Holidays and absences

Has anyone seen the video for "Sexy and I Know It" by LMFAO?

I won't post it because... it's a bit weird.

I remember when that came out and it caused quite a stir because the lead singer jiggles his... assets around... quite a bit in the video and all the music channels edited in these stupid smiley faces over it because it was 'unsuitable'.

But yet, people like Nicki Minaj are allowed to flash their side boobs permanently and Miley Cyrus is allowed to slap a black lady's booty.

And that is considered "acceptable" for family viewing.

But there are roles in a society- roles, fairly or unfairly, otherwise society breaks apart.
It will reform in a new way, but the old one will fall a part and thats no fun at the time- which is kind of about now.
I dont think it can be denied that the two biggest factors on modern society have been feminism and the pill.
The rise of one meant a woman could financially support herself without needing to rel on a male for security, the creation of the other that she had a greater control over her body than ever before- a woman could have sex for fun just as much as a man could.

These two factors combined meant women who in the past had no choice but to continue their role in society as housewife and mother now found they were in a position to walk out the door- subsequently divorces have gone through the roof.
The result has been many young  women finding themselves in the very difficult position of being a single mother, and many young boys in particular growing up without a consistent male role model and that has snowballed in effect to todays current state of affairs.

This isnt any allocation of blame, its just what has happened, looking at our society in the past 60 years in relation to the effects of equality.


Squach you are young still- what do you think about role models for people your age right now- do you feel that whatever you want to do you will get the same fair crack at it that a boy would?
Are influenced by the behaviour of pop stars- or feel they present an image you are expected to live up to or match? Or does it all seem like a lot of superficial rubbish?

I just had to watch that on Youtube !   Did he have a goldfish fighting for its life down "there" ?

If the youth culture has enough respect built in I'm not bothered by the sexual pranks. It may be: the youth of today are more idealistic than the youth of a generation ago. They are also more exposed to the real world. Somewhat contradictory.

I think the two may cancel out and the human race will survive.  

I agree we are in a period of readjustment as to roles, I think a lot of the female anger comes when people talk about things going too far when in actuality in many spheres things are still unequal.

Was just reading that Jimmy Carr has been put on a list of acts at the Edinburgh Fringe dubbed by feminists to be misogynist - an example-

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Squach you are young still- what do you think about role models for people your age right now- do you feel that whatever you want to do you will get the same fair crack at it that a boy would?
Are influenced by the behaviour of pop stars- or feel they present an image you are expected to live up to or match? Or does it all seem like a lot of superficial rubbish?

Well I am quite an avid YouTube video watcher, and many famous YouTubers are male because they get their subscribers from a lot of teenage girls who dream about getting in their pants. (Unless you do nerdy Minecraft playthroughs or something) There was quite a controversial video that someone posted which basically stated "There are no well-known female YouTubers." , and this caused a stir because the females said, uh yes there are, but in comparison, there are so many more famouss male YouTubers than female ones. If I was to start posting videos to my channel, I would feel very discouraged simply because guys are much more popular because the average teen girl like to swoon at them.

It's quite the same in things like the music industry. In the time I've been absent I've been getting into songwriting, taught myself guitar, and I actually won the annual talent competition at my school when I played guitar and sang one of my own songs. Music is something that I'm very passionate about, and I always have been and in the future I would definitely like to have a crack at getting into the industry. I do feel that it would be extremely hard to get anywhere close to the 'superstars' of today but I jus want to do it because I love music and I want to spread that. I don't know if this has ever been very obvious when I have posted in the past, but I am not exactly the most popular kid in w]school. I'm the dorky, kind of weird one that the 'cool' people wouldn't really want to be seen with, but when I performed at said competition, there were people from all years clapping and dancing along, which was really weird for me, being an unpopular kid. There was just something that clicked in those three minutes on that stage, and that's all I want to play music for. Not getting famous, not getting money (though it would be nice to repay people like my mum and grandma for all the help they have given me so far in my life), and not even for the male attention. I personally HATE shows like the X Factor etc. because to be honest, people only go on to be made into superstars. For someone like me, it really does feel like you have to be one of those skinny, blondy, booby girly girls to make it anywhere these days. But that's not me (hell no) and there is a little voice in the back of my mind that tells me I won't be able to reach my dream job without becoming like that.

I think that men will probably always be quite predominant in the famous department simply because, again, teen girls just go crazy for them. They stalk them and fantasise about being in a relationship with them and I think that makes some girls change themselves because they want to be just like, or even better than, their favourite celebrity's girlfriend even though they would have no chance with them.

Example: All this fuss over Harry Styles' GQ cover. ->

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/entertainment/articles/2013-07/30/one-direction-gq-covers-most-terrifying-responses

I personally appreciate those who work for their careers. My latest band crush, All Time Low, (who are from Baltimore, Eldo ), all they ever do is tour because they love what they do. They don't see girlfriends/friends/family much because they tour and tour and tour. I do believe that most things on the tv and many famous people are extremely superficial and created for sole purpose of 'making a statement' and trying to stand out. In that sense, celebrities make it hard on themselves because they feel like they have to 'out-do' what they did before and it's just going to go round in a giant circle.

Anyway, this probably makes no sense because its, like, midnight, but I hope this answered your question partly

Just a thought I want to add -

Girls these days are very often brought up to talk about their 'boy crushes' and who they fancy, as is the stereotype with all these girly movies but boys these days are brought up to make sexual jokes about women and 'have a laugh' with the mates so, when those traits are brought into the spotlight it creates this very odd relationship between male and female.

I'm the dorky, kind of weird one that the 'cool' people wouldn't really want to be seen with- Squach

You are I suspect in good company on here Squach!
I actually think even for the popular kids school is deep down weird and awkward for everyone.
The thoughtfulness, fullness and interesting points you raise in your reply Squach tells me you will do just fine whatever you choose to do.
Ive never been in a band or anything outside of school but I have worked in the holiday business here where you see the sid eof the music industry the media doesnt cover- the people who go holiday park to park playing gigs all year round. People who do it as a way of life, for the music.
And like anything else the best way to get good at something is to work damn hard at it, there are no shortcuts sadly, I suspect that might be harder for a woman still than a man and mean you will have to work that bit harder.
But yeah, follow your dream, learn your trade by playing to as many people as possible and then you have real feedback.
And always have a plan B- just in case.

I hadnt considered the aspect of how differently teenage girls react to their idols compared to teenage boys. Its a good point.
I wonder why this is?

No go to bed, its past midnight!  

Hey Squach - the uncool unpopular ones when young usually turn out to be the cool ones when older. You are storing up and practicing the things that will catapult you past the rest. It's coming.

There are always pockets of people at school that are the 'popular' ones. I was always sporty/naughty enough to be liked by that group and geeky enough to be liked by the others. But, the same as now, I really didnt care what people thought of me. I like what I like because I like it, not because it is the generic popular thing to like.

I think it is always best to be like that. That way you attract people who are of like mind rather than those that will one day realise that they dont really fit in to the 'popular' group and that actually, they probably never wanted to and dont like half of their 'friends'.

Re music, its an odd business. I have been around it a little bit and it is really about being in the right place at the right time. You should give yourself ad much opportunity to be in that right place as you can. And also set out with the expectation that you will probably fail lots of times before you succeed, again due to the right place and in front of the right people at the right time.

I should get back in to a band. I do miss it.

Eldorion wrote:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:It seems to me something is fundamentally wrong with womens idea of women.

Seems to be there's something fundamentally wrong with the implication that an entire gender can be generalized as having a single (or even similar) view(s).

*runs*

Eldo your reply gives me hope that at least some young men are not fooled by the age old subtle sexism that women have to fight every day of their lives.

go for it Lance, theres nothing worse than 'what ifs' when you are 80.

age old subtle sexism that women have to fight every day of their lives.- Mrs Figg

Or it was just a generalization for the sake of debate because whilst its obvious women as a group are made of individuals no debate would be possible if first one has to list every conceivable stand point.  

I could perhaps understand more the accusation it is 'subtle sexism' except I speak equally as generally of men as a group in the context of such debates. Unless I just hate all men too of course.

only you didnt much sound you were using generalization and more like accusation

Here we go..

 

Always up for the fight Lance! Especially with Figgs.  

It was not an accusation Mrs Figg- it was an observation that modern feminism seems to lack coherence and any sense of any collective aims let alone agreed ones.
In the past feminists fought for equality in the law- but they got that and since then for some women feminism is protesting against page three, and for others its taking all their clothes off on page three.
With both sides claiming to be acting on behalf of feminism.

Okay, we've been through this in this country with respect to race, much can be said with respect to feminism. There are three steps in civil rights, usually done in the following order:

1. Bringing the government up to snuff legally
2. Bringing the culture up to snuff with respect to attitudes (sexism, racism)
3. Letting the legacy play out.

By the last one I mean you can't just change laws and attitudes and everything will suddenly be at parity. It takes time for people to work their way through the education and power structure. With race, families still have to learn how to raise kids to position them for the new opportunities, and get them through college, etc. In fact college is the worst because this often depends on a family's economic state. This is where American affirmative action is still needed, with grants targeted to formerly disadvantaged classes to help them climb the hurdle of accumulated, snowballing wealth.

With women there's the snowballing effect of negative stereotypes. Psychological experiments have shown that being told you are inferior in certain ways makes the brain accept it and act accordingly. Not seeing women in certain positions in society subtly conveys the same message. This takes time to overcome.

My feeling is we are largely through steps 1 and 2 with feminism, but still have the legacy battle to fight. In managing a summer camp we had the problem of finding science teachers that are not a bunch of white guys. We had to settle with some people who I felt were less qualified, NOT because women or blacks are inherently less qualified, but because the pool of applicants is smaller due to legacy effects. A pure problem of statistics. But having representation was every bit as important as the scientific qualifications for us: legacy effects MUST be combatted to avoid snowballing.

Mrs Figg wrote:Eldo your reply gives me hope that at least some young men are not fooled by the age old subtle sexism that women have to fight every day of their lives.

Thanks, Figgs. I'd hardly hold myself up as an example of progessivism, I just do my best to treat people as individuals. Being raised around a lot of women and girls probably helped on that front.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:It was not an accusation Mrs Figg- it was an observation that modern feminism seems to lack coherence and any sense of any collective aims let alone agreed ones.

I get that you have to make at least some generalizations in debates like this, but your statement was about "women", not "feminists".  Right off the bat you're assuming (even if it's just for the sake of a debate) that all women are feminists.  Then you're assuming that all feminists, or even just all modern feminists, agree with your representation of their beliefs.  Sure, there are various trends and waves within the feminist movement so you can at least generalize more about them then you can about the entire gender of women, but given that your tone in these discussions does come off as accusatory I'm sure it's uncomfortable for people who identify as feminist to hear your proclamations about What's Wrong With Feminism Today.

Another interesting thing I've noticed is that throughout all the discussions of feminism on this forum that I can recall off the top of my head there seems to be an unspoken assumption that feminists are automatically women. So either male feminists don't exist in some people's minds or they're assumed to be a small and negligible group. I don't know what percentage of the feminist movement is actually male but this assumption seems to play into some of the broader generalizations about both genders that get made in these discussions. Basically it seems to be assumed that there's an adversarial relationship between women and men (or feminists and men, maybe). When you assume that, I think it goes a long way towards making it a reality.

I guess no matter how liberal and well intentioned male feminists are, its difficult to fully experience the sense of being judged and misrepresented every day and from all quarters unless of course you come from other historically marginalized groups like gays or Blacks. Of course there are male feminists and powerful Champions of womens rights and thats cool, what rankles me is people equating women that choose to strip off for cash as somehow representing feminism like its part of it instead a corruption of it, its as repressive as women being forced to wear burkahs, women are exposing their bodies for the male gaze they do it because they have for whatever reason come to the conclusion its the only way to gain the things they want, ie money, this is no more evolved or feminist than women in say the 50s who would marry rich men so they could live in comfort, there have always been gold diggers and ignorant women who dont care but these are not feminists, no one in their right mind could say a page 3 girl is making a stand for feminism and womens rights, what she is doing is betraying feminism and all the decades of hard work and strife those before them had to endure, the Jordans of this world are playing into the hands of misogynists and sexists.

Well yeah, male feminists obviously have a different perspective but there are plenty of men who agree with what you're saying.  (I don't though, sorry.  Strippers 4 lyfe.)  But sometimes in these discussions it seems like the assumption is that only a woman would ever hold such beliefs and that's just silly.

I get u man

thong thang 4 ever

Ive got a friend, a male friend & hes just as Eldo described, hes a "feminist" & is so understanding, but, yet not patronizing. Maybe thats why we've been such good friends for so long ? (13yrs now) He IS married with 2 daughters, but treats everyone as a person 1st, then male or female.

Yeah I might agree if there were laws or intense social pressure for women to become strippers and/or dress skimpily, but in reality the sort of social pressure strippers are most likely to experience is moral conservatism which is generally opposed to stripping, the sex industry, revealing clothing, etc.