Re: All New Who

by Mrs Figg Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:34 pm

Spoiler:

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:13 pm

{{ Time to check in on 13's moral compass, see if its still utterly broken.

Spoiler:

}}

by malickfan Tue Nov 09, 2021 6:57 pm

https://www.doctorwhonews.net/2021/11/war_of_the_sontarans_appreciation_index.html

Flux: Chapter Two: War of The Sontarans had an Audience Appreciation Index score of 77.

The Appreciation Index or AI is a measure of how much the audience enjoyed the programme. The score, out of a hundred, is compiled by a specially selected panel of around 5,000 people who go online and rate and comment on programmes.

The figure is up a percentile on the 76 received by the series opener last week, indicating a higher appreciation amongst the programme commentators.

...is a rise of 1% actually a good thing? or is it too late for Chibnall to turn things round? Presumebly the panel selected is from a wide cross section of viewers/general public and not hard core fans...

IIRC the show back in the Tennant/Smith years largely averaged 82-88, Capaldi wasn't as popular with casual viewers but I think almost all of his episodes hit 80 or above, whereas with Jodie Whittaker the reverse seems true, the viewing figures have fallen but seem to be holding to a more steady pattern...unfortunately the low AI seems also a more steady pattern.

I no longer watch the show (do plan to catch up on the Jodie eps eventually though) but my parents do-My mum thought the first episode was alright, but my dad was a bit confused by the jumping around narrative and new characters, neither of them has been particularly impressed by the current era of the show and my dad feels Jodie may be miscast, they aren't hardcore fans of the franchise but tune in every week for a bit of light escapeism-they particularly enjoyed the Tennant/Capaldi episodes (and think highly of Matt Smith's performance but found the timey-wimey stories a bit hard to follow/unengaging, I'm guessing 'Flux' may prove similarly dull/confusing to them.

i don't know anyone else who still watches the show.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:08 pm

{{ ouch! I wasnt expecting it to be as low as that. Thats not a good sign the general audience is engaging with this story, which is particularly bad news as this story is all we are getting all series.
Thats 8 episodes now out of 23 Chibnal has failed to score a rating of 80 or higher. Thats bad, very bad. Worse even than the falling viewer figures in my view which whilst lowest ever for NuWho are not awful either in comparison to other programming. But the Ai's are.}}

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:36 pm

{{ malick I think the Ai count under 80 stands at-

RTD- 2 out of 60 episodes
Moffat- 1 out of 83 episodes
Chibnall- 8 out of 24

So not a good look for Chibbers. Thats a third of his output on Who doent seem to have connected with audiences in the same way previous Who did.}}

by malickfan Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:43 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ ouch! I wasnt expecting it to be as low as that. Thats not a good sign the general audience is engaging with this story, which is particularly bad news as this story is all we are getting all series.
Thats 8 episodes now out of 23 Chibnal has failed to score a rating of 80 or higher. Thats bad, very bad. Worse even than the falling viewer figures in my view which whilst lowest ever for NuWho are not awful either in comparison to other programming. But the Ai's are.}}

To be fiar I'm not entirely sure how/why people sign up to be part of the AI panel-surely you'd have to be pretty interested in TV overall to do it, and watch lots of TV?-many more causal viewers of the show like my parents only tune in each week for a bit of escapeism and often forget the stories by next year, they aren't fussed about complex stories or continiuty etc, just want some fun TV, so I'm not entirely sure there might not be a bit of bias in those AI figures.

On the other hand to get so many low figures over three consecutive seasons is a worrying pattern...at least with Moffat/RTD the low rated episodes such as Love and MOnsters/Heaven Sent dared to do something different and play around with the format.

I can't help but wonder if the consistent low ratings for the Chibnall era is purely down the stories being well, consistently dull...

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:49 pm

{{ Heaven Sent, despite being experimental in format still managed to score an 80 - Chibnal is failing to get 80 with basic story telling. Moffats only sub 80 score was for Sleep No More, another experimental style episode. }}

by malickfan Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:51 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ malick I think the Ai count under 80 stands at-

RTD- 2 out of 60 episodes
Moffat- 1 out of 83 episodes
Chibnall- 8 out of 24

So not a good look for Chibbers. Thats a third of his output on Who doent seem to have connected with audiences in the same way previous Who did.}}

On the one hand the show now has to deal with the rise of streaming services, gaps in production/budget cuts and is now in its 13th Series/17th year of production, I don't think the high viewing figures/AI of the Tennant years etc are really attainable anymore, the show is no longer fresh and I think many casual viweers have simply aged out of the show/lost interest in watching.

But when you put in like that its looks bad...it's bad enough to loose millions of viewers but arguably much worse to get low AI ratings from the hardcore who still tune in week after week.

Definitely remiscent of the Colin Baker/Mcoy years i.m.o...maybe Jodie will get a chance to redeem the 13th Doctor doing Big Finish audios one day...

by malickfan Tue Nov 09, 2021 7:57 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ Heaven Sent, despite being experimental in format still managed to score an 80 - Chibnal is failing to get 80 with basic story telling. Moffats only sub 80 score was for Sleep No More, another experimental style episode. }}

Yeah that's the point I was making, both of those episodes played aorund with the format/structure of the series with mixed results and put off some of the general audience-but at least they were experimental and the writers admitted they knew a mixed reaction was likely, Chibnall until recently seemed happy to turn in episode after episode of dullness, if he couldn't make a basic story work I'm not convinced a 6 part storyline will bring back lost viewers.

My parents didn't like Heaven Sent because they found ti too complicated/unusual-but they didn't actually consider it poorly made, both found Sleep No More more enjoyable but nothing special.

Doctor Who is a show that can often veer between brilliance and utter crap, but in recent years it's seemed to be mostly middling and predictable. I'd take something like The Web Planet, Warriors Gate, Love and Monsters over the chibnall stuff any day, give me an episode that makes me feel annoyance or dissapointment rather than mere indifferent or boredom...

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:06 pm

{{ Well its another record for Chibbers- the first time in NuWho there have been three episodes in a row which failed to get 80 or over- the last two and the last special. If he doesnt reverse it next week thats going to be a record he will be extending and Im sure the BBC dont want to see that.

Whilst its absolutely true that viewing has changed drastically since Who came back, and its very rare, capture the moment here and gone quickly dramas, that can pick up anything like close to 10 million. In terms of audience share and where its sitting in or around the top ten programmes for the period its not doing much worse than it was during the Tennant years.
But that was true of the Capladi era, which also saw a drop off in overnights- similar to this era- with audiences ranging between the 3 million to 5 million mark.
But whilst folk werent watching as much on broadcast Capaldi era had solid time shifting- usually putting on an extra 2- 3 million on average.
Jodies era only time shifts about 1-1.5 million.
And only 1 Capaldi era Ai was below 80. So those who were watching generally enjoyed what they saw.

So what it seems to say about Jodies Doctor is less overall folk are watching, but about the same percantage of audience share as before (fewer folk are watching broadcast tv in general) but out of those still watching fewer are liking what they see on a more regular basis and folk are not feeling inclined to catch up on it and watch in their own time either. Which is the main difference besides Ai with Capaladi era- fewer were watching on the night, but lots were still keen enough to see it to watch at their conveyance. They just arent bothering with the current show.}}

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:10 pm

{{ I agree Malick- I prefer it and am far more forgiving when the show fails doing something experimental, interesting or unique than when it fails just doing the basics (the Olympics episode with the girl who draws people out of existence and the squiggle monster for example is in my view far worse than Love and Monsters, L and M tried something different that didnt quite come off, squiggle monster was just badly written, performed, conceived and realised. }}

by malickfan Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:33 pm

Makes me wonder what RTD has got planned for his second stint as showrunner, the first time round he was never afraid to experiment and really knew how drum up publicity for the show, 12 years on he's changed and improved as a writer, I don't think he'll make the same mistakes Chibnall has-at the very least I think he's agreed to return because he's got some generally new and exciting ideas to refresh the show, 'New-New Who' if you will.

By the way, can I ask how is John Bishop's acting in the show so far? I rather like his work as a comedian but he dosen't seem to have done much dramatic acting before, also wondering how his strong Scouse accent is going down with foreign audiences...

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:40 pm

{{ He's...passable.The accent is laid on thick so not sure what overseas viewers will make of it, and he is slightly patronisingly written, both as working class and as a Liverpudlian- he's skint, lives alone on bread line, volunters at a food bank and has over the top Brookie style comedy parents, Anfields had a couple of mentions and he's so pro-Liverpool he sneaks into a museum he doesnt work at just to up Liverpool to the tourists.
I think if they did a Scottish character and wrote so many stereotyepes into them Id be quite offended, and inclined to sue! }}

by Mrs Figg Tue Nov 09, 2021 10:59 pm

It looks like Chibbers has taken out RTD's playbook and tried to follow the recipe. Take one working class person, add two chirpy comedy parents, stir in some 'funny' bants, and serve.
As soon as I saw the mother I thought 'Jackie', but this mother and father are some people I do not want to see more of. I thought the whining carping dialogue between the parents was highly irritating. All they did was slag each other off, which could get tiresome pretty quickly.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:30 pm

{{ Well of course they slag each other off and fight, thats what Scousers do after all Smile

The Dan stuff does at times lean more than a little towards parody and Harry Enfield Scousers territory. }}

by Mrs Figg Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:19 pm

I reckon there would be a full scale twitter war and mega fallout in the national papers if they made those Scouse sketches nowadays. You would have the mayor of Liverpool marching in the streets.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:35 am

{{ Thing is its the same stereotype being played on and both times for comedy, the Scousers are ridiculously exaggerated fighting Scousers, Dan's parents are milder form of it- but its same stereotype played for laughs. Difference is Enfields are supposed to be an exaggarated streotype played for laughs they are in a comedy sketch show, Dan's parents are in a sci-fi/fantasy drama.}}

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:45 pm

yep, context. That reminds me of Jason Manfords skit about a Mancunian going to Liverpool.

by Forest Shepherd Sat Nov 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ Heaven Sent, despite being experimental in format still managed to score an 80 - Chibnal is failing to get 80 with basic story telling. Moffats only sub 80 score was for Sleep No More, another experimental style episode. }}

Doesn't give me much confidence in the rating system if Heaven Sent, the best episode of that season, didn't score significantly higher than the tedious garbage that was Hell Bent, it's follow-up.

But then the recent low-scores prop my confidence back up... Except they should be lower in my opinion.

by halfwise Sat Nov 13, 2021 5:06 pm

Is the problem the scoring system, or the general public that the scoring is based on?

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:08 pm

{{ OOh I didn't know forest you were one the Hell Bent hate crowd, they are normally the Clara haters- personally I think its the perfect thematic episoode for that series ending and their Doctor/companion arc- that entire trilogy- from Face Raven to Hell Bent is my favourie three-parter in Who.

Halfy, from wiki-

'Since 2005 the panel has been recruited and administered online by GfK NOP, for the BBC Audience Research Unit as a daily survey called Pulse, a panel of around 20,000 people (16+) who are invited to complete a survey every day to say what they have watched and listened to, and what they thought of each programme. Pulse measures a wide range of BBC and competitor stations. The daily reporting panel is weighted for age, social grade, sex, presence of children, region and the household digital type on a daily basis to ensure it is representative of the UK as a whole. The main Pulse measure, the AI or Appreciation Index, is obtained by respondents being asked to mark out of 10 each of the programmes they watched or listened to the previous day, where 10 is the highest score and 1 the lowest. The average of all these marks out of 10 for a programme is then multiplied by 10 to give an Appreciation score (AI).' }}

by Mrs Figg Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:24 pm

Well I am looking forward to tomorrows episode, which makes a nice change, just hope Chibbers quits the shoehorning, and it should be ok.

by halfwise Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:29 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
'Since 2005 the panel has been recruited and administered online by GfK NOP, for the BBC Audience Research Unit as a daily survey called Pulse, a panel of around 20,000 people (16+) who are invited to complete a survey every day to say what they have watched and listened to, and what they thought of each programme. Pulse measures a wide range of BBC and competitor stations. The daily reporting panel is weighted for age, social grade, sex, presence of children, region and the household digital type on a daily basis to ensure it is representative of the UK as a whole. The main Pulse measure, the AI or Appreciation Index, is obtained by respondents being asked to mark out of 10 each of the programmes they watched or listened to the previous day, where 10 is the highest score and 1 the lowest. The average of all these marks out of 10 for a programme is then multiplied by 10 to give an Appreciation score (AI).'

Well there you have it. It seems like the rating system is carefully administered, so if you disagree with the results it means a mismatch between the general population and yourself, not a fault with the BBC. Except that a publicly funded station should strive to elevate rather than cater to the average.

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:33 pm

{{ I would say RTD and Moffat era did very well on Ai, 99% above 80. And Chibnal era has done terribly on Ai's with 7 out of 24 episodes under 80. Id say that was fairly accurate at representing the general publics feelings towards the different eras of the show as well as what folks on here have reflected.- that Chibnal Who has not been up to scratch or standard. }}

by **Amarië** Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:20 pm

Malick wrote:, also wondering how his strong Scouse accent is going down with foreign audiences...

We use english subtitles. The Scuse accent is one thing, the general mumbling of the show and muffled techno time babble is another. F.eks the Doctor keeps talking about "the Flocks" (flux), so... Subtitles.