All New Who

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:23 pm

{{ The sound mixing certainly seems to have been a bit off of late, and your not the only person Ive heard complain Amarie about being unable to hear dialogue. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:58 am

{{ This probably counts as a spoiler, though its been officially announced by the BBC-
Spoiler:
}}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:39 am

Is there ay speculation as who will take over the role? I hope its a bloke. I heard it might be that kid who starred in Its a Sin. Don't know much about him, but he seems way too young.
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Post by halfwise Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:08 pm

Not familiar with It's a Sin, so I looked up the cast. If anyone is to be used from that cast, it's either Stephen Fry or Neil Patrick Harris.

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 14, 2021 7:24 pm

Spoiler:
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:54 pm

{{ Not got time for full review, but in short- boring, boring, boring, deriviative of Moffat but without the skill. Yaz and Dans part in this could be removed at no loss, just filler. The actual narrative could have been told in half the time and more starghtforwardly, its obscure for the sake of being obscure. Theres no real purpose to it. I expect the Ai's for this one to be interesting. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:41 pm

The other two characters (Dave Lister and girlfriend) are useless filler as well. and yes, it was boring boring boring.
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Post by malickfan Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:15 pm

The overnight viewing figures for once Upon Time was 3.76 million-which sounds low but is still holding quite steady, it seems to me in the UK at least New Who will always have at minimum core audience of 2.5-3.5 million who tune in every week I don't think the figures will fall much further (but maybe Chibnall will prove us wrong again...), judging by online reactions 'Flux' seems to have been more popular so far with fan audiences rather than the general public.

More concerning is the AI rating for the episode, which is 75 which I believe is the lowest ever score for a New Who episode...

I had assumed RTD would want to update the formula of the show and move towards a more serialised structure to bring the show back with a flasj, but the mixed response to Flux so far makes me wonder if the BBC will actually prefer a return to 12/13x45 minute standalone stories instead...afterall there's not much point in trying to shake up the show creatively if there's not many viewers left willing to give it a chance.

I haven't watched Flux but my parents have seen the 1st episode (not sure about the 2nd) and seemed to write it off as mostly a confusing slow mess-if you can't grab the viewers attention in the first couple of episodes then they won't stick aorund for a whole series...

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:32 pm

{{ My review of the latest episode is midcomposition (turning out to be longer than I expected, but the crabbit will flow with the buckie Nod drunken But thats a shocking AI and it is indeed the worst in NUwho history- another new record along side having now 4 episodes in a row with AI's all in the 70's.

I dont think this weeks episode is going to do anything to draw anyone else who isnt already watching into doing so.
This story is now at its midpoint, we've had about 2 and half hours worth of television, and if thats not enough to engage the audience in your story I doubt they are going to want to jump on now. And nor it seems are they going to want to jump on via catch-up as the catch-up figures have remained about the same as Chibnall last two series, which were another record as being the lowest in NuWho since the new system began (somewher ein Smiths run).

Next week we've got Weeping Angels who have topped a few polls for Who enemies people would most like to see again, so they may help a little, at least on AI- its hard to imagine it could go lower- but if the finale of this story is not spectacularly clever and satisfyng and is as messy as the rest has been, it may well do. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:34 pm

The more they use the Weeping Angels the less scary they become. Chibbers must be desperate for new ideas.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:48 pm

{{ I think Moffat used them quite sparingly really given how popular they were. In fact he only really used them three times across 8 series as the main story event. Blink, which was a low cost epiosde and Doctor light episode that relied on a small cast and a lot of scares in dark places. So when he came to bring them back he basically took the alien/aliens route. He brought an army of them back to life on a planet in a claustrophic setting with soldiers and did the Who equivelent of blowing them out the airlock at the end. Its aliens. But it works as it has good tension and some good wel written character scenes, and the supporting cast particualrly Father Octavious are good.
The last time was Angels Take Manhattan, Amy and Rory's exit story, whcih again I really enjoy. You have to accept a big enogh mass of Angels in every statue n the city can create a perception field big enough to prevent everyone noticing the staue of liberty going for a stroll but its emotional in the right places, its got jumps in the right places, a nice 1940's noir film style to it and a good ending to the Ponds time on the show.
But theres not too many places you can go with them save to where I think Cibnal will go, where he seems to go when he doesnt know how to go forward- backwards- I think we'll get the Weeping Angels origins by end of these six parts. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:59 pm

{{ Brace yourselves.....

{{ So, Once, Upon Time. Well that was, something.

Spoiler:
}}

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Post by halfwise Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:22 pm

Good lord.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:41 pm

{{ You think thats bad, you should try watching it. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:47 pm

Shocked  let me get tis straight.....Moffat is a better writer than Agatha Christie? .. cyclops  mind. blown.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:56 pm

{ Hah no. Thats not what I meant. I am talking solely about a very partcular type of story telling only, which even Agatha sometimes doesnt quite pull off as its so bloody difficult to get right. As in the Blue Train story. Moffat doesnt always nail it either, but he nails it more often than not. Same with Agatha actually. In fact they share a few things in comoon, such as both of them tendingto try to disconcert the reader by presenting them with a sitautions or characters that seem utterly unconnected or without telling the reader/viewer all thats going on or presenting it in a light that is likely to mislead. Also why when Mofftas Sherlock is good, its very good. He and Agatha structure stories and puzzles fairly similarly. I think in his Dracula the smart, ahead of her time uses her brain and bravery Sister Agatha is named as a nod.}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:14 pm

{{ Trying to work out just what is so wrong about how Chibnall is trying to do this. Why its so flat and lifeless a viewing experience.

Spoiler:

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Post by Mrs Figg Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:07 pm

For me, it boils down to depth and a sense of mystery, which is as rare as hens teeth to pull off. I will talk about RTD because he is my favourite. He manages to convey an inner depth to the characters, maybe that's superior casting, but its dialogue too, its the music, its the atmosphere, case in point, Badwolf, he builds up a story which grabs you. Its little touches of humour and wit which make you warm to the characters. Its Rose saying 'can you smell chips?' its Donna being so excited to be in ancient Pompeii. I mean, anyone would be in awe to go to these places in history.
RTD's two Doctors were instantly 'The Doctor', no questions asked, and very charismatic. The casting was perfect.
Chibbers got the Doctor wrong, the casting was wrong, the companions are as flat and boring as the dialogue, the story doesn't fizz with excitement, he demonstrated no new ideas, he rehashes other peoples work, its dull, plodding stuff. But worst of all is the fake, preachy, holier than thou shoehorning of real world identity politics which desperately tries to disguise the fundamental lack of originality. After all, its easy to trawl history for examples of colonialism, but it doesn't fit with a sci-fi story unless the whole premise is going back in history to right wrongs, like the TV show Timeless, which does a damn better job at it.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:14 pm

{{ RTD is less interested and less good at plotting than Moffat but better at characters than Moffat, thats just the bent of the nature of their wrting. But they can both deploy their skills to the same ends at their best.

If you take Midnight as an example for RTD- its a puzzle without a solution, because the solution and the puzzle is not what interests RTD its the reactions of the characters to it.
But he uses his talent in a similar way, just instead of getting separate stories we get individual examples of power in relationships. And to wider society. That is what it comes down too- whether that's Jethro and his parents forcing him to agree with them on throwing the Doctor out, or the Professor bullying his student, or the woman who the alien possessed who was clearly the weaker part in a relationship that went south. Or the hostess who saves them all without anyone ever thinking to ask her name or really even see her. And the alien itself that manipulates folk through an unseen pressure to their worst selves. Its all about different forms of peer pressure and visibility in society.

Point is just like Moffats each strand has resonance thematically with the next to complement and complete the whole.
Chibnall it seems is just not capable of writing at that level. }}

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Post by halfwise Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:27 pm

Hmm...sounds like the dream team would be Moffat outlining a script and RDT using it as a guide to write his characters into.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:56 pm

{{ Id say so, theres a lovely interview with Moffat and RTD following them both penning a novelisation of one each of their stories- RTD did Rose and Moffat did his 50th anniversary special Day of the Doctor. One character based, the other high sci-fi plot.
RTD enthuses his envy of Moffats plotting and doing all this huge epic high concept sci fi stuff whereas his is set in a shop. To which Moffat retorts by saying "yes, but your characters" before going on to show his obvious admiration for RTD's writing of character and people.
Its basically a mutual admiration society of two.
Sadly it seems to have vanished from youtube, but their friendship and admiration for each other is clear throughout. So there is hope with RTD taking over and effectively his old Who production team now the new production company making it agian that RTD will persuade Moffat to rerun to at least pen the occasional episode. Personally Im still holding out hope he is secretly cowriting the 60th with Moffat.}}



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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:00 pm

{{ This isnt the interview in question but it is a good example of them just being good mates and Who fans in an interview with Graham Nortonon on his radio show }}


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:59 am

{{ We now have the reaming titles for the last three epiosdes in the Flux story.

Village of the Angels. Survivors of the Flux. The Vanquishers.

I actually have some small hope for next weeks episode. On the trailer it seems more of a bottle episode, and more importantly its the only episode of these six Chibbers has only cowrittern rather than written. And its being co-written with Mxine Alderton, who previously gave us the Haunting of Villa Diodata (the Mary Shelley one). Despite its flaws one thing that was good in that episode was its gothic atmophere and the supporting character and dialogue was a notch up on the usual Chibbers fare of expositionaries. So for a what on the surface looks like classic Who base under seige terrirtroy- small isolated village Weeping Angels attacking, and a period piece, it may be playing to Aldertons talents. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:09 am

{{ Examples of how to do the sort of story Chibbers is failing to.

RTD first and Midnight, (contains full spoilers for Midnight) this first clip sets up the passengers on board a small transit vechicle the Docto is taking on a tour of a planet called Midnight. Note also how the Professor, whose narrative function here is exposition doesn't just do exposition, the manner in which he presents it also tells us a lot about him and what sort of a person he is. Even the small brief interaction with his student, when he asks her to put the next slide on and she does so but apologetically, like she is afraid to have made a mistake, informs on their relationship.



This next two clips are when things have gone wrong, and unknown alien force appears to have possessed a passenger and repeats everything anyone says, slowly starting to speak at the same time as they do- freaking everyone out so its all getting a bit tense.





By this time all the set up the first clip begins in establishing each person or group of people comes to the fore. After first establishing them in normal times we now see them in crisis and afraid, the same dynamics of personality and power but cast by the circumstances to be seen in a whole new light. Jethro's mocking of having heard his Dad's abstract pool story so many times and their rebuking of him for not sitting with them, or they cut him off in conversations seems harmless, even humorous in their commonality to the parent/teen relationship. But that same dynamic in a moment of crisis, where Jethro's views are instantly dismissed or ignored, his voice not heard, pressured into helping (that is the unspoken understanding behind why he chooses not to sit with his parents in normal times) now it's a toxic relationship of pressure and censuring.

It all of course comes together in the finale and its aftermath.



Note the composition of the shot of them all afterwards in the tram. Each original relationship is broken. The father sits alone at the front, the mother on the same side still but as far back form him as its possible to be, Jethro on the opposite side right up against the wall, as far away as he can be. The Professor and his student likewise are at opposite sides. All the relationships are broken. What each has had revealed to them, the exaggaration in crisis of what was always there between them all is now laid bare.

And the missing two are the gay woman who got possessed and who was having issues dealing with her recent breakup. And the hostess, one of only to women of colour, someone who was seen so much as just part of the service that no one even thought to treat her as a human being and ask her name in several hours of travel time.
Its no coincidence that on one level each of these characters represents minorities who are historically not heard or suppressed or condemned or persecuted, or all at once. And its not a coincidence as the themes of relationships, pressures from within relationships and from without in broader society, how such pressures can twist who we are into making us something terrible are played out in every dynamic to show different examples of such pressures throughout the episode.

And then we have the Doctor. Of everyone there he is the one the viewer already knows is utterly dependabe in a crisis. So first RTD strips him of his authority with the other passengers, one of the Doctors main weapons his ability to use words is then literally taken away by having an alien that steals his words and takes his voice from him. And lastly he is rendered immobile and unable to to do anything but witness their attempts to kill him. He plays no part in saving the day, the Hostess saves him. And his own tendency towards arrogance and boastfulness and being upbeat in the face of danger only exasperates matters rather than helps them.
For the Doctor and the viewer its a chance to reflect and to be given a reminder that for all his brilliance and knowledge he is not beyond being left in fear and powerless or having his own seeming strengths turn against him either. The Doctor makes mistakes. One of the problems with Chibnall's Doctor is she doesn't. Well she does, all the bloody time but the show either never acknowledges them as mistakes or worse like the end of Arachnids tries to play it off as Doctor saves the day triumph when she has just done something unnecessairly nasty and cruel. As a result there ar eno consequneces and over time therefore no sense of weight to anything she does. RTD and Moffat's Doctors make mistakes, but they have ramifications, either in plot or for the character and usuaully both.

The fact that the episode ends with the viewer left with no idea as to the answers- what it was, what it wanted, what it was doing, how it worked- with not a single question answered  doesn't matter. All the real questions asked about people and society and pressures were set up and answered, and its in the emotional satisfaction that the episode works and the dangling mystery only helps accentuate it; the pressures that shape us in society or families or work are often nebulous, out of our control and being done for reasons or motives we do not understand. So even not answering the mystery works in favour of the overall themes of the episode.
As such it all works as one it all comes together, it all feels right to the viewer and it all fits together.
And as a side bar its also how to use the sci-fi format of Who to explore broad social issues in a way Chibnall's clumsy shoehorning of topics can only dream of.

Chibnal's episode, whilst more timey-whimey does have the different character strands and relationships to work with. He just doesn't. All the stories are separate on every level save plot level. So though the plot elements may come together there is no interest or satisfaction in it because there is no emotional or thematic connection between them. All your left with is the writing equivalent of join the dots, only you don't even get to join them yourself, its just waiting for Chibnal to join them for you. And that's all there is.

Next having demonstrated how compared to RTD Chibbers is an amateur at the character themes, we'll use Mofffat to show how he gets all the time-wimey bit wrong too. }}

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All New Who - Page 26 Empty Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:40 am

{{ When your cat (Sisko in this case) becomes addicted to Doctor Who videos }}

All New Who - Page 26 20211119-063615

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