The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:37 pm

"Police Scotland said: “A 74-year-old woman was arrested on Tuesday, 9 April, 2024 in connection with a report of verbal abuse in the Harbour Road area of Troon on Monday, 8 April, 2024."

so arrested then.

"Officers confirmed there was a “hate crime element” to the callout but said the arrest was made under pre-existing laws which deal with threatening and abusive behaviour."

So arrested then.

"she was stunned to find two police officers at her front door at Harbour Road in the South Ayrshire seaside town. She was arrested and taken away in a police van for questioning at Kilmarnock police station, with the apologetic officers saying she would be put in handcuffs if she refused."

"Mrs Brown asked why she couldn't be interviewed in her own home and was told it was due "the new law that came in on April 1". She also says she was not told what she was being arrested for until she had arrived at the police station."

So arrested then.

“Humza Yousaf’s dangerous Hate Crime Act is open to exploitation by individuals looking to settle scores, and this can lead to innocent people being targeted and, in some cases, carted off in police vans."

great stuff
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Apr 13, 2024 8:44 pm

{{ Sources Figg! My source is Police Scotland who say - "a suspect was detained for questioning by police and released without charge or criminal record"- Police Scotland.
Keep believing the right wing press and commentators all you like Figg. Ill stick to getting to the facts. 'Arrested' in this context means nothing more than suspected of a crime and questioned. The actual proper arrest and charge bit comes after you're interviewed, at the end of which they say either, 'you're free to go, or you are being arrested under the (applicable law)' and you're taken off to the cells till your court date. That clearly is not what happened here.
The police rarely tell you what they are after till they have you in the station, that was the case with me on all three occasions they tried to get me on drug charges- and I have been officially arrested, I know how it works, Ive been there.  Under this context I've been arrested a few times, got 'arrested' during the poll tax riots in Glasgow, got arrested when they came through my front door suspected of growing weed, got arrested after a rammy in a pub (that one was a fair cop mind you, I was a wee bit lucky to have got away with that as I did throw a few punches in the melee) and got arrested on suspicion of being in possession of drugs. Never been actually arrested however in the sense I was never charged with anything. Which is the bit that actually counts. Everything else is just being talked to and investigated which is all the preliminary 'arrest' means. It's nothing without a charge.

Note also this would have happened with or without the new hate crime laws as you yourself quote the police saying- 'the arrest was made under pre-existing laws'. The 'hate' element, if proved would just have meant the charge would have included 'aggravated'.

The difference is if this had happened before the new laws came into force it would not even be reported on, it's such a non-event. We are only hearing about it at all as the right wing press want to claim its overreach under the new laws, even though you yourself make it clear in your quote it would have happened anyway as she was being investigated under the (50 year old UK wide) pre-existing laws! If this happened today in England the police would do the same, only they would not have to consider if the crime was aggravated by age related abuse, which is the only bit which falls under the new law.}}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Apr 13, 2024 9:22 pm

Let's see what happens come next elections, let's see how popular living in 1984 really is.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:20 pm

{{ The election that matters here is not Westminster, it's the Scottish Parliament - where the SNP are projected as it stands to get 49 seats, Tory 20, Labour 41, Green 10, Lib Dems 9. (And remember we have a PR system, designed by Labour, at it's set up, to prevent the SNP every being able to gain a majority - Labour didn't make devolution pr to make it fairer, they publicly declared their aim was to stop the nationalist ever being able to gain control and force a referendum).

On the general election however the polling at the moment is neck and neck between SNP and Labour, not surprising given Labours resurgence in the UK generally. Scots stopped voting Labour at General Elections for two primary reasons - first and foremost it was very clear at the last few elections England was not going to vote Labour, especially not for Corbyn. And without that happening a vote for labour here is a wasted vote as it won't change a thing, so better to send SNP to at least hold accountability, and secondly Scottish Labour as a party collapsed under accusation Westminster Labour treated and thought of them as little more than a 'branch office' and then they were changing leader at least once every year in a series of nasty infighting.
This election is different because England does look like it will return a Labour government, so it's worth Scots voting Labour this time to ensure getting rid of the Tories at Westminster (a no1 priority for most Scots, there's a good chance I'll vote Labour at the general election for that very reason, and SNP at the Scottish elections because I believe in independence from Westminster) and Scottish Labour is very slightly in better order after years of rotating leaders under Sarwar, the first half competent leader Scottish Labour has had in over a decade.
As I said before the SNP having a large number of MP's is an anomaly of the last few elections (before they had 4 MP's) created by unique circumstances, as a politics watcher I am amazed it has lasted this long and that is largely down to the incompetence of Labour here.

As to living in '1984' you do know you're the only person I've discussed this with, in my real life not a soul is talking about it or caring outside the usual anti-SNP brigade in the right wing English owned press here. Our biggest immigrant population anyway are the English, at 600,000, way more than the next nearest group are Asian at 141,000, then Polish at 62,000, 36,000 black. Maybe we need a border with England to control immigration!
And if what I heard at work the other night is representative of modern day England I would far rather live in Scotland as it is than hate filled England going after 'johnny foreigner' at every turn. I would much rather live in a country that tries to stop hatred towards the disabled, gays and lesbians, or the elderly as well as race than one where hate runs rampant. But if that's the England you prefer fine.}}


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Apr 13, 2024 10:56 pm

{{ Iran just launched a strike against Israel, dornes and missiles they say, this is going to be an interesting night.
Problem for the West here is that Iran are in the right on this one, Israel committed a clear war crime when they blow up the Iranian Embassy in Syria. If Iran had blown up any of our embassies, we would also retaliate and call it justified. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:07 pm

I prefer a country that allows free speech and doesn't follow you into your living room to snoop on your conversations. They did that in China and East Germany. It didn't work out well did it.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:10 pm

{{ When you say stuff like that Figg it only demonstrates your complete and utter lack of understanding of how the law operates, what it criminalises and the legal bar within it for reaching criminality (which is the exact same as it was for racial abuse before the new law which is UK wide, the bar for criminality has not changed). I suspect you have still to actually read the bill, let alone understand it. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:31 am

{{ Reports Iran have fired ballistic missiles, likely to strike if they make it through deep into Israel. UK RAF are mobilised, the US is mobilised and flat out war looks more and more likely.
Ive been keeping an eye on Russian news (you want to talk 1984 Figg how about the fact I have to use a VPN to get Russian news because our Westminster government doesn't just censor it, it blocks it from British eyes altogether) so far no offical statements, but the general direction of coverage indicates lumping UK, USA and Israel in together as the problem in the region. Iran is an ally of Russia and if the US steps in fully on Iran things could escalate badly and quickly. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:47 am

{{ My reading of this is- Israel violated international law and committed a war crime by attacking the Iranian embassy. The purpose of this was to force Iran directly into the conflict rather than working through their usual proxies. The purpose behind that was to bring the US and allies back onboard on the Israeli side, stopping the criticism of Israel and distracting focus from the atrocities Israel is committing in Gaza and forcing the US to declare complete and utter backing of Israel.
A lot will now depend on if Israel launches an attack on Iran and how the US responds. Those factors will dictate whether this ends up as a skirmish or all out war. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Apr 14, 2024 12:51 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ When you say stuff like that Figg it only demonstrates your complete and utter lack of understanding of how the law operates, what it criminalises and the legal bar within it for reaching criminality (which is the exact same as it was for racial abuse before the new law which is UK wide, the bar for criminality has not changed). I suspect you have still to actually read the bill, let alone understand it. }}

I suspect that you are now grasping at straws. Actually, Straw Men. This ludicrous law will hoist Humza by his own petard, and hopefully lead to him getting his P45 sooner rather than later. He and his little mates have failed the Scottish people on multiple fronts. First off, the health and education systems are failing, and the drug situation is the worst in Europe. If he hadn't been utterly incompetent as well as a racist, he might have got away with it, but unfortunately, he can't even sort the ferries out or stop his brother-in-law from murdering someone by throwing them out of a window. You couldn't make it up. Laughing
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Post by halfwise Sun Apr 14, 2024 1:36 pm

Looks like the Iran retaliation turned into a nothing-burger, due in large part to Iran following the steps of the dance by letting Israel know days in advance it was coming. If they really wanted to accept the escalation they would have done a sneak attack with higher probability of getting through the defences.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Apr 14, 2024 1:38 pm

{{ Education has taken a hit, though a lot less major than you would like to imply Figg. The studies were carried out by PISA- that compares OECD scores across nations. The dates cover the 2018 to 2022, the last available figures and they show a drop in education standards globally due to the pandemic and economic recession. In terms of the scoring - reading has dropped from 486 to 476, maths from 487 to 472 and science 487 to 485.
For comparison England's scores went from reading 520 dropped to 496, maths dropped from 522 to 492 and science from 530 to 503.
So whilst Scotland is slightly behind England the drop across the period in some areas was larger in England than in Scotland, it was down in almost every nation in the world during this period however because of the pandemic, with only Singapore bucking the trend and increasing their scores.

My own local schools are superb. It recently won the international award for 'Worlds Best School for Community Collaboration', won the Gaelic Education Award, it has an average of 96% of pupils sitting higher exams passing. It's also a new build, the old school under a Labour and Tory governments was literally sinking into the ground and falling apart- when I went there we spent 3 years being taught in Portakabins on the grounds while builders tried to stop it falling down! It was freezing cold and often closed down entirely in winter due the ancient heatin gsystem breaking constantly, we wore big jackets in class. It's now a brand new modern school with computers at every desk, a massive media suite and is 1000% better place to learn in that the one I went to. Thanks to the SNP school building program.
Now is there room for improvement? Of course, our numbers have fallen, pandemic aside there is still a drop of about 3 points on average in our overall rankings (incidentally Scotland, as not an independent country doesn't get placed on the global ranking list, but its easy enough to go on the figures and see where we would rank- its 14th, one place behind England, so if Scottish education is so awful Figg, then England's is not much better and most of the rest of the worlds must be awful).

Scotland has always had a drug and drink issue, it had it before devoltuion, it had it under the Tories and under Labour, it's sadly not uncommon in northern latitude European states. However, successive attempts to address it have been thwarted by Westminster who have blocked several attempts by the Scottish Parliament to deal with the issue by moving it into the area of Health rather than law- England have blocked this at every turn as drug policy is NOT devolved (and as it suits Westminster for Scotland to have a drug problem they can blame on the SNP as ignorant folk who haven't been paying attention don't know it's not devolved).

The ferries has very little to do with Humza, he was not even a minister when Alex Slamond initiated the ferry program, he was not a minister when Sturgeon saved the last dockyard by nationalising it, and last I checked he wasn't expected to be out there building them himself. On the other side the first of the ferries, for the Arran route was launched jut last week, its getting on track now. The yard stayed in business saving thousands of skilled jobs so you could even argue Humza has got a grip on it better than his predecessors.

As to his brother in law-I'm actually pretty damn disgusted at you here Figg. I had no idea you believed in punishing people for the sins of their relatives (not even a blood relative) thats a very shitty position to adopt. How's your family Figg? Any black sheep? If there are should we assume any actions of theirs are also yours and blame and punish you accordingly for them? Blaming people for the crimes of others just because they are related to them in some fashion is such a stupid and repulsive idea I can't honestly believe you said it. A new low for you.

And the only racism I'm detecting Figg is from you, you seem to be fully in line with the English I heard at the hotel, full of hate and bile directed against anyone not white, not English. }}


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Apr 14, 2024 1:41 pm

{{ Halfy- yes this was calculated by Iran, it was designed to be enough to show their allies they will respond, but not enough to provoke entry into the war by the US and they even notified the US it was coming, citing their right to retaliation under international law for the embassy attack (and they are right there, we'd respond if Iran blew up one of our embassies) The biggest factor now is what Israel do next. If they expand the war by attacking Iran. One journalist put it well Iran took a step up the escalation ladder but only to the middle rung, Israel will now be the deciding factor if we go up a rung, or back down. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:05 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ And the only racism I'm detecting Figg is from you, you seem to be fully in line with the English I heard at the hotel, full of hate and bile directed against anyone not white, not English. }}

Care to explain exactly where I have been racist? It's Useless Humza who is the anti-white racist.

This is the last time that I will ask you to stick to the debate and quit the personal slurs.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:21 pm

It's Useless Humza who is the anti-white racist. -Figg

{{ Right there Figg. Did you watch all four hours of the debate in which he talked about representation at the top in Scotland? I did - do you even know what the debate was about or titled? Do you know the context of his statement? - given I've explained it about 5 times already and shown your claim to be utterly hollow, taken out of context and yet you persist in callng a non white Muslim racist against white people, sturring up unfounded anger against him by painting him in this way contrary to the actual facts, the content of the debate or the issue he was raising.
So it seems you will reject anything which goes against your narrative, including the facts.

So I will attempt to give the facts again - the debate was about representation at different levels within the working environment in Scotland. Humza's point was if you go the 'factory floor' level you find appropriate representation, my own workplace is a great example of this - cleaning/kitchen/restaurant staff make up the bulk of employees, as you'd expect they are mainly white, but not all, we have about 4 non-white staff members. This is perfectly in line with what you would expect given the proportion of ethnic groups versus indigenous white. The same thing occurs at middle management level, you find the majority of middle managers in Scotland are white, but the numbers of non-whites are largely in line with what should be expected given the population mix. But then you get to the top institutions and companies in Scotland, and suddenly that representation is absent, at the very top it's almost exclusively white. As Humza said when he goes to a meeting of all the heads of various Scottish institutions; police, judiciary and the like they are all white. The expected numbers of non-white as appropriate to the population are simply not there - and he was asking why not? Why are ethnic groups appropriately represented at every level except the very top?

That is the context of his remarks. There is nothing racist about them. People like you who claimed it were got the police involved at the time as all they saw was the right wing sound bite, and the Police also found, rightly, there was nothing to answer. Then when the new hate crime laws were brought in those same people flooded the police with thousands of complaints about the same thing as they were too stupid to know that it had already been investigated and that the new laws were not even required for that to happen.

Your persistence in making false accusations against him, even though it is utter rubbish, indicates to me you are more concerned with attacking and tarnishing him using race do so than you are interested in truth. And that in turn promotes racist attitudes against minorities. I am not calling your statements racist as jut a slur Figg, I'm calling them racist because that's how your words seem to me. Racist and damaging to the fabric of society by repeating and spreading falsehoods about a non-white Muslim that he is anti-white. It's stupid, dangerous and has no basis in facts. If you want to make a case he is anti-white point me to legislation he has promoted or passed which targets whites. You can't of course, they don't exist. I can however provide you with a list of laws since the SNP came to power designed to aid the population, of mainly white people, especially the poorest, also mainly white people, Humza has championed and voted for.}}


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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Apr 14, 2024 3:27 pm

I am done here. Signing out for the last time.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Apr 14, 2024 6:58 pm

{{ Biden is telling Israel not to respond with an attack on Iranian soil. I doubt they will listen.
Israel though have got what they want out of this and their far right minster for war is not even trying to hide it- "Israel against Iran, the world against Iran. This is the result. That is a strategic achievement which we must leverage".

They've brought the US and UK and other allies back on side by dragging Iran into the conflict.
For their part Iran is saying they are drawing a line under it, this was their legal right to respond, they have done so and they are not planning further attacks (at least not from Iranian soil they will continue to use their proxies as before).

So the ball now, whether this escalates into an all out conflict with Iran which not only risks pulling the US and others directly into the war, but dragging Russia in too on the Iranian side- is in the Israeli court. On recent behaviour I don't expect them to make the sane choice. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Apr 15, 2024 7:23 am

{{ Keeping an eye on what Russia is saying response to all this - there was an emergency UN Security Council meeting, the Russian position is to highlight Western hypocrisy, mainly over the lack of official UN condemnation for the Israel's illegal attack on the Iranian Embassy (the US, UK and Germany all vetoed an official condemnation so they are not wrong).

"What happened on the night of April 14 did not happen in a vacuum,” Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia told members of the UN Security Council on Sunday. “The steps undertaken by Iran became a reaction to the disgraceful inaction by this council. We called on UN Security Council colleagues to clearly and unequivocally condemn such reckless steps to make sure that they don’t get repeated. We also warned that otherwise, the risk of a repeat of such acts and a general escalation in the region would grow manifold.” He added, “The outcome is now clear for everyone to see. We know very well that an attack against a diplomatic representation is a casus belli* under international law. And if a Western representation had been hit, you would immediately have rained down reprisals.”

* an act or situation that provokes or justifies war

Again the problem for the West in the global eyes of the world is he is not wrong. It is clearly a war crime, international law clearly states such an attack justifies a response, and had a Western nations embassy been destroyed in such a manner we would 100% respond. Iran were perfectly within their international rights to mount a response. And Israel were clearly in breach of international law and committed (yet another) war crime.

I still believe Israel's aim is to both switch focus from their crimes in Gaza while they finish the job of finishing the Palestinians, especially any chance of a viable Palestinian state as a 2-state solution is the one outcome Israel is determined not to allow to happen, and to drag the US back on side with Israel by dragging into the conflict a common enemy, Iran. It's deliberate escalation of the conflict to broaden it out.

And if Palestinians get an officially recognised country and government in Gaza and the West Bank (there are now a list of countries including the UK who have either floated the idea, or outright said they are going to recognise a Palestinian state) then Israel will have no cover at all for their illegal occupation attempts or their illegal settler program, or the illegal attacks conducted by settlers on Palestinians. Israel would have their hands tied and that means they can't do what their mad religion demands, restore Israel to the bounds as it was in the days of King David and rebuild the Temple of Solomon on Temple Mount. And without that no Jewish Messiah. That's part of the problem here, the Israeli government is full of mentally ill people who are mass murdering for the sake of an ancient fable. }}

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Post by halfwise Sun Apr 21, 2024 2:41 pm

So the US congress finally passed and aid deal for Ukraine, tethered to aid for Taiwan and Israel. Amazingly it also includes $9 billion in humanitarian aid to Gaza! (for the Brits, when American's say "billion" they mean a thousand million, which is more logical than the gap in nomenclature that holds in Britain.)  The speaker of the house was put in place by the MAGA movement, but broke with them on this, and due to the upcoming elections they may not throw him out to avoid looking weak before elections.  Quite a tightrope walk.

Edit: upon looking it up I find that Britain has officially adopted the more sensible american nomenclature: thousand, million, billion, trillion each going up by a factor of 1000 instead of thousand, million, thousand million, billion, thousand billion, trillion. Once you get to numbers that high you need to switch to scientific notation anyway.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/passing-ukraine-aid-accidental-speaker-225652132.html

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Apr 21, 2024 6:00 pm

{{ Ukraine are certainly in need of the help. But I still believe a diplomatic solution is possible and desirable here- but the West has to stop its ludicrous proposal to bung Ukraine into the EU and NATO or there will never be a diplomatic solution. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Apr 21, 2024 6:15 pm

{{ Big row brewing with the Met Police in London telling a Jewish guy he may be arrested for breach of the peace as he tried to pass through a pro-Palestinian rally - the police said he looked 'openly Jewish' (heh ad the skullcap etc) and that phrase in particular is being critiqued a lot alongside the idea that there are parts of London it's not safe for certain religious groups to go to, mainly Jews, when such protests and marches are on.

But I dont get the fuss. Have we forgotten what country we live in? There not being safe places to go because of religion is a staple of British life, has been for centuries.
Try wearing a 'I love the Pope' t-shirt, flying an Irish tricolour and a sign saying 'I hate King Billy and love the IRA' whilst passing through the followers marching in an Orange Walk- I'd give you a life expectancy about 2 minutes.
Exact same if I pulled on a Rangers top, the sash my father once wore, and a big sign saying the 'The Catholic Church is a Pedo Ring' and went to stand in the 'jungle' at Parkhead on on a home day for Celtic, I'd likewise expect to live about 2 minutes before being beaten or stabbed to death.
This country has had for centuries back and forth between different Christian religious groups that has meant there are simply some places you can't go wearing or saying certain things without consequences.  
Now it's happened to Jews too - well done now you're properly part of British culture and life, but you don't get special treatment for it, if there is a big march on complaining about Israeli actions don't go there wearing your full Jewish regalia. It's dumb. You wouldn't wear a meat coat for a stroll through the London zoo lion pen either.

The officer concerned told the Jewish man, "You are quite openly Jewish, this is a pro-Palestinian march. I'm not accusing you of anything but I'm worried about the reaction to your presence."
Quite right too - primary job of the police is to keep the peace. If I turned up a rangers top at Celtic Park, in the Celtic end I am totally y within my rights, I can go to any football stadium I wish, I have a right to dress as I please, and I have a right to any political or social statement I wish so long as it's not provoking violence- but I'd hope to God if anyone was actually stupid enough to do that the police would stop them, for their own good as well as for the general peace. The Policeman did nothing wrong here, he was doing his job but is now going to be hung out to dry for it and vilified in the press.}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed May 01, 2024 6:40 am

{{ Halfy been meaning to ask, but is the university you teach at one of those involved in the ongoing protests and stand offs with the police and Mayor? }}

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Post by halfwise Wed May 01, 2024 12:42 pm

Not as much as Columbia University; I think because our population is more diverse there's more sensitivity to the feelings of opposition sub groups. But last night a group of 300 students that appear to be led by a group from Columbia (it's walking distance from here, or two subway stops) showed up and appeared to try to break into one of the buildings. Police were called and dispersed them and arrested some. I suspect part of the attraction of taking over a building is the access to lavatories; a huge upgrade from tents. We got announcements that classes for the near future would all be held online and the campus is only open to essential staff.

One thing Covid gave us was the ability to switch online at the drop of a hat. I think the idea is to starve the protestors of an audience so they will abandon campus. It will probably work because the protests on our campus were relatively benign until a day or two ago.

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Post by halfwise Thu May 02, 2024 1:34 pm

A letter from our college president. I live only a block from campus and heard noise, I'm glad I didn't go to investigate or I may have inadvertantly gotten wrapped up in it. I think the college handled it appropriately. Note that none of our students were found to have broken into a building.

---

Dear City College Campus Community,

I write to you tonight with a brief update on activities that have happened on campus since we issued our remote posture email yesterday. I know that for many of you, the idea of an NYPD presence on campus is anathema. In the next several days, I will provide more details concerning what happened and why we took the decisions we did. I’ll also find a time in the near future to meet with faculty and staff in a town hall to take questions. For now, I’d like to present the facts as we know them.

For the last several days, we began to observe efforts by members of the encampment to prepare materials to breach our buildings–most strikingly, they had pried large rocks out of our campus walls and positioned them in front of the different windows of buildings fronting the quad. Students inside the encampment began to warn us that outsiders among them were planning to take over a building. Importantly, at that time, we had made no effort to dismantle the encampment or in any way restrict the protest activities of those inside the encampment.

At approximately 7pm last night, we received word that hundreds of protesters were moving towards the City College campus from the south. As they approached, a large group from the encampment moved to the front door of Shepard Hall and began trying to enter. Shortly thereafter, about 300 demonstrators arrived at the fence we had erected at 140th Street. Members of the NYPD who had traveled with those demonstrators took up positions on the outside of our fence, in support of the approximately 35 public safety officers we had serving across the campus.

As the arriving demonstrators engaged the NYPD outside our campus, a group from the encampment engaged our security officers from the inside of our perimeter, eventually managing to breach their protective line and join with members from the protest group who came to campus separately. After some scuffling, the demonstrators broke into a run heading for the administration building. Our security guards followed and prevented them from entering through the front door, but a contingent managed to enter through the back, undetected for a brief period.

Our public safety team eventually entered the building, and made a total of 31 arrests. Preliminary count is that no CCNY students were arrested as part of that group. Two public safety officers were sent to the hospital due to injuries and pepper spray related trauma. We will soon have more information and documentation of those events.

Later that evening, as more protesters moved to campus, and after NYPD broke up the encampment at Columbia, NYPD returned to our campus to prevent the additional protesters who were trying to breach the perimeter of the campus while members of the encampment here set up flares and massed near the 138th street gate.

What followed was several hours of chaos. While the NYPD chased demonstrators outside the campus, and CCNY campus security worked to contain protesters on campus. Throughout the next several hours, via bullhorn and in cooperation with some student government leaders, we conveyed the message that students wishing to avoid confrontation and possible arrest would be allowed to leave via the 135th street gate. By 11:00 p.m., to the best of our knowledge, no student remained on campus who wanted to leave. But a sizable demonstration remained, and at a time when our small and exhausted force of public safety officers needed additional support, I made the difficult call of allowing the NYPD to enter the campus and assist.

I want to be clear that since the beginning of this protest, City College never once attempted or threatened to dismantle the encampment, nor in any way infringed upon the protest activities. In fact, the letter we sent to the encampment yesterday morning, detailing all of the ways in which demonstrator activities endangered our campus community, reaffirmed the rights of demonstrators–including those in the encampment–to protest. The move to occupy our buildings was not, that is, a reaction to our efforts to displace or dismantle the encampment.

As I said, I expect to present corroboration of the various points I raised in this memo in the days to come. Some of you may still believe that, even granting the facts laid out in this memo, that our resort to external assistance was unacceptable. I will disagree.

I look forward to a full discussion of the events of these past few days in the very near future.

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Post by halfwise Sun May 19, 2024 2:32 am

This is hopeful. A member of the war council in Israel threatens to resign unless Israel modifies it's approach away from what he calls the way of fanatics.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/aid-pier-off-gaza-distributed-150735192.html

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