Re: More Hobbit pictures | SPOILER THREAD

[Mrs Figg]

I was talking to a photographer friend the other day about light and he said that its a good idea that they are filming in NZ because for one thing the weather is crap in the UK and it filming would have taken longer, and also because there is less pollution in the Southern hemisphere the light is cleaner and crisper, also in NZ there are more days with clear blue skies, he said its either many days of blue sky or cloudy not that dull grey smoggy stuff you get in the UK and there is more chance of getting good weather there, so it looks like there are good reasons to film in NZ for the light alone. Plus he said if they had filmed in a Meditteranean country for example it would have looked wrong as the light is more yellow than the bluer light of the UK, but that the light in NZ is not very far removed from the UK. whether he knows his stuff or not, I dont know, but he has been to NZ so I trust what he says.

[halfwise]

This is the sort of countryside Tolkien grew up in and he was thinking of when he wrote about the Shire.

Sorry Petty, but that video looks every bit as scruffy as what was seen in LoTR. I'm not convinced yet. And remember, Tolkien described it as an age with a 'little bit more green', and I don't think he just meant the ratio of town to woodland.

[Pettytyrant101]

Was suprisingly hard to find a decent video- that was best of a bad bunch- I was thinking more of the genral landscape, its forms and shapes, little woods, lanes and meadows- none of wehich PJ's has. Its just plonked in a big field.

Mrs Figg it is true its harder to get good weather (hence Hollywood becoming so popular to make films for so long) and I thnk shooting the Minas Tirith stuff in mediterrean ilight would be perfectly suitable given they are at similar latitiudes. As it si the entire journey Pj depicts, supposedly covering from a northly to a mediterrean latitude the lightining is exactly the same through out because its all actually shot at the same latitude more or less.

[Mrs Figg]

well if you notice, Ithilien does have a more golden light than say Rohan.

[Pettytyrant101]

Yeah and I can show you the setting for it in After Effects!

[halfwise]

yeah, there should have been more footpaths and little walls. I think the lanes, paths and walls they DID show looked about right, but I see now what you mean about it not looking in lived in enough.

[Pettytyrant101]

The english countryside has a very particular, rolling hills, meadows, litle lanes and walls, woods and streams feel and look to it- exactly in fact as Tolkien describes the Shire- seems mad to me when the actual landscape he is describing physicaly exists not to shoot there but instead to go to the expense of trying to recreate it somewhere completely wrong in terms of climate and fauna and lighting.

[Norc]

I just have to say Mrs Figg made a very valid point. And one cannot argue that NZ has a varied landscape. Too me, filming a landscape which is supposed tp look raw and old, NZ is just perfect. ok. The shire doesn't look "english" enough, but it is done pretty well and the hills are just gorgeous and perfect.

[Ally]

I'm not sure if I'm remembering this right, but somewhere in the documentaries included in the EE they mention the process on choosing location, and while they would have loved to film in English-esque countyside, the restrictions placed by the way infrastructure meant that finding suitable filming locations just wouldn't have been practical. Whereas as NZ has massive diversity in locations (woods, mountains, rivers) in a relatively small area of land.

I think if Tolkien had any grounds to complain (and let's be honest, he doesn't ) I don't think it would be the NZ countryside!

[Norc]

good point, Ally. NZ isn't the worst place they could've picked. it's the best you could pick i believe.

[Pettytyrant101]

Norc the hills may look gorgeous, but they are not perfect if one is being accurate to what Tolkien was writing about. The rolling meadowed, tilled fields of England with their tended copses of woodlands and streams are very distinctive. NZ's do not really look anything like them. Nor do the hills of PJ's Shire.

Ally- I could list to heaven the amount of UK tv dramas from Robin of Sherwood to Downton Abbey which miraculous seem to be able to find locations without a problem. That excuse does not wash.
And I am not suggesting shooting the entire film there- just the exterior Shire location. But now I come to think about it the north of England and the lowlands would have been perfect for any other northly location too, which covers Bree, Midge Water, Weathertop, the Ford and Rivendell.
The entirety of the the first half of the first film in fact would have been more suitably filmed in the UK before moving the location shooting southward into mainland Europe (Alps of course) for Misty Mountains Moria and Lothlorien. And there are no shortage of large rivers in Europe either.
I can understand PJ just wanting to do it all in his home town and country, but I dont think it was the best decision for the accuracy of the look of the films.
And before anyone goes on about how gorgeous it all looked- there is no denying NZ is stunning and beautiful and was excellently shot and captured on film-but thats does not make it the best choice for matching the books world in my view.

[halfwise]

there is the problem that more people are familiar with specific alps and rivers than with the New Zealand mountains and rivers. It would have been rather jarring for most people to say "I didn't know Redhorn was actually the Matterhorn!"

[Elthir]

Plus Tolkien himself did depict 'The Hill, Hobbiton across the Water'.

I assume someone on the Jackson team had internet access to possibly illegally posted pictures of old Tolkien calendars, if not the actual calendars.

[halfwise]

[Pettytyrant101]

Oddly if memory serves PJ's hill is the other way around, in that the road winds up fro the left not the right- and I mean odd because flipping the plate is not exactly unknown in films, scenes are flipped all the time. And look at the size of Bag End- now thats a Manor Hole! The entire top of the Hill- PJ seems have decided to go wih a cosier, smaller Bag End than the sprawling dwelling Tolkien has.

Halfwise- I would have shot in the Alps but the Rehorn would have been cgi if it was me, so I could get the light striking it and its stone turning to red- its the iconic description of the mountain- its how it got its name and Pj of course didnt bother showing it except as a snowy slope.

[Mrs Figg]

I actually think as Norc said, that NZ has that wild and old medieval looking atmosphere, kind of unspoilt and just perfect for a fantasy film. Everyone says that NZ is very English looking in parts anyway, those rolling hills of the Shire are just like the ones in the Lake district and parts of the Cotswolds. I think the Uk is very familiar and the point that was made by Halfwise is right, we would recognize places, its too well documented. If you went to Scotland to film the mountains say for example round Rohan and Helms deep you would know it was scotland. Its much better to have an unknown landscape. For ages I thought the trees of the Shire were fake, but they actually look like that, great! I am also glad PJ never filmed the tropical looking flora like they did in The Legend of the Seeker, there it was painfully obvious it was NZ, so he was very clever really. NZ was one of the great things about LOTR.

[Pettytyrant101]

I wouldntr advocate shooting more than northenr stuff in the north. England for shire, n. england for weather hills etc- rohan etc would be europe as its notably further south -sure there are a million places noone would recognise any better than they would NZ. And all the little subliminal things- the light being different as they journey, the flora altering as they go etc would give a much greater sense of actual journey as you get from the book.

[Norc]

I'm woth Mrs Figg on this one, though I do see ur point petty, i just don't agree with it. Now. Back to studies.

[Kafria]

If you look at the pic Halfwise has added I actually think the original point is well made.

PJs hill falls down because of the lack of gardens and granduer of the hole, it is meant to run on far enough into the hill that there are numerous cellars and pantries. If you look at Tolkiens pic below bag end there are two or three neatly hedged and trimmed garden areas with field below them (and above the holes further down the hill). Even clearer each of the lower holes has a very clear garden to the front of it. There is a very 'middle england' feel to it, - that is of the 'tamed and pretty' nature that you find in many an english village.

[Norc]

okay, so going of topic here, I didn't want to make a whole new thread. I have to tell you a story of my brilliant sub-consious and what it is able to pick up of rubbish facts.

So I was doin' me homework, when I suddenly heard a distinct, very british accent on the telly, yeah, so I turned my head and I recognized a face. I was like immediately like "hey, mom, that dude plays one of the dwarves!" and then, out of nowhere without thinking I said "he's name is James Nesbitt". then I stopped for a second. How did I know that? Cause honestly, who bothers to learn all the 13 names of all the 13 actors who plays all the 13 dwarves? I certainly hadn't bothered. So I googled and HELL YEAH!!! I was right!! Vicory, man!! It was dear Bofur with that mongolian hat!

so cheers to my wonderful subconcius which pics up rubbish and fun fun-facts and non-important knowledge which rarely comes handy (well, only to prove a point... like I'm a geek)..

please, guys, give me some applaud!

[Pettytyrant101]

Well done Norc you've sucessfully filled your head with useless trivia!

[Norc]

now I can die happily the creepiest thing is, that I think I recognized him by his voice, from the videoblogs.. but jeezz.. they don't talk much, yet my super mind just auto-saved it on my hardrive :S

now, back to serious studying!

[Mrs Figg]

well with a memory like that you are sure to pass your exam, thats one consolation.

[Eldorion]

Oddly if memory serves PJ's hill is the other way around, in that the road winds up fro the left not the right- and I mean odd because flipping the plate is not exactly unknown in films, scenes are flipped all the time. And look at the size of Bag End- now thats a Manor Hole! The entire top of the Hill- PJ seems have decided to go wih a cosier, smaller Bag End than the sprawling dwelling Tolkien has.

Tolkien gave varying descriptions of the road that goes around The Hill, which is why you see maps and drawings depicting it both ways. Also, PJ's Bag End is closely based on John Howe's, which is itself fairly close to Tolkien's drawings. Keep in mind that in the drawing you're seeing Bagshot Row as well as Bag End. Incidentally, if you're looking for nitpicks (because let's be honest, that's what most of this is) about PJ's Shire, then you can criticize The Hill for being too small and Bagshot Row for disappearing. But I think Bag End itself is well-done except -- apparently -- for those gardens.

[Pettytyrant101]

It is perhaps difficult to fully convey outside of the Uk what a well tended, neat, ordered garden means on these isles. Its social, cultural. It evokes certain images and thoughts and thats getting it second hand as a Scot- its even stronger for the english.
Tolkien very much conveys this, it really is hard to overestimate the importance visually of those sort of gardens in Tolkien's Shire and all the under the surface things that says about the land and its inhabitants.
And only the right hand side is Bagshot Row- Bag End still takes up the entire top part and seems to go right round, probably to more GARDENS!