentialy British).

Right who is next for a nagging? Baingil? Tinuviel? (Queens should watch it- especially the Beast Below) Orwell perhaps? Lorient?
We shall see....

Never mind me, I'm already a loyal fan. I'm filled with fervour for the show (if somewhat casually) and rarely see an episode, enjoying it with plenty of gusto (if quite mildly) when I do see it. You may call me a Whoee, if you like, I won't be offended.

"I'm filled with fervour for the show (if somewhat casually) and rarely see an episode"- Orwell


And I don't know about Whoee but I can think of several other names for you!

This one for a cuppa or a buckie and a relaxing read. Th Histroy of the Time-Lords can be a cnfusing place so here's my best stab at it.
Ok, deep breath here goes.

Gallifreyeans (Gallifrey is the home planet of the Time Lords) are an ancient species. One of the the most ancient. They orginated during a period of time known as the Dark Time. Somewhere between 5-4 billion years ago.

Dark Time
A near legendary period before this universe was even fully coalesced. They were the very first hummanoid species. Back then they were known as the Shadow People as they were believed to be caught between magic and science. Magic was big on Gallifrey in the early days and the race was ruled by a female elite of seers, led by Pyrthia. They predicted the future and spoke against the use of reason. Eventually they gave up speaking in favour of telephathy and used it like Orwells' Thought Police.
During this period the Gallifreans began building an Empire, setting up colonies all across the evolving galaxy. They had a thriving slave trade. They also developed technology, usually operated by telepathy. These included the ealry forms of the transmat beam for transporting goods and people as matter streams. This was said to be achieved when the universe was only half its current size.
But they were not the only things in this early universe.

The Time of Chaos
Two of the other races the Gallifreans encountered led to war. A race known as the Vampires and a race called the Racnoss. Whilst the war with the Racnoss was unpleasant enough it was the vampires who effected the Gallifreans most. The Vampires came from outside this universe. They were colossal creatures, planet sized or bigger, and one individual could drain an entire planet dry. They could absorb energy making weapons useless. The only way to be sure was to stab them through the heart. They also spawned vampire characterisitcs in several races which survived into later times.
The Gallifreans made ships known as Bowships which fired mighty bolts. The Gallifreans won but their losses were huge.
During these events the power of the Pyrthia was weakened. Although they had begun the first time experiments leading to the very first time-ship the Proto Tardis 'Time Scaphe'. Like later Tardis' it was designed to have a crew of 6 with one (aged only 4) designated the pilot. As befitting of this historical period is was operated mainly telepathically. This eventually led on to the development of other Time devices including the Time Scoop, which was activated by sound using a harp and could pluck people out of the Time Stream. The Gallifreans began plucking people from thorughout space and time and putting them in a place they called the Death Zone which was on Gallifrey and was basically a huge gladitorial spectator sport where species from all across Time fought to the death for Gallifrean amusement.
A new group was emerging on Gallifrey however, the Neo-Technologists, led by Rassilon and Omega. Rassilon eventually seized control when the last leader of the Pyrthia lost her power of prediction and took her own life and cursed her own race with sterility. The remenants of the Order of Pyrthia fled Gallifrey and hid on the planet Karn taking the name the Sisterhood.
Further trouble on the homeworld began when Gallifrey moved inot a glacial period, power was weakened at the centre and the colonies began demanding independance.

The Age of Rassilon

Rassilon dealt with the problem of the curse with technology (and maybe a bit of old magic) and created the Looms on which new Gallifreans were 'woven' from the DNA strands of their parents. He also set up the Great HOuses to stabilise the society. Breeding was striclty controlled. And Rassilon closed the Death Zone.
After all they and the early universe had been through a policy of complete non-interfernce was also begun.Rassilon and Omega's technoligical research was into primarily into Time and Black Holes, but early attempts to manipulate them led to punching a hole in the universe and into a neighbouring one, the Yssgaroth Universe.

The First Great Time War

The Yssgaroth universe was quite different from this one and whatever lived there known also as the Yssgaroth came into ths universe. The records say they were collossal winged snake like creatures with lots of eyes. But as one of the effects of them was hallunication this may not be their actual appearance. They were very nasty, big on torture and it was said they were capable of spreading your nervous system across continents and keeping you unconcious to everything but pain. Their blood was infectous and turned any living thing it encountered into a corrupted destructive thing.
The Gallifreans eventually drove them back though under their Genreal Kopyion Liall a Mahajetsu in a thousand year war. But billions had died and entire star systems were destroyed. Kopyion remained to guard the final entrance between the universes.
Back on Gallifrey technology was the thing. Time experiments were conducted and eventually the new Tardis design.Omega, co-founder of the Neo-Technologists was busy crafting his new inventions too, two stellar manipulators known as the Hands of Omega. They were used to make a star go supernova and to capture the energy from the resulting Black Hole as a power source for Gallifrean use.
Unfortunetly for Omega although he was completely successsful he was consumed in the Black Hole and cast into a universe of antimatter and presumed dead.
The collapsed Black Hole however had been successfully transmuted into something called the Eye of Harmony which Rassilon retreived. It was placed beneath the Council Chambers of the Capital City on Gallifrey and produced enough power to fuel Gallifrean society throughout time.

The Millennium War

This was started by a race even older than the Gallifreans, and possibly than the Universe itself. They were considered Gods and to have had some effect on the formation of our Universe however they did have technology and built a computer that was part of the fabric of the universe in an attempt to discover the Ultimate Truth. Despite an attempt by a Time-Lord from the future to persuade them not to turn it on they did and it promptly went insane killed its creators and began conjuring up robotic races out of the raw elements of the universe.
The varies races of the Universe were forced to band together to defeat the Mad Mind. Given the nature of the computer this war did a lot of damage to the universe. A wormhole was created in the horsehead nebula kiling quintillions. In one engagment an entire galaxy was destroyed. Even races from the future who had mastered Time Travel were drawn into the conflict including Time Lords. The Mad Mind was eventually defeated when a race called the Ossiriand aided the Time Lords. They dropped 10 million quantum collapsars into the Mad Mind. This did not destroy it but did breach it enough for the Time Lords to be able to get in and trap it in a Time Loop, repeating the same nanoseconds over and over.

The End of the Era of Rassilon

For reason which have never been made clear, and despite all his achievements, the Gallifreans eventually rebelled against the rule of Rassilon and he was imprisoned in a momet of Time within a tower, which became known as the Dark Tower, at the heart of the Dead Zone on Gallifrey.

Uncertain early events

At some point either during the Pyrthia period of rule or early in Rassilons era the Gallifreans discovered the process of regeneration. It was not part of their natural evolution and only given to those who had passed into the proper ranks of scoiety. By the Rassilon period this was either being in one of the Great Houses or by successfully graduation from the Academy.
At some point after Omega created the Star of Harmony and Rassilon installed it the ealry Tardis's were fully developed and with unlimited power Time Travel became a real possibilty on a much bigger scale. The new Tardis were still partly
telepathic but with a lot more technology added. The were piloted by Academy Graduates. These Graduates were the Time-Lords. The Doctor's Tardis, a Type-40 is one of these early versions and was already a museum piece when the Doctor stole/was stolen by it. It was an explority vesel, one of two types which dominated, the other being Battle-Tardis'.

Post-Rassilon

The policy of non-interferance and whatever upheavals led to the Gallifreans turning on Rassilon led to a long period of stagnation for the race.By not interfering many violent or oppressive races in the universe arose, including the worst and most dangerous of them all the Daleks. Even technology stagnated on Gallifrey, in some areas they remained far in advance, particularly with Time, but only becasue they had been so far ahead to begin with. And even this state of affars did not last as eventually the Daleks developed their own time-vessels. And in areas such as computing they were being suprassed by new races across the galaxy.

The Renegades

Renegades is a designation given to Time Lords who were consiered mavericks or dangerous in some way. But for some reason one particular generation of Loomed Time-Lords turned out to be very prone to it and became known as the Renegade Generation. The Doctor was one of them. He abandonded the non interference policy, stole a Tardis and ran away with it into Time. The Master was also of this generation, an insane genius, driven insane by a signal implanted in his mind as a child by
Time-Lords at the very end of Gallifreys existence.
Romana, a Companion of the Doctors for a period and the only other Time-Lord he has had as a Companion.
The Monk who like the Doctor went against the non interference policy and hid on earth.
The War Chief also known as Magnus who interferred in history for his own gain.
Morbius who became Head of the High Council on Gallifrey, he briefly stopped the ban on non interfernece and replaced it with one of altering the universe to suit the needs of the Time-Lords.
The Renegade generation all knew one another at the Academy and the Doctor considered many of them close friends. In their youth they formed a sort of club at the Academy, calling themselves the Deca.

The Last Great Time War

This is a confusing period as it was fought across Time, sometimes on the Higher Plane of Existance and entire periods of history or parts of the Universe ceased to have ever existed as a consequence of it.
The first salvo in the war began when the Time-Lords predicted that in the Time-lines of the Universe there was a good possibility the Daleks would eventually wipe everything else out and be the only species. In order to prevent this they covertly broke their own noninterference policy and sent the Doctor back in Time to stop the Dalek creation. The Doctor did not succeed, baulking when the moment came at the weight of the choice to wipe out an entire species, even if it was the Daleks. However he did succeed in setting back the development of the Daleks by approximetly a thousand years.
The Daleks eventually found out what the Time-Lords have been trying to do and retaliated by using a duplicate of the Doctor to infiltrate the High Council and assassinate its members.
The Doctor eventually did what he had not done the first time and using the Hand of Omega he destroyed Skaro, the Dalek homeworld.This in turn led to the first all out attack by the Daleks on Gallifrey, known as the Eta Prime Incident. President Romana eventually managed to bring hostilities to a tempraly halt initating a peace treaty.
But the Daleks launched a thousand time ships into the time vortex, they were foiled when the Doctor trapped them there but the Daleks eventually negioted their release with the High Council.
Eventually war broke out again and this time it was full scale and throughout Time with boths sides using Time-ships. The Daleks used weaponry created by the Deathsmiths of Goth, the greatest weapons manufactures in all history and launched a massive fleet into the Time Vortex. The Time-Lords contered with a fleet of over a million Battle-Tardises as well as all the ships they had from their history such as Bowships and Black Hole Carriers.
The Doctor who had originally stayed out of the War joined after witnessing a Dalek killing a child. According to Sontaran legend it was the Doctor himself who led the Time-Lords into battle.
In the first year the war tore apart the fabric of space and time and all sorts of horrors mainfested themselves in this universe including the Nightmare Child, the Skaro Degradations, the Ary of Meanwhiles and Neverweres led by the Could've Been King and the Hordes of Travesty.
Davros, creator of the Daleks was killed at the Gates of Elysium, when his ship flow into the jaws of the Nightmare Child. The Doctor tried to save him but failed although Davros was in fact snatched from the Time Stream by the Dalek Caan although the act drove Caan insane.
Whole worlds were destroyed, altered or ceased to have existed as the fighting raged. The Doctor fought at the fall of Arcadia when it was taken by the Daleks.
In desperation the Time-Lords first resurrected the Master, beleiving him to be an excellent soldier. He was sent to protect something called the Cruciform but when the Dalek emperor seized control of it he fled in fear.
The Time-Lords then resurrected Rassilon and he replaced Romana as head of the council. Things became increasingly desperate and the Time-Lords were slowly being driven to ever more extreme acts. Rassilon eventually came up with the Final Sanction, by which the Time Lords would ascend to pure conciousness at the cost of destroying all of creation.
The Doctor described these final days as 'hell'. However the Doctor beleived he had also managed to find a way to end the war by closing a massive rift in space and time known as the Medusa Cascade. He also modified something called the De-Mat gun which could erase a person from Time so it could be used to erase millions. This was 'The Moment'the device which would destroy Gallifrey.
When the Doctor found out Rassilons plan he realised he had to use the gun, not just on the Daleks but on his own people to stop them. Gallifrey and the Daleks bar a few stray survivors were Time-Locked. Gallifrey was destroyed in The Moment its annihalation echoed back and forth through time destroyingentire planets and systems in its wake as time reordered itself.
But that was not quite the end in one last depserate attempt to escape the Docor's actions Rassilon and the High Council implanted a signal into the mind of the Master when he was a boy and first saw the untempered Schism of Time. This allowed them a conduit out of the Time-Lock back into existence but they were stoppped by the Doctor, aied at the last by the Master who realized his life long mental tomrent was a consequence of the implanted signal.

Consequences

History was left vulernable to change. Time and history went into flux. Travel between parrell worlds became almost impossible as the paths between worlds closed.The Time-Lords became for most of the universes inhabitants a legend. Most of the lower species were not even aware of the Time War as history and time repaired itself around the wounds.
Only those who particpated retained full memories of it. And the Doctor and the master were left as the only Time-Lord,
and eventually there was just the Doctor. With the weight of his own actions bearing down on him.


Well thats a pile and no mistake! Hope its an entertining read but remember none of is canon in the strictest sense. Time can be rewritten!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:This one for a cuppa or a buckie and a relaxing read. Th Histroy of the Time-Lords can be a cnfusing place so here's my best stab at it.
Ok, deep breath here goes.

Gallifreyeans (Gallifrey is the home planet of the Time Lords) are an ancient species. One of the the most ancient. They orginated during a period of time known as the Dark Time. Somewhere between 5-4 billion years ago.

Dark Time
A near legendary period before this universe was even fully coalesced. They were the very first hummanoid species. Back then they were known as the Shadow People as they were believed to be caught between magic and science. Magic was big on Gallifrey in the early days and the race was ruled by a female elite of seers, led by Pyrthia. They predicted the future and spoke against the use of reason. Eventually they gave up speaking in favour of telephathy and used it like Orwells' Thought Police.
During this period the Gallifreans began building an Empire, setting up colonies all across the evolving galaxy. They had a thriving slave trade. They also developed technology, usually operated by telepathy. These included the ealry forms of the transmat beam for transporting goods and people as matter streams. This was said to be achieved when the universe was only half its current size.
But they were not the only things in this early universe.

The Time of Chaos
Two of the other races the Gallifreans encountered led to war. A race known as the Vampires and a race called the Racnoss. Whilst the war with the Racnoss was unpleasant enough it was the vampires who effected the Gallifreans most. The Vampires came from outside this universe. They were colossal creatures, planet sized or bigger, and one individual could drain an entire planet dry. They could absorb energy making weapons useless. The only way to be sure was to stab them through the heart. They also spawned vampire characterisitcs in several races which survived into later times.
The Gallifreans made ships known as Bowships which fired mighty bolts. The Gallifreans won but their losses were huge.
During these events the power of the Pyrthia was weakened. Although they had begun the first time experiments leading to the very first time-ship the Proto Tardis 'Time Scaphe'. Like later Tardis' it was designed to have a crew of 6 with one (aged only 4) designated the pilot. As befitting of this historical period is was operated mainly telepathically. This eventually led on to the development of other Time devices including the Time Scoop, which was activated by sound using a harp and could pluck people out of the Time Stream. The Gallifreans began plucking people from thorughout space and time and putting them in a place they called the Death Zone which was on Gallifrey and was basically a huge gladitorial spectator sport where species from all across Time fought to the death for Gallifrean amusement.
A new group was emerging on Gallifrey however, the Neo-Technologists, led by Rassilon and Omega. Rassilon eventually seized control when the last leader of the Pyrthia lost her power of prediction and took her own life and cursed her own race with sterility. The remenants of the Order of Pyrthia fled Gallifrey and hid on the planet Karn taking the name the Sisterhood.
Further trouble on the homeworld began when Gallifrey moved inot a glacial period, power was weakened at the centre and the colonies began demanding independance.

The Age of Rassilon

Rassilon dealt with the problem of the curse with technology (and maybe a bit of old magic) and created the Looms on which new Gallifreans were 'woven' from the DNA strands of their parents. He also set up the Great HOuses to stabilise the society. Breeding was striclty controlled. And Rassilon closed the Death Zone.
After all they and the early universe had been through a policy of complete non-interfernce was also begun.Rassilon and Omega's technoligical research was into primarily into Time and Black Holes, but early attempts to manipulate them led to punching a hole in the universe and into a neighbouring one, the Yssgaroth Universe.

The First Great Time War

The Yssgaroth universe was quite different from this one and whatever lived there known also as the Yssgaroth came into ths universe. The records say they were collossal winged snake like creatures with lots of eyes. But as one of the effects of them was hallunication this may not be their actual appearance. They were very nasty, big on torture and it was said they were capable of spreading your nervous system across continents and keeping you unconcious to everything but pain. Their blood was infectous and turned any living thing it encountered into a corrupted destructive thing.
The Gallifreans eventually drove them back though under their Genreal Kopyion Liall a Mahajetsu in a thousand year war. But billions had died and entire star systems were destroyed. Kopyion remained to guard the final entrance between the universes.
Back on Gallifrey technology was the thing. Time experiments were conducted and eventually the new Tardis design.Omega, co-founder of the Neo-Technologists was busy crafting his new inventions too, two stellar manipulators known as the Hands of Omega. They were used to make a star go supernova and to capture the energy from the resulting Black Hole as a power source for Gallifrean use.
Unfortunetly for Omega although he was completely successsful he was consumed in the Black Hole and cast into a universe of antimatter and presumed dead.
The collapsed Black Hole however had been successfully transmuted into something called the Eye of Harmony which Rassilon retreived. It was placed beneath the Council Chambers of the Capital City on Gallifrey and produced enough power to fuel Gallifrean society throughout time.

The Millennium War

This was started by a race even older than the Gallifreans, and possibly than the Universe itself. They were considered Gods and to have had some effect on the formation of our Universe however they did have technology and built a computer that was part of the fabric of the universe in an attempt to discover the Ultimate Truth. Despite an attempt by a Time-Lord from the future to persuade them not to turn it on they did and it promptly went insane killed its creators and began conjuring up robotic races out of the raw elements of the universe.
The varies races of the Universe were forced to band together to defeat the Mad Mind. Given the nature of the computer this war did a lot of damage to the universe. A wormhole was created in the horsehead nebula kiling quintillions. In one engagment an entire galaxy was destroyed. Even races from the future who had mastered Time Travel were drawn into the conflict including Time Lords. The Mad Mind was eventually defeated when a race called the Ossiriand aided the Time Lords. They dropped 10 million quantum collapsars into the Mad Mind. This did not destroy it but did breach it enough for the Time Lords to be able to get in and trap it in a Time Loop, repeating the same nanoseconds over and over.

The End of the Era of Rassilon

For reason which have never been made clear, and despite all his achievements, the Gallifreans eventually rebelled against the rule of Rassilon and he was imprisoned in a momet of Time within a tower, which became known as the Dark Tower, at the heart of the Dead Zone on Gallifrey.

Uncertain early events

At some point either during the Pyrthia period of rule or early in Rassilons era the Gallifreans discovered the process of regeneration. It was not part of their natural evolution and only given to those who had passed into the proper ranks of scoiety. By the Rassilon period this was either being in one of the Great Houses or by successfully graduation from the Academy.
At some point after Omega created the Star of Harmony and Rassilon installed it the ealry Tardis's were fully developed and with unlimited power Time Travel became a real possibilty on a much bigger scale. The new Tardis were still partly
telepathic but with a lot more technology added. The were piloted by Academy Graduates. These Graduates were the Time-Lords. The Doctor's Tardis, a Type-40 is one of these early versions and was already a museum piece when the Doctor stole/was stolen by it. It was an explority vesel, one of two types which dominated, the other being Battle-Tardis'.

Post-Rassilon

The policy of non-interferance and whatever upheavals led to the Gallifreans turning on Rassilon led to a long period of stagnation for the race.By not interfering many violent or oppressive races in the universe arose, including the worst and most dangerous of them all the Daleks. Even technology stagnated on Gallifrey, in some areas they remained far in advance, particularly with Time, but only becasue they had been so far ahead to begin with. And even this state of affars did not last as eventually the Daleks developed their own time-vessels. And in areas such as computing they were being suprassed by new races across the galaxy.

The Renegades

Renegades is a designation given to Time Lords who were consiered mavericks or dangerous in some way. But for some reason one particular generation of Loomed Time-Lords turned out to be very prone to it and became known as the Renegade Generation. The Doctor was one of them. He abandonded the non interference policy, stole a Tardis and ran away with it into Time. The Master was also of this generation, an insane genius, driven insane by a signal implanted in his mind as a child by
Time-Lords at the very end of Gallifreys existence.
Romana, a Companion of the Doctors for a period and the only other Time-Lord he has had as a Companion.
The Monk who like the Doctor went against the non interference policy and hid on earth.
The War Chief also known as Magnus who interferred in history for his own gain.
Morbius who became Head of the High Council on Gallifrey, he briefly stopped the ban on non interfernece and replaced it with one of altering the universe to suit the needs of the Time-Lords.
The Renegade generation all knew one another at the Academy and the Doctor considered many of them close friends. In their youth they formed a sort of club at the Academy, calling themselves the Deca.

The Last Great Time War

This is a confusing period as it was fought across Time, sometimes on the Higher Plane of Existance and entire periods of history or parts of the Universe ceased to have ever existed as a consequence of it.
The first salvo in the war began when the Time-Lords predicted that in the Time-lines of the Universe there was a good possibility the Daleks would eventually wipe everything else out and be the only species. In order to prevent this they covertly broke their own noninterference policy and sent the Doctor back in Time to stop the Dalek creation. The Doctor did not succeed, baulking when the moment came at the weight of the choice to wipe out an entire species, even if it was the Daleks. However he did succeed in setting back the development of the Daleks by approximetly a thousand years.
The Daleks eventually found out what the Time-Lords have been trying to do and retaliated by using a duplicate of the Doctor to infiltrate the High Council and assassinate its members.
The Doctor eventually did what he had not done the first time and using the Hand of Omega he destroyed Skaro, the Dalek homeworld.This in turn led to the first all out attack by the Daleks on Gallifrey, known as the Eta Prime Incident. President Romana eventually managed to bring hostilities to a tempraly halt initating a peace treaty.
But the Daleks launched a thousand time ships into the time vortex, they were foiled when the Doctor trapped them there but the Daleks eventually negioted their release with the High Council.
Eventually war broke out again and this time it was full scale and throughout Time with boths sides using Time-ships. The Daleks used weaponry created by the Deathsmiths of Goth, the greatest weapons manufactures in all history and launched a massive fleet into the Time Vortex. The Time-Lords contered with a fleet of over a million Battle-Tardises as well as all the ships they had from their history such as Bowships and Black Hole Carriers.
The Doctor who had originally stayed out of the War joined after witnessing a Dalek killing a child. According to Sontaran legend it was the Doctor himself who led the Time-Lords into battle.
In the first year the war tore apart the fabric of space and time and all sorts of horrors mainfested themselves in this universe including the Nightmare Child, the Skaro Degradations, the Ary of Meanwhiles and Neverweres led by the Could've Been King and the Hordes of Travesty.
Davros, creator of the Daleks was killed at the Gates of Elysium, when his ship flow into the jaws of the Nightmare Child. The Doctor tried to save him but failed although Davros was in fact snatched from the Time Stream by the Dalek Caan although the act drove Caan insane.
Whole worlds were destroyed, altered or ceased to have existed as the fighting raged. The Doctor fought at the fall of Arcadia when it was taken by the Daleks.
In desperation the Time-Lords first resurrected the Master, beleiving him to be an excellent soldier. He was sent to protect something called the Cruciform but when the Dalek emperor seized control of it he fled in fear.
The Time-Lords then resurrected Rassilon and he replaced Romana as head of the council. Things became increasingly desperate and the Time-Lords were slowly being driven to ever more extreme acts. Rassilon eventually came up with the Final Sanction, by which the Time Lords would ascend to pure conciousness at the cost of destroying all of creation.
The Doctor described these final days as 'hell'. However the Doctor beleived he had also managed to find a way to end the war by closing a massive rift in space and time known as the Medusa Cascade. He also modified something called the De-Mat gun which could erase a person from Time so it could be used to erase millions. This was 'The Moment'the device which would destroy Gallifrey.
When the Doctor found out Rassilons plan he realised he had to use the gun, not just on the Daleks but on his own people to stop them. Gallifrey and the Daleks bar a few stray survivors were Time-Locked. Gallifrey was destroyed in The Moment its annihalation echoed back and forth through time destroyingentire planets and systems in its wake as time reordered itself.
But that was not quite the end in one last depserate attempt to escape the Docor's actions Rassilon and the High Council implanted a signal into the mind of the Master when he was a boy and first saw the untempered Schism of Time. This allowed them a conduit out of the Time-Lock back into existence but they were stoppped by the Doctor, aied at the last by the Master who realized his life long mental tomrent was a consequence of the implanted signal.

Consequences

History was left vulernable to change. Time and history went into flux. Travel between parrell worlds became almost impossible as the paths between worlds closed.The Time-Lords became for most of the universes inhabitants a legend. Most of the lower species were not even aware of the Time War as history and time repaired itself around the wounds.
Only those who particpated retained full memories of it. And the Doctor and the master were left as the only Time-Lord,
and eventually there was just the Doctor. With the weight of his own actions bearing down on him.


Well thats a pile and no mistake! Hope its an entertining read but remember none of is canon in the strictest sense. Time can be rewritten!

My goodness me, and I was just about to get out the Whole Who catalogue... Thanks Petty. You've saved me a lot of time. (From one Whoee to another -- "Hoo Hoo Hoo." That is the Secret Call, isn't it?)

Btw I do actually like Dr Who, it's just, well, I get this funny feeling come over me at times (a lot). Could I have Spike Milligans Disease?

Not an entirely PC Spike Millagan sketch from the 70's.

25 MINUTESS TILL NEW EPISODE AIRS!!!

EEEEK! Going downstairs to secure a good seat! Laters! The last episode that I watched I was demoted to the floor- never again!

Demand the comfy chair Ally- then make them say 'comy chair' for your own amusement!

Full review later but for now um wow. Mad, bonkers. Numbskulls v Nazi's. Revelations. Mysteries. Another wonderful turn from Smith. A dying Doctor a baddass Melody and a 'penny drops' River.
Oh Moff you can't keep doing this to me. Never saw an episode like that coming at all.
And the Doctors death a fixed point in time? Moff you seem to have written yourself into a box with no exits, how you get out of it is going to be one of the delights of this series.



I'm off to the i-player for another watch- that can't have been as mad and as entertaining as it seemed-it just can't!

Well seen the episode twice now. And it didn't pale the second time just added more. So much in this for a running time of 45minutes.
This contains HUGE SPOILERS as there is no way to talk about ths epiosde without doing so. I should use the spoilers thingy but I can't seem to find where it was you posted the instructions for it Eldo. If you could point me in the relevant direction I will rectify it next tiem I am on.
In the meantime heres the review. Don't read if you haven't seen the episode!

Where to start? I suppose with the deliberately misleading title; Lets Kill Hitler. It came into play right before the opening credits and was back out of play within minutes of the resume with Hitler consigned to a cupboard for the episode by Rory of all people-but more on him later. How do you treat Hitler in a family show? Moffat seems to have decided that to play him straight and serious would be to give to much dignity to him and to play him for laughs for an episode to give a horrible man to much attention. His solution is to make him look like a little man with a big opinion of himself who the Doctor orders locked up out of the way whilst he gets on with the important stuff. The entire Nazi Third Reich thing is played as a joke. In truth this could have been set almost anywhere. But having spent a poor episode in series 5 in Churchill’s War Rooms it was some sort of odd balance to have a cracking episode played out in Hitler’s office.

“The girl who didn't make sense. How could I resist?” The Doctor says to Amy at the end of series 5 and he wasn't kidding. First she grew up with a crack in her bedroom wall that poured the universe into her head as she slept and erased her family members from existence along the way. Then she grew up in Universe where earth was the only thing in it and there were no stars in the sky. Then the Doctor closed the cracks, rebooted the universe and she grew up with her family back. And now in flashback we see young Amelia Pond growing up (in a possible 4th version of her childhood) with a little doting Rory following her about and her best friend Mels. Mels who despite having seen little Amelia grow up several times we have never heard of before. So right from the off you know there's something timey-wimey, wibbly-wobbly about her.

Mels: I'm their best mate.
Doctor: Then why don't I know you? I danced with everyone at their wedding... The women were all brilliant. The men... were a bit... shy.

Mels is trouble, first at school then with the police. And the flashback sequences are a joy to watch especially the scene where Amy thinks Rory is gay before the penny drops that the reason he has never shown interest in another girl is because all he's ever been interested in his her. And she would never have realised if it wasn't for her best friend Mels who points out she already has the prefect man in Rory.
But Amy's childhood is not the only messed up thing about her, there is also the small matter of River being her and Rory's daughter and that daughter having being kidnapped by the still not clearly defined bad guys and the Doctors failure to locate her.
So its a quick spin in the mini for Amy and Rory through a corn field to attract the doctors attention and Mels turns up having followed Amy and Rory and is all sassy and attracted to the Doctor, who Amy has told her all about her whole life, and suddenly she has a gun in her hand and wants to go kill Hitler. Hold on am I back before the credits again? Its all timey wimey you know.

OK back to Hitler’s office, with Mien Fuhrer in a cupboard its time to introduce the Numbskulls*, I mean the Future Not so Nice Time Cops who have taken upon themselves to use time travel to go back in time, pluck unpunished war criminals from history at the end of their time stream and give them justice by murdering them in nasty ways. Religious folks don’t always come off well in Moffats Who with the exception of the Bishop in the Angels two-parter, and the the miniaturized time cops seem to have a religious motivation. Oh did I mention they were miniaturised and inside a robot that can mimic anyone’s outer appearance? No really they are tiny and drive it from inside. They have a miniaturizing ray. It is completely bonkers and utterly brilliant.

“At least I'm not a time travelling, shape-shifting robot operated by tiny cross people. I've got to admit, I didn't see that one coming.”-The Doctor.

So the Time cops are out to get Hitler but they fail and before Hitler gets locked up he fires off a few potshots, unfortunately one hits Mels. And she is dying. But has been clear since Mels screeched up in a red sports car at the start she is River and a quick regeneration later and we have Alex Kingston back in the role- and what an entrance. This episode is all about River and she grabs the role with relish.
The whole thing is a lovely reversal. River doesn't know who River is having gone under the name Melody then Mels up to this point. River is the name of her future self. It falls to Amy to reveal to Mel sthat she is River with wonderful irony as it Is the future River who tells Amy Melody is River- still with me on that? Only in Doctor Who.
But this River is the product of the experiment carried out last episode at Demon's Run and has been raised with one aim- to kill the Doctor and she is a tad unhinged. In some nice counter play between her and the Doctor that is reminiscent of Moffats other series Sherlock River outwits the Doctor with a kiss, poisoning him with a poison which will not only kill him but prevents him regenerating. This is it, the doctors going die.

“It was never going to be a gun for you, Doctor. The man of peace. Who understands every kind of warfare, except perhaps the cruellest. Kiss. Kiss.”- River

In amongst all this we get tantalizing bits of information, some linking old things up and others setting up something new. We find out where River gets 'spoilers' from and eventually 'hello sweetie' and why she has a Tardis diary she refers to as 'our diary' in the future. We get some more info on the Silence who are not a species after all, raising further questions about the aliens in the series opener, they are a religious order searching for the First Question, the Oldest Question in the Universe. Could it be 'Who?'
In among all this madness we also have a brilliant Matt Smith acting his socks off as the dying Doctor. His attempts to get to the Tardis to save Amy and Rory from the Numbskulls robotic and aggressive anti-bodies as the life ebbs out of him is reminiscent of Frodo on the slopes of Mount Doom.
And in between these heroic moments we have River mocking Nazi's and wielding machine guns and Rory punching people out left and right, coolly riding a motorbike and really coming into his own. Don't mess with the Last Centurion, he might be polite about it but he will slug you out. 'Hell of a right hook Rory.'

Amy- 'Can you ride a motorbike?'
Rory -“I expect so. It's been that sort of day.'

And River and Amy and Rory. They grew up with their daughter as their best friend. There are some wonderful but maybe to brief moments between these three. In particular on board the Tardis when River with all the fear and uncertainly of a small lost girl asks for answers of her parents. And at the very end when she uses her remaining regenerations to save the Doctor with a tender kiss and “Hello sweetie”.
Its beautifully played throughout, the pace is hectic start to finish and there has been more reveals and set ups in this one episode than Torchwood Miracle Day has managed in 7 hours.
I think rather than viewing this one as stand alone episode it is really part two of a Good Man Goes to War- but where it went dark this goes light. It is jammed back with one liners, many of them throw away.
“She killed me and then brought me back to life. As first dates go I'd say that was a mixed signal.”

"You will feel a slight tingling sensation, followed by death!"

And there so much crammed in there loads I've left out. Little Amelia as the interface, and the nods to previous companions before it and the guilt they invoke in the dying Doctor, “Give me someone I haven't screwed up yet!!”.

In an episode of favourite moments I am going to pick the exchange between Rory and Amy right after meeting Hitler and Mels regenerates into River and the Doctor and his two companions take a moment to take in the magnitude and shock of their situation in stunned silence. Eventually broken by Rory.

Rory- Is anybody else finding this day a bit difficult ... I've got this banging noise in my head.'
Amy - Yeah, that'll be Hitler in the cupboard!
Rory – That's not helping.


Loved it 9/10 only isn't a 10 because I want to leave room for the Moff to inevitably top it by the series end. Hugely entertaining TV.

*Numbskulls was a comic strip in the hugely popular Dandy comic in the UK. It featured the notion everyone was really lots of little people inside runing us like a machine. So there were people who worked the brain, and levers to work the legs etc.

Numbskulls! First thing I thought of too!

It was brill, loved it loved it loved it, just now really can't work out where it is going to go!

I have to admit I have not got a clue. No idea at all but I can't wait to find out.

I realised something about the Tesselator- its built entirely of British comic ideas. The concept, to anyone in the UK of Moffats generation or there abouts, is going to make them think Numbskulls. And anyone who was a teenager about Moffats age and was reading 2000ad of that period would recognise the aim of the little Time Cops, to pluck unpunshed criminals form the end of their time stream to punish them, is the premise of the Strontium Dog series and that the Justice Department is what the government in Judge Dredd is called. But only Moffat could put them altogether and get something new.

Good news on viewing figures it seems despite some media outlets seemingly trying to claim viewers are dropping the current Who continue to do well.

'Doctor Who Let's Kill Hitler,may only have been available on the BBC iPlayer for the last five days of the month, but it still managed to be the most requested programme of August with just under a million requests.'

Its 1 of only 3 non soaps in the top 25 ratings list (what does that say about our tv habits!). Doctor Who got 6.5 million viewers and that figure is still to be adjusted for iplayer etc. It continues to break BBC America records too being head and shoulders their most watched program.

And repeats on i player of An Impossible Astronaut mean its the most watched program on it this year.

Screenshot from this weeks watch from behind the sofa episode- Night Terrors.

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