Re: We're all doomed! Doomed I say- the Corona virus thread for panicking in!

[halfwise]

It's very difficult to count infections accurately since it depends on whether people come in for testing.  Deaths are more accurate though it's a good point that attribution makes a difference.  So I don't think you can say by these numbers that one is better than another, but communication makes a HUGE difference.  The governor of New York State has done an excellent job of communicating facts and reasoning behind his actions.  As an educator I've watched his presentations with awe: he is a master.  Because of this the population has largely forgiven him for an early blunder in demanding that elderly homes take back infected patients from the hospital - a move that caused thousands of deaths.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ The communications in Scotland is definitly better, its crisp, clear and doesnt change all the time, and its driven home by advertising, posters and such everywhere.
Our tier system also seems a touch more nunaced than Englands- England is going into a 3 tier system, low, medium and high. Scotland has a 5 tier system from 5 (worst, equivelent to a full lockdown) to 0 (which is as near to normal as possible with just social distancing, hand washing and masks in public required). I feel 5 tiers gives more latitude for variances in regions of the country. England seems to find rural areas lumped in with urban ones in their system.

On the subject of english tiers the vote on it being implimented is coming up in the Commons later- with quite a few tories planning to vore against. But worse to my mind is Labours weasley poistion of choosing to abstain on the vote. I honestly dont understand this, this isnt a sit on the fence sort of decision (I should note the SNP are abstaining too, but thats because the legislation only effects England and their general rule is not to vote on stuff that only effects England).
But I dont know what Labour hope to achieve by abstaining- so they can say if folk dont like it we didnt vote for it? Starmer says he thinks the new measures are in the 'national interest' yet he wont put Labour votes behind it, allowing for the narrow but exisiting possibility Tory rebels will block it, which presumably Labour would not think is not in the national interest, but they are allowing for the possibility anyway? Cowardice. They cant hope to win a general election if they wont even step up to the plate to hit the hard balls when in opposition. Its more what I'd have expected from Corybn's Labour as he couldnt get off the fence, but Id expect better from Starmers Labour than a derilction of duty at a moment of national emergency.}}

[Mrs Figg]

Starmer is in a double edged bind with both tiers and brexit. He cant win no matter which way he votes. If he supports the government he looks weak, if he doesn't support the government he looks obstructive for no good reason. No matter what he will be criticised. Abstaining is their only other option, and that makes him look weak as well, but seriously he cant do anything in this terrible situation.

@Halfy, you are missing an 'O'

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I think abstaining is the worst way they could go. At least voting for or against gives folk an indiction of where and what you are standing for and your reasoning. Abstaining only tells people you arent grown up enough to make tough decisions and so not ready for government.
And given Starmer has been trying very hard to distinguish his Labour from previous Labour admins not taking this opportunity to show people what they stand for is a waste and not likely to gain him votes either way, those who oppose further lockdowns will be unhappy, and those who favour them will be unhappy. He wins noone abstaining and will only annoy one side or the other. I dont see the upside to it at all. }}

[Lancebloke]

I think the only thing he needs to do is make it clear why he has voted one way or another.

It should be simple maths, the bigger problem is [insert problem] as evidenced by [insert evidence] and so the vote is for the greater good, albeit not a choice I wanted to have to make.

Most people are switched on enough to accept good reasoning even if it doesn't do them any favours.

[Lancebloke]

Well... the UK has approved the Pfizer vaccine for emergency use.

Not sure how I feel about that. Surely they cannot have enough evidence this quickly to be sure that it is safe to use, but of it is being used on an emergency basis to begin with and offered to those most vulnerable then maybe it is worth the risk.

[Mrs Figg]

This is the best news all year, It will save thousands of lives.

[azriel]

This is what niggles me. Instinctively everyone wanted a magic wand to wave around but, now it looks on the surface that we have one I cant help but think, "its a bit soon". Will we develop side effects in the future that we wished we had waited a bit longer ? OR, is this pandemic not quite as destructive as JoBo had us believe & that a vaccine for this virus wasnt as intrinsically difficult to produce after all ? I have a naturally suspicious streak in me & sometimes that streak over rides common sense or facts.

[halfwise]

I think this is too high profile for drug companies to take a big risk on. The vaccines HAVE been through trials, though of course long term side effects are always a question. Maybe I'm being naive, but from what I've seen long term side effects from vaccines are rare or very mild. Short term effects of course will be caught by the trials, which will be watched very carefully.

[Mrs Figg]

millions are dying and the older you get the worse the risks. When there is a vaccine I will be grabbing it with two hands. I understand natural doubts but they can start to stray into conspiracy theories and discounting everything as a hoax. There is so much idiotic crap written about this vaccine and it is important to remember that big pharma wont be taking any risks, it would risk the prosperity of their companies, this is big bucks, they wont risk any scandals.
Forget what Johnson says, it is the scientists who are saying this pandemic is destructive, the thousands of dead are telling everyone its destructive. There are 70,000 dead people in the UK, that is the size of a whole town, just imagine a whole town dying. we have to take it seriously.

[Lancebloke]

Big pharma do take lots of risks. There have been major vaccines that have been withdrawn because they did cause issues... the original polio vaccine as an example.

This is a big risk because trials are only in the 10s of thousands and most problems tend to not show up until you get to the 100s of thousands and then over a long time.

This is also a new type of vaccine (mRNA) which has been studied for a little while but has never been used in real world, high volumes.

That being said, most of the shit on the Internet about this is scaremongering, but I am comfortable not being able to get this within the first millions of doses.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Well it starts getting rolled out in next couple weeks to health care workers- I know quite a lot of them so Ill be keeping my ear to ground over how it goes once they start receiving it. }}

[Mrs Figg]

let us know of any side effects Petty, such as sore arms or temporary fevers. It doesn't have any live virus in it so I doubt anyone will be getting cold symptoms like you can get with the flu vaccine. Its a completely new technology so it will be interesting to know how peoples bodies react.

[Lancebloke]

I would think some people would get a response like that. It is there to teach your body how to fight it, some elements of which are reactions such as inflammation and a temperature.

That is basically what my body did when I got whatever I got... it just went in to overkill mode even though the virus was already well and truly gone.

I would guess for most people they wouldn't feel anything but some will very likely have a more forceful immune response.

[halfwise]

reminds me of the new treatment for peanut allergy - trace amounts are introduced at first, then gradually increased until the allergic reaction is gone. But it has to be done by a specialist or a little too much could kill the patient.

[azriel]

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ We might be approaching the beginning of the end! }}

Some positive news - initial supplies of the Covid vaccine have now arrived safely in Scotland and are being stored securely. The first vaccinations are on track to be administered on Tuesday
- Nicola Sturgeons twitter

[Mrs Figg]

lets hope so

[azriel]

We'll have to go around with documentation to say we've been jabbed or we wont be aloud in shops & on buses. The paranoia in me smells dictatorship. I wonder what the Government sees as suitable punishment for non compliance over the vaccine ? There will be people that will not have the jab no matter what. Just when they thought it was all over -----

[Mrs Figg]

The people who refuse the jab will probably be refused entry on flights. Its their choice to put other people in danger, but they should be prevented from spreading the disease to other countries.

[Lancebloke]

Well, if the jab becomes available to everyone then people are really only putting themselves at risk in their own community. When it comes round crossing borders, we already have things like Yellow Fever certificates so no different to that.

On the "Dictatorship" comment... I am not really sure where that comes from. What about this makes you think that way?

[Mrs Figg]

On the "Dictatorship" comment... I am not really sure where that comes from. What about this makes you think that way?

It sounds like a conspiracy theory. This is not about dictatorship, its about public health and nothing to do with the government. Vaccination should be mandatory to allow us all to go back to normal as possible, those who refuse put us at risk of this dragging out for years, it means vulnerable people have to shield for years and denies them freedom. Vaccine denial is the height of selfish behaviour imo.

[Lancebloke]

Hi Figgy.

I was referring to Az's comment about dictatorship in my post.

But replying to yours, we don't force people to take a flu vaccine... why would we do it for this? Especially if this doesn't end up being a permanent solution and we need boosters or new vaccines for new strains.

I dont think you should ever force people to put things in their body.

[Mrs Figg]

Hi Figgy.

I was referring to Az's comment about dictatorship in my post.

yeah I know.

But regards the flu vaccine. This isnt flu, its 100% worse than flu. You don't get Long Flu, and flu doesn't attack all organs. Flu is purely respiratory and for the majority is not so bad, although it kills vulnerable people it is not so terribly infectious. Covid is way more dangerous. They don't shutdown the world for flu. Smallpox vaccines were mandatory because it was a killer, there is now no smallpox in the entire world, its no different to covid, if it isnt mandatory we will have to live with it forever. Do you want lockdowns for the rest of your life? I bloody don't. smallpox vaccines 'forced' all the people of the world to be vaccinated, its tough but it has saved millions of lives. Sometimes individuals just have to suck it up for the majority.

[Lancebloke]

Its not 100% worse than the flu at all. It is not a pleasant disease but for the vast, vast majority of people it is no worse than the flu (which is also not a pleasant disease for those that are badly impacted or die from it).

Once the vulnerable populatioms are vaccinated (as we do for flu) we won't see any more lockdowns as there is no need. People can then get vaccinated if they want to, which i imagine a very large portion of people will, and then only those that choose not to will have something to slightly worry about.

Smallpox was mandated because the mortality rate was about 30%. Covid-19 is about 0.06%

Regarding long covid, I think this is a psychological response to the whole situation. The brain putting itself in to protect mode the same as we see with sufferers of chronic pain, fatigue etc all over the world and already in bug numbers.

Hopefully this area gets a lot more funding for research as it has always been a big problem, it is just highlighted by the introduction of a new disease.