BEREN AND LUTHIEN (THE ADAPTATION)

Gandalfs Beard

Welcome to the forum Sibyl69 (erm :? ...intriguing Username you have there).

I suppose it depends how strong of an R rating, or what its for should be considered before posting Fan Fiction at this site. Hopefully it doesn't stray into X-rated territory. Language could be an issue, but Mature Content without extreme language is allowable. If you do post it, please place a disclaimer at the beginning if you think the material warrants it. We do occasionally get younger visitors though we generally cater to teens on up, so we try to maintain a balance.

There are several Fan Parodies and at least one "serious" Fan Fic, and an original story already at this site. You may want to peruse those (Might I toot my own horn and suggest The Adventures of Bilbo and Itaril) . If you aren't sure, please PM me with a segment of your most "R rated" piece and I'll confer with some of the other Mods to see if it's too"over-the-top" or not.

I certainly hope it falls within bounds, I love reading other takes on Mr T's work.

Odo Banks

I'm at work but quickly have popped in. Sibyl69 please take Gandalf Beards advice an PM him. We do run the fine line between the appropriate and the inappropriate on this Forum but we need to bear in mind GB's concerns as to the audience of this Forum. I'm just one of the Fuddy Duddies here, but other Moderators are not always around to back him up on serious matters. I am one of the more serious posters, you see...-....-....-....Well, actually to be honest, I'm not - but GB has got a point nonetheless! Thanks for taking your thoughtful approach to this.

Regards
Odo Banks
Moral Sheriffhobbit

Sibyl69

I suppose it depends how strong of an R rating, or what its for should be considered before posting Fan Fiction at this site. Hopefully it doesn't stray into X-rated territory. Language could be an issue, but Mature Content without extreme language is allowable. If you do post it, please place a disclaimer at the beginning if you think the material warrants it. We do occasionally get younger visitors though we generally cater to teens on up, so we try to maintain a balance.

There are several Fan Parodies and at least one "serious" Fan Fic, and an original story already at this site. You may want to peruse those (Might I toot my own horn and suggest The Adventures of Bilbo and Itaril <img src='/images/smileys/wink.gif' border='0' alt='Wink Smilie' /> ) . If you aren't sure, please PM me with a segment of your most "R rated" piece and I'll confer with some of the other Mods to see if it's too"over-the-top" or not.

I certainly hope it falls within bounds, I love reading other takes on Mr T's work. :ugeek:

[b:k0v0oqwl]GB[/b:k0v0oqwl][/quote:k0v0oqwl]"Odo Banks"]Your idea of competing "musics" (if you don't mind me putting it that way?) has already crossed my mind, Eldorion. I was thinking of the Music of the Ainur and Melkor's desire to compose separate from the 'team' (so to speak). Magic and Music together and wordless singing could work - Celtic (Luthien) and Germanic-Wagnerian (Sauron) as one idea???

As to dialogue, that is the toughest thing. Somehow we need to avoid "archaic" dialogue. No thous and thees for a start. There is no reason we couldn't use actual dialogue from the book and add to it. That would be the test of a great script writer, to add but be true.

The idea of Beren talking to animals would be fine, handled properly, but I don't think the animals should talk back - let's not go Disney here.

The landscapes should be "real" where possible. Middle Earth is a beautiful natural world, if wild, and Morgoth's lands an ugly mimicry (CGI could help here especially). The monsters must be realistic - National Geographic sort of, and put them in real environments when they battle our heroes.

While I think we should stay as much as possible with Beren, we should not ever lose sight of the fact that Luthien is the biggest hero. Let's not make Beren too heroic (I mean not too physically powerful - like a super hero - but we must allow his courageous spirit shine through the darkness!) His life must always be at great risk and his mortality shown. If we're not afraid he'll be killed or captured, then he won't work on film. We need to identify with his frailty as well as with his strength.

Luthien should remain slightly distant. Let's not risk sublimating the Magic and Mystery that surrounds her by making her a stock heroine. I don't how we can do it, but we must keep her down to earth but also remote somehow - she must have an inner natural beauty as well as an outer beauty. Wow! She'll be hard to cast.

Hey! This might be a great opportunity to have a female hero who is genuinely a 'female' hero and not some Conan with girl parts! We'll need female script writers - absolutely!

This is exciting! I need to catch my breath and give someone else a turn!


Odo




If I may assist you here, I am writing a full length novel from the 23 page original short story. Tolkien gives us a plot bunny here. It ends the same was as Return of the King, and readers everywhere will feel ripped off if it ends the same way. Make a movie like that, and it will flop. So I changed Morgoth from a fire-type into a water-type, and let Beren and Luthien rescue themselves. Morgoth's cave is a horror from Lovecraft's Cthulhu tales. The first sticking point is Beren's history; I have made him a Numenorean. Beor is not the first human man, he's a lost and disoriented navigator, and his descendants are ocean going as well. Beren is more adept at forestry than ocean going, since he considers Middle Earth his home, not Numenor. I changed him from gray and grim to young, thoughtful, and possessing a great sense of humor. He's a guy any woman, mortal or immortal, would stop and notice. If he hadn't spent the majority of his life hunting orcs with his father, Barahir, and his men, he'd already be married. Luthien is a young goddess, and the daughter of Melian, who also married down, to an elven prince. Half Maia, half elven, she is unique. She is also lonely. Beren is the antidote to a thousand years of a single afternoon. She feels she would rather live fully for a short time, then last forever at Hyacinth Bucket's house. Melian is a goddess, and all knowing, but Thingol is a very Hyacinth like character. You can see how that all comes together. Melian knew Luthien would wed Beren, and she knows about Aragorn, all long before it happens. Since the ultimate result is the defeat of Morgoth and Sauron, she lets people make their own decisions. In my book, everyone has a motivation of his or her own. Thus Curufin and Celegorm are believable characters, and they are not nice. I rounded out the Companions, and I also decided that some of them needed to live, otherwise it was too much of a bummer. Luthien is a very powerful sorceress, and being a young goddess, is stronger than any elf. Felagund fails in his challenge to Sauron, and I made Tolkien's songs into spells. Sauron takes Felagund, Beren, and the rest of the Company, and enslaves them in a Lovecraftian environment. While Morgoth consorted with Shelob, Sauron more like dates, Arachnae, who is not bloated and horrid, but can appear as a lovely elven woman, or a spider, or anything else she chooses. She creates a cult among the fallen elves, and when they drink her blood, they become vampirically bound. Arachnae tempts Luthien to join them, as she will make Beren immortal, and they will join her Shadow Elves. Luthien doesn't trust that for a minute, and there is some sort of battle.... I'm not sure yet. Anyway, Luthien is strong in a completely uncliched way, but like all elves, is more likely to stand around and debate the issue than to take action. This is why Galadriel, Elrond, etc., let things get so bad... Beren, as a human, sees a problem for what it is, and realizes that removal now or later is necessary. He advocates sooner rather than later, not allowing the enemy any more time to prepare. Luthien adopts his common sense, and becomes a formidable force. Their relationship is a beautiful, balanced thing. Both are brave and strong, but their personalities and races are different. Elf psychology is very different from human psychology, and Maia psychology further still. I'm having fun writing it, and I'm actively recruited proofreaders and editors.

Odo Banks

So much! So much! Now I know why our own Tinuviel tells me off for my verbosity! You have a host of interesting ideas (not saying I agree with them all!) jampacked in your post Sibyl69. I'll deal with a couple (to keep my post disgestible).

Not sure about the end being the same as in RoTK - but if it is similar, does it matter? Beren and Luthien/ Aragorn and Arwen are love stories at heart. The love of each other. Their love of Middle-earth! Their characters will be different though.

Numenor did not exist until long after Beren and Luthien as far as I know. I see no need for Beren to be a Numenorean anyway. Tolkien did not make him one. Frankly, I don't see the point.

Morgoth consorted with Ungoliant? Sexually? Nah! A Cult among Elves! (Darling, are you making a totally new story or making an imaginative adaptation?)

A down-to-earth quality to Luthien I would like. Natural grace, no airs and graces. Strong and brave but no chest beater or seeker of the limelight. This is how I see her. A strong embodiment of Womanhood. A Gaia figure, yes! But not a hippie or a sword maiden or a false-Queenly figure. Natural grace, I say. Goddess? Yes! Yavanna-like. Her power exhibited without a lot of hullabaloo. In the face of danger and oppression a stoic face - realistic fear but no palpitating panic, squealing or fainting!!!

I may seem unduly negative. No, I don't think so. Much of what you said still sounds reasonable. Good to see you looking at the tale seriously. This post is already too long. Message to self: STOP HERE. TAKE BREATH.

Regards
Odo

Hail manwe

'One of these days we must get back to this... '

I hope this is soon ! (I know you are busy with other things of HUGE importance !!)

This story needs to be scene ! (seen geddit ! )

Tinuviel

Regarding to the image of Luthien,
I'm reading Beren and Luthien as we speak (again ) and the thing about Tinuviel is that she's not earthly at all. It's kind of hard to picture, but she really is almost goddess like, only she's in a (im)mortal body. I just imagine her with features that resemble the beauties of nature along with the fairness of the elves. For example, her hai is like a moving shadow, not like hair, but like a shadow. Picture that. Always dark, not reflecting light but magnifecent and breath taking in its elegance.
She can't really be compared to anything, because she's not like anyting. She's her own category. Therefore, I believe her apearance shouldn't be altered whatso ever, or else you kind of loose her character.
And Regarding continuing this...
I sware an oath to one day (if I am able) to make a Beren and Luthien film adaptation that will do the story justice.
10 years from now, you'll be taking your kids to see "another tolkien movie" and you'll think, "Hey! Tinuviel made this!" I SWARE AN OATH LIKE THAT OF FEANOR AND HIS SONS!!!!!!!!!

Ok, mayb not that extreme, but close!

Hail manwe

Delightfully put !!
Indeed, Luthien is unique ! The fairest there's ever been ! I can't wait for that - 10 years ???-
WHO on earth would play her ?? :? ... You'll have to collect that award for yourself I think, Tinuviel !
I hope that means you (and others) will carry on with this. 8-)

Odo Banks

Oh dear oh dear - Beren and Luthien! The Hobbit Script! And now Grumpy Banks....! Why did I allow myself to be lured into this Mad Mad Imaginative Forumworld!? (And then there's my own Original Story - all 500,000 words needing editing! No wonder people think I'm funny in the head. It's because I [i:xfbiclth]am [/i:xfbiclth]funny in the head! ) I am a true Modernist - I blame everyone else! But you're right, guys, we can't let this drop. Come on Tinuviel - next scene please! (Your Luthien is gorgeous btw!)

Tinuviel

Alright. Just tell me what scene you'd like to see. You want it, I'll write it. I just can't decide. I have my own project to work on as well, but I'll write whatever whenever :mrgreen:
And Manwe, that's not MY description, it's Tolkiens

Wise Odo

Oh Tin, you Big Mouth. Admit nothing until you're caught out - and even then, admit nothing! (That's My method! :? )

Hail manwe

Thanks Tinuviel. I don't remember all of your quote from Tolkiens books so I thought you'd added some !
I know you said you don't always write in order so whatever comes to your mind would be great ! 8-)

HenrySmith

The Beren and Luthien story is wonderful. I wish you well with this. I personally think it is one of Tolkien's best. Luthien manages to be a strong heroine, brave and resoueceful, a tough sister to have with you in a fight, but not a warrior maid, nor one who would sell out on her essential femininity. I think Tolkien had a deep respect for women, especially capable ones. She is a far better realized character than most of his men - if not all of them:- Jane

Grey Pilgrim

I agree. In fact, I would go as far as to say that this love/adventure story is up with the best love/adventure stories ever written. The quintessential adult fairytale in my opinion. It would make a brilliant movie. Sometimes we can lose sight a little of just how imaginative and insightful Tolkien was. What I mean by this is that critics often go on and on about the history and mythology and linguistics Tolkien was so submerged in and which suffused his tales, but his storytelling always had a definite fresh newness to it. You never feel you are reading mere regurgitations of older stories. His tales sparkle. His characters are alive. Also, you know his characters so very well, but yet he actually tells you very little of them. It's in what he [i:3vq2t8v4]doesn't [/i:3vq2t8v4]say that Tolkien is strongest, despite all the detailed planning he committed to his world. This will be a great film whenever it is made. In ten years time, is that right Tinuviel?

Tinuviel

ten most likely, yes. It all depends when I have the right materials...

HenrySmith

Ten years will give you plenty of time to get it right, Tinuviel! Good luck with it! 8-)

Tinuviel

Ok, I was thinking about writing the part where Beren and Luthien meet Morgoth and Luthien kicks his.... uh... butt. I'm not sure how much dialog there will be. If you'd prefer a scene with more dialog, let me know

Odo Banks

You must do what your heart tells you, Tin.

The film script can be our jigsaw, but instead of making a picture and cutting it up, we''l make the pieces and fit them together! (Would that be a post-modernist jigsaw, I wonder? :? )

In other words.. kick butt girl!

Fantari

have set up some trip cameras along likely trails. I found this photo in one of them the other day. :-)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2217934/Frodo%2 ... ctacus.JPG

Gandalfs Beard

That's brilliant Fantari.

Odo Banks

Hobbits in the First Age - I knew it!

Pettytyrant101

Ha Fantari- if it had been him I would still be there now, happily punching him for his performance as Frodo.

Sibyl69

An Invitation to All

I have posted the first three chapters of my version of The Tale of Beren and Luthien Tinuviel under "Notes," on my Facebook account. Please feel free to review it and email me any comments, criticisms or ideas. Anybody want a cameo appearance? The first three chapters seem a little slow, but it's building Beren and Luthien's relationship with each other, and provide the basis for what Luthien does. It's also a contrast to what happens afterward; Sauron and Morgoth are no picnic. Just Google Cynthia Norris-Brooks, and it should come up. It's set to public.

Durin

I'm trying to decide whether or not to release the wrath of the Ban Hammer or not.

I suppose it's Tolkien related, so.

However, the account seems locked to me.

Eldorion

It's locked for me too.

In any event, even if it's Tolkien related, it sounds like fan fiction. :?

Durin

'In any event, even if it's Tolkien related, it sounds like fan fiction.'

Sort of, but so is Paul Erickson's... and his is absolutely delightful.