Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

[halfwise]

You're both right.

Israel is simply the lesser of two evils, but the west has supported Israel far more than it should because it's the most likely ally in a dangerous middle east.  And I'll add that Israel from the beginning has been more likely to try to do the right thing, but when boxed in both from outside and inside has made some very wrong policy decisions, like providing military protection to settlers in the west bank, or of course treating civilians nearly like combatants in the Gaza strip.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Former PM Cameron, now Foreign Sec, was in front of a Select Committee today and it was very telling, or rather what he wouldnt tell was telling!

'Lord Cameron repeatedly side-stepped questions on whether he had seen legal advice suggesting Israel had breached international law, telling the foreign affairs committee "I don't want to answer that question".'- BBC


Oh I wonder why he'd rather not say! }}

[Mrs Figg]

Scottish parents could face 7 years in prison if they deny their childs gender delusion. wow.


https://dailysceptic.org/2024/01/09/parents-who-refuse-children-gender-change-face-seven-years-in-jail-in-scotland/


"For Women Scotland, a campaign seeking to protect women’s and children’s rights in the country, expressed their concerns about the draft legislation.

“We have grave concerns that these plans will criminalize loving parents, who could face years in jail simply for refusing to sign up to the gender ideology cult,” spokesperson Marion Calder said."

“They will also hand activists and social workers unprecedented powers to meddle in family life, while having a chilling impact on therapists and counselors.

“If the SNP and Greens insist on pushing this through, it is likely to go the same way as the toxic self-ID and named person laws and be blocked in the courts,” she added.

well yeah, parents are no longer in charge, The Gender Cult is in charge. Peter Tatchell and his groomer mates must be pleased.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Um it's right wing media nonsense as usual, same as all the other previous overhyped nonsense the right wing press have claimed the SNP were going to do, if everything the right wing media accused the SNP of doing was true I'd be jailed for my speech and opinions on a daily basis. It's a nonsense.
A quick nosey into this quickly reveals the truth- these are proposals from a think tank, they are not even at draft legislation stage if they ever come to that. Secondary it's not actually about trans, the 7 year sentence is related solely for those forcing a child through gender conversion- its aim is to ban practices such as are seen in other countries where gay children for example are forced by parents into conversion therapy to 'make them' straight. 7 years would be the max sentence for such a thing, under these proposals.
What the right wing press have done is to take this and then extrapolate it out to imaginary stuff that's not even mentioned in the draft, such as parents being sentenced to 7 years because they don't let their son dress as a girl in the house. And that's just a nonsense, obviously so, shame on you for falling for this right wing propaganda nonsense yet gain Figg. It's almost like you just want to believe this stuff. }}

[Mrs Figg]

I am not 'falling for' anything. I am going off actual previous SNP policies like the 'named person' thing, that wasn't just a think tank was it, the self ID thing wasn't just a think tank was it. Anyone could think that you are ok with literally anything the SNP does, no matter how mad and damaging? policies so mad and damaging that the courts are forced to put a stop to it. Not a good look.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I am interested in what is law and what makes it to law. Politics throws up draft legislation continually, most never makes it anywhere. As to named person, never even made it to a vote let alone law, self id- well it never was self id that's another myth, but again never made it to law.
If all the right wing nonsense you have repeated here alleging stuff the SNP are doing to the poor children of Scotland and to curb all free speech in adults were actually true I'd be in jail by now for protesting against it. But I'm not in jail, they are just right wing scare stories to undermine the Scottish Parliament and none of it is actually true or real in the law. }}

[Mrs Figg]

No smoke without fire and calling everyone 'right wing' just because somebody criticizes the SNP doesn't fly.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I'm not calling it right wing because it's an attack on the SNP, I'm calling it right wing because it has no baring on reality and comes solely from right wing publications such as GB news, the Daily Mail, the Sun, the Telegraph and the Express - which are the papers which 'broke' the story, our at least made it up - all right wing, all Tory supporting, all unionists, all owned by the Murdoch's and their ilk.
I'm calling it exactly what it is.
If you want to go after the SNP on actual grounds there is plenty, they are a government, there are the ferries issue, the problems with infrastructure in rural areas, the drop in education standard, the questions over the funding of the party that linger, there is plenty of real stuff, not this drivel.
When you start complaining about the actual laws which really exist in Scotland which the SNP have introduced - free prescriptions free travel for young and elderly, free education to university level, baby boxes for every birth, most progressive tax system in the UK, increased childcare for single mothers, the actual laws they have made which have changed peoples lives- I'll take these posts a bit more seriously, for so long as you are just trawling the depths of the right wing press for cheap and obvious anti-SNP propaganda I shall continue to be dismissive of it as such.}}

[Mrs Figg]

fair enough

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Well I reckon the West, but mainly the US and UK, have made their second major blunder of this war, the first being supporting and arming Israel no matter what crimes they commit, the second was bombing the Houthis.
You can't win this way, the Saudi's have been bombing the crap out of them for years, all it's done is make them more defiant. I cannot believe both our foreign offices could have made such a miscalculation.
The BBC reporter who has been reporting, living and working in Yemen throughout the war with Saudi has a better grasp on the situation than our officials seem to have-

'The Houthis immediately vowed to respond. It is also entirely possible that pro-Iranian militias in Iraq and Syria will increase the action they are taking against the American forces in the region....I have spent quite a bit of time with the Houthis in Yemen and they are people who are highly independently minded. They will relish conflict with the Americans. They want to be part of this war. What has been happening suits both the Houthis and the Islamic Republic of Iran...The Houthis were then bombed by the Saudis from 2015 until the ceasefire came in over a year ago, so a fresh round of strikes is unlikely to intimidate them - they are used to it.
I don't think one single round of air strikes is going to do more than make them think yes, we are on the right track. They want to be seen as a fearless resistance to America and its Western allies, who also back Israel...The Houthis have said that if the war in Gaza ended and if supplies were permitted to enter, then they wouldn't be threatening a major international shipping lane.
Some critics of the American and British support for Israel say that an immediate ceasefire in Gaza would be a much better way to stop the Houthi attacks than bombing them.
There is the possibility that this US-UK action could prolong or escalate the situation with the Houthis, rather than shutting it down...They will want to carry out more attacks, to show that they are defiant and unbeaten....it seems unlikely that one round of strikes will have taken it out...Regular bombardment by the Saudis since 2015 did not appear to have had a significant impact on their capacity. Yemen is a mountainous country. If the Houthis, who have supporters across the region, are able to continue to threaten and fire on ships in some way then they will signal to their followers that they are not bowed by the West. '

So what happens when the Houthis strike back, which they almost certainly will, what happens when they attack the next ship? Or when their allies in Iraq take out a US base? When they launch a massive drone attack on Israel?
Have we learnt nothing from two failed Gulf Wars and utter disaster in Afghanistan? Why are we being dragged into this conflict instead of helping put a stop to it? The answer of course is Israel, the worst geopolitical disaster of the 20th century was trying to recreate a lost Israel by carving out other people's land to accommodate it.
If the US and UK are so keen on people getting their land back when its been lost to them for over a 1000 years why aren't they demanding Texas be returned to Mexico? That huge swathes of the US be returned to the native Americans in perpetuity? Why doesnt Britain give the Falkland Islands back to Argentina or Gibraltar to the Spanish? Those happened relatively recently in world history. Funny how we are so quick to give someone else's land and home away to Israel, but no one else is allowed their land back.

The root of the problem is of course the one no one dares say, there are a hell of a lot of mentally ill people there suffering under the mental delusion their imaginary friend is real and telling them what to do. It's long over due the sane half of the world stopped treating religion like anything other than it is, a mental health issue. A delusional state, a delusion that is the root cause of more death, hate and war than any other one thing, yet we let it grow and fester unchallenged, even encourage it which is particularly sick, you wouldn't deliberately encourage a mental delusion n someone normally, why should be acceptable just because you've claimed your delusional imaginary friend is a God? It's long past the point of acceptable behaviour.
And it's way overdue for the WHO organisation to count religion as a delusional state and a mental health issue. If you just switch out God, for 'giant space earwig' it becomes obvious what a lot of nonsense and how crazy it is, yet stick the word God in there and suddenly we are supposed to take their imaginary friend seriously? Yet its no less crazy and has exactly the same amount of proof and evidence to support it as the space earwig does.}}

[Mrs Figg]

Did the Space Earwig tell them to dig tunnels in New York basements?

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ It probably told the IDF to dig the tunnels under Gaza, did you know the majority of the tunnels under Gaza were dug out by the IDF? Yeah, they dont like to mention that one. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ A stark but honest assessment from the Saudi Crown Prince- }}

“The problem is not the occupied land, occupied by settlers. It is that the settlers have now occupied the Israeli government, and by that I mean the extremist settlers, the extremist settler mentality which is absolutist,” Prince Khalid told the BBC, adding that the main obstacle to finding a resolution to the conflict is now Israel."

[Mrs Figg]

I wouldn't really trust a Prince who likes to strangle and dismember his enemies.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ In this particular case they are our allies in this. There can be no peace in the ME without Saudi involvement. And while I am no fans of the Saudi Royal family they do know the region, its people and its politics far better than anyone in the West ever could.

Its hard to argue I think that Israel are not trying to wipe out Gaza and any Palestinians still there when their own government Ministers are saying so and deliberately saying no Palestinian is a civilian, they are targets, explaining why 70% of deaths so far are of civilian women and children- as far as Israel is concerned they are targets-

"It's an entire nation out there that is responsible"- Issac Herzog, Israeli President

"We are actually now rolling out the Gaza Nabka" (Nabka is a reference to the last time Israel stole half of Palestine, the word loosely translates as 'cleansing')- Avi Dittcher, Isralie Agricultural Minister

"We all have one common goal- erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth"- Nissam Vaturi, Deputy Speaker of the Knesset.

So it's hardly surprising when this is the crazed religious view from the top that the everyday soldiers of the IDF also see no distinction between massacring civilians and soldiers, they dont care, as footage smuggled out of the area showing IDF soldiers singing shows. The lyrics of this, seemingly popular chant/song seem well enough known they can all join in, they are-

"I'm coming to occupy Gaza and beat Hezbolllah
I stick by one Mitzvah to wipe off the seed of Amalek*
I left home behind me, won't come back until victory
We know our slogan, there are no "uninvolved civilians"

*Amalek is a bible reference it comes from Deuteronomy- "In the land which the Lord, your God, gives t you as an inheritance to possess, that you shall obliterate the remembrance of Amalek from beneath the heavens" The Amalek's were the people who were living in the area prior to the Jews turning up the first time and massacring everyone to steal it.
So we have religious nutjobs on both sides, and Israel wanting to wipe out an entire people, civilian and all because their imaginary best friend says it's ok, the lands theirs they have to massacre everyone else their imaginary friend says so.
Did I mention how this is a war being waged by the mentally ill for reasons which are clearly insane? }}

[Mrs Figg]

Look, they have been killing each other for thousands of years. They seem to enjoy it. There is nothing the West can do but support the least mad side, which may be a toss-up, but at least the lesser mad side doesn't want to murder us. The Houthi are another nest of hornets that need an El Salvador style maxi prison. Unless they start to pirate the tankers then send in the SAS, take them all out and let them get on with it. it's all we can do.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I suppose in one way it's good Israel are at least no longer lying about what they want to do, what they have done from the very start, they are just saying it out in the open and blatant now-

'National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir said, "the occupation of the (Gaza) Strip is necessary for the realization of the combat goals.”  - CNN

Anyone remember Israel said it had no intention of occupying Gaza? Anyone remember when they said they didn't attack the hospital, it was a Palestinian missile, then later admitted yes they did but it was a Hamas command centre so legitimate, then used that as the excuse to bomb, target, cut off from aid and supply every single hospital in Gaza, one by one? Anyone remember when they said the bombing of civilian, residential housing was an accident they were looking into? Or when they later changed that to Hamas fired rockets from there, and now no longer try to excuse it but just reduce entire neighbourhoods to rubble? Anyone remember when Israel said it abided by the laws of war and did not attack international bodies such as the UN or WHO, then bombed both organisations facilities and the refugee camps? Or when they told civilians to flee to safe zones through established safe routes, then bombed the routes and later the safe zones too? Anyone remember how they have denied the entry of aid since the start so that now starvation and disease are the biggest killers in Gaza whilst Israel traps the Palestinians within ever shrinking confines in southern Gaza with no way out and no help coming in?
Does the West remember any of this? Because I am starting to wonder.
America has bombed the Houthis three more times since the first warning, as was obvious it hasn't stopped the Houthis firing missiles at shipping. But then why are they doing it? What do they want to hit ships?
For exactly the same reason as 90% of the countries on the planet want, the 90% who voted at the UN and got vetoed by the US, they want a ceasefire. But the Houthis are persona non-gratis, they don't get a voice or a vote at the UN, so they make their vote through actions accompanied by a threat, ceasefire or we stop the  shipping through the only means we have, violence and disruption.
Maybe rather than us pointlessly bombing them, and them pointlessly bombing shipping just to show they are not cowed by us, which is the pattern emerging, the US maybe should consider listening to the 90% of the world + the Houthis and demand a ceasefire. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Britain's ludicrous hypocritical position on Yemen, at the taxpayers huge expense;

Since war broke out in Yemen with primarily Saudi, the UK has provided over £1 billion in taxpayer money in foreign aid to Yemen.
In the exact same period we sold Saudi £8.2 billion in weaponry to bomb Yemen causing the very humanitarian crisis there we give foreign aid to help with.
And now, along with the US we are bombing Yemen ourselves, at further cost to the taxpayer of course.
Presumably, once they've finished, they will send another billion or so of our money to help rebuild all the damage we just caused.

You couldn't make this up. }}

[Lancebloke]

I mean... the Houthis started firing missiles at international shipping routes. They aren't targeting ships that are anything to do with Israel and the conflict there. I am not sure why that should be acceptable really.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ It's not, but bombing a people who have been bombed to no effect for 10 years already is not going to help any, at all, it will make it worse however. And is. They do claim to be only targetting shipping that is allied to Israel, or going to Israeli ports.
And all they are asking for it is the exact same thing 90% of the rest of the countries in the world have already asked for, a ceasefire and the full entry of humanitarian and peacekeeping forces. The only people who don't want this to happen are Israel, who are committing the crimes, and the US, who funds the crimes. And between them they have vetoed it every time.

If the US was serious about stopping the Houthi attacks, or about not being seen as utter hypocrites by the rest of the world, the people they would be stopping are Israel. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ {I see it's now official, Netanyahu, war criminal at large, has announced he opposes any Palestinian state and all the land is theirs. Oh what a surprise.

' Israel must have security control over all land west of the River Jordan, which would include the territory of any future Palestinian state...'

So now it's officially a war to wipe out a people and steal the land they live on can we officially call it genocide now? And do we, the UK, still support this war and Israel? Are we going to continue to help pay for and arm Israeli's illegality now it's out in the open? Bet we do.}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Seems it's not enough for Israel to indiscriminately massacre Palestinians and drive them from their homes, they aren't even leaving the Palestinian dead in peace and respect-


'Israeli forces severely damaged a cemetery in Khan Younis in southern Gaza earlier this week, exhuming and removing bodies in what the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) told CNN was part of a search for the remains of hostages seized by Hamas during the October 7 terror attacks.
Footage of the burial ground showed the area bulldozed, with graves damaged and destroyed, and human remains left exposed, after the IDF conducted operations in the area.' - CNN

Desecrating graveyards is yet another war crime, one more for the Israeli list of atrocities we are paying them to commit. }}

[Lancebloke]

I dont disagree with you around support for Israel. I think they have been looking for an excuse to do what they are now doing and have gone well beyond what would be considered a reasonable response to the attacks back in October (which did deserve a severe response).

However that is irrelevant to the Houthi situation. They CLAIM to be targeting shipping relating to Israel but that is demonstrably false.

Just because I am unhappy that you are killing my friends in Cardiff doesn't mean I can walk in to my local supermarket and start shooting at people. I would expect consequences aligned to my actions.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Thing with bombing the Houthis it's like punishing the sea by raining on it, utterly useless. And in this case it has made the situation worse, entrenching anti-West sentiment.
The Houthis are stating their justification on only attacking shipping allied to Israel, now whether they are or not is not so important as that is their justification. If the conditions for stopping are a ceasefire, wanted by almost everyone else but Israel and America, then best way is to create a ceasefire. That way the justification for the Houthi actions is taken away, they'd have no legitimisation for their actions and would be properly isolated if they continued. Then ways of protecting shipping, if still required, can be considered. No doubt the Houthi will want something in return, probably in the end financial, but that's what diplomats are for.
As it is we are pointlessly bombing a people who are not even in the wrong on this one. }}

[halfwise]

"As it is we are pointlessly bombing a people who are not even in the wrong on this one."

Huh? If they were surgically bombing only ships headed to Israel that statement may be correct. But any country whose ships are being bombed have a right to retaliate, though you may disagree with the details of the method of retaliation.

I don't disagree that a ceasefire would provide means to resolve the Houthi situation. But when the Houthis begin bombing shipping they become enemy combatants, whether or not their cause is more just than those they bomb. Asking a nation that's having it's shipping bombed to not retaliate is senseless.