Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

[halfwise]

[Mrs Figg]

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Saw this on facebook- and so fitting Ive been chuckling about it since   I give you- our great ruling class- nothing changes }}

[Mrs Figg]

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Just listening to Israel PM's speech as he opens the US Embassy and finding it hard to stay listening to it as it utterly despicable so far-full of triumphalism, dubious historical claims, had the cheek to call back to the founding of Israel as a great day and failed to mention the Israel of today is made up of a lot of stolen Palestinian land and homes. Spouted triumphalism stuff about Israeli forces, even as at least 41 Palestinian protesters are dead on the border protesting, at least 3 children among them.
I'm sure Trump will strike an equally triumphant note and ignore the dead Palestinians too.
Oh and the whole thing ended on him claiming all of Jerusalem is their capitol and will be forever- which puts a final nail in the peace talks process, and as he also continually referred to America as Israels greatest friend that does rather throw any chance of the US being peace broker out the window too, as quite rightly they cannot be trusted to be impartial or fair. So what is the US plan here long term? Have they abandoned peace? Is it let Israel go to war with Iran and take over all the area and screw the Palestinians? Is America even interested in peace any more? Does anyone know? }}}}}}

[Mrs Figg]

I 100% agree with you Petty. Israelis seem to have forgotten history, you cant build a culture based on the annihilation of another race. it beggars belief. I cant stand listening to that evil garbage either.

[halfwise]

Is America even interested in peace any more? Does anyone know?

There's a difference between America and Trump's America. It's a very polarized country right now.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{A fair point Halfy- but best when I speak of the US and America in terms of its foreign policy to assume I mean the US government not all its people, just as I have severe issues with the Israeli government, not all its people, when I say Israel. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{A summing up of international reaction form todays UN from the BBC-

'Palestinian UN envoy Riyad Mansour said: "We condemn in the most emphatic terms the odious massacre committed by Israel in the Gaza Strip."
He called for a halt to Israel's military operations and a transparent international inquiry into what he said was a "brutal Israeli attack on Palestinian people who expressed their resistance".
He said it was "a war crime, a crime against humanity".
Mr Mansour criticised the UN for not pursuing inquiries in the past, saying: "How many Palestinians have to die before you take action? Did they deserve to die? Did children deserve to be taken away from their parents?"

Danny Danon, the Israeli envoy to the UN, said the events at the border "were not demonstrations, they were not protests, these were violent riots".
He said that Hamas had "taken the people of Gaza hostage".
"They incite people to violence, place as many civilians as possible in the line of fire to maximise civilian casualties, then they blame Israel and come to the UN to complain. It is a deadly game they play at the expense of innocent children."
He added: "When they say day of rage they mean day of terrorism; right of return means the destruction of Israel; peaceful protest means incitement and violence."

US ambassador Nikki Haley defended the level of Israel's use of force, saying: "No country in this chamber would act with more restraint than Israel has." She said the US "deplores the loss of human life" but laid blame on Hamas, saying: "Make no mistake, Hamas is pleased with the results from yesterday"

Germany, the UK, Ireland and Belgium all called for an independent inquiry. UK ambassador Karen Pierce said: "The volume of live fire used in Gaza yesterday, and the consequent number of deaths is distressing and cannot be ignored by the council"

Ireland summoned the Israeli ambassador to express its shock
Turkey told Israel's ambassador to temporarily leave. Israel did the same to the Turkish consul in Jerusalem
French President Emmanuel Macron told Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu in a telephone call that civilians had the right to protest peacefully
Kuwait is preparing a draft document aimed it said at "providing international protection for civilians".



Problem I have with the Israel Ambassadors position is that his description of events does not seem to match what I see in the footage from the border. Or in the photographs taken by Western journalists.
Whilst I have no doubt Hamas used the event for maximum political effect and probably had people in the crowd to help whip things up, nevertheless these were not people firing missiles into Israel or storming the walls with guns, they had slingshots and in the very worst areas pipe bombs and molotovs which couldn't even reach the Israeli lines or often get over the wall, whilst the Israeli's had, a safe distance away by definition, snipers by which they were taking people out, and drones to drop tear gas on crowds- sadly including the crowd of civilians containing a mother and her baby, the tear gas killing the baby.
So hard to see the video or photographic evidence matching Israelis description of a desperate attempt to violently cross the border that had to be repelled with the use of indiscriminate fatal force. Here for example is someone the Israeli forces killed-

An amputee named Fadi Abu Salameh, also known as Fadi Abu Salah, was killed near the border fence in Khan Younis on Monday. Fadi, who was 28, lost both of his legs in 2008, his brother Hani told CNN on Tuesday. "He does not pose a threat to himself, no less others," Hani said. "How could he be targeted? His blood falls squarely on the shoulders of the Israelis."

I can see where such a man would have been a threat to their wall, scaling it like Rambo, if Rambo had a wheelchair. He must have so terrified those poor distant Israeli snipers they had no choice but to shoot him dead. }}

[halfwise]

Over here the news has been glossed over as a sort of expected side event to the relocation of the US embassy. Really almost no reporting from US news sources.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I noticed that- almost no reporting of the UN meeting today- or that most countries were pretty harsh on Israel for it and good chance there will be an investigation. CNN have coverage on their international main page but its buried 3/4 of the way down the US page and for most of today FOX didn't have a single story on the Palestinian deaths, and then when they did it was a piece accusing the New York Times of anti-Semitism for, as far as I could tell, reporting it had happened. Fox also never call the Palestinian protestors protestors- only rioters and or Hamas terrorists.
Whereas its been a main BBC story, and their lead most of the day, and even now its still high up, third story on the page.}}

[chris63]

[Pettytyrant101]

[azriel]

Oh how I love that guy !!! Cracks me up every time !

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Good interview form Jon Snow on Channel 4 news with the Israeli Ambassador }}

[chris63]

[halfwise]

How true.

[azriel]

Too dam true !!! Ive yet to believe any of the nest lining go grabbers are really there to help "us". Any of them feel any pity or want to push lines & succeed for "us" ? Nah, none I feel. Maybe one or two did at the beginning of their first days in Parliament but, as the days wore by & the scams rose to the surface all that bravado shot straight out the window well & truly, bye bye grovelling little minions who moan day & night, Hello safely squirreled away, easy come by, accounts & a beautiful pension at the end,

[Lancebloke]

Well... it is not an entirely accurate representation of the truth is it.

Debating the Afghan war for example. That had happened several times in general debates and the actual vote had 324 responses.

I believe one of those bottom pictures is actually a PMQs and has nothing to do with a vote.

I also think the Palestine one was a non- binding vote and so you can imagine why people may have better things to do in their own constituencies.

A lot of them are still a bunch of money grabbing idiots but I prefer to paint a truthful picture rather than get caught up in someone's fake news campaign!

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{ Those sort of pics are rarely representative Lance- our system doesn't really work that way. Some things are done more t committee level than in the Chamber where all the MP's relevant to the topic are resent and participating. If the debate is about something you already know how you are going to vote, either from a party whip or your own conscious then you may well skip the debate for constituency work and just show up for the actual vote section.

Where I have real issues with the Commons is in its costs- tax payer subsidised food and bars for example are a disgrace- most workers do not get tax subsided food and drink at their work places- hell most work places dont come with several bars open all day for that matter. Then there are those who turn up just long enough to claim their daily expenses allowance but dont actually participate- can be worth checking your local MP's stats before voting to see how often they have bothered to vote and how often they have contributed to debates and where they are in yearly expenses in comparison to other MP's.  }}}

[Lancebloke]

Petty - Agree. There are lots of factual things to get angry about. It is when non-factual things come up that just make a murkier situation a bit murkier that i feel the need to call bullshit.

Even dickhead deserve to have the truth about why they are a dickhead made clear rather than unfounded accusations.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ saw a story reported on fox about a cop punching a wayward drunk young lass (20 I think) who was illegally drinking on a beach- she resited arrest to a degree on the subject of which this statement stood out to me-

'Wildwood Mayor Ernie Troiano Jr. told The Philadelphia Inquirer Sunday that the police soon would release body camera footage showing Weinman insulting the cops and spitting on them.
“It wasn’t just that this officer decided to beat her up,” he said. “That wasn’t the case.”
He added: “We don’t like to see anyone get hit, period. But then again, when you have someone who’s aggressively attacking you or spitting at you. …'

What? Don't cops in America get training? As a  mere care worker dealing with mental illness, dementia ect in my career I am regularly punched, spat on, sworn at, bitten, scratched had excrement thrown at me- you name it it has probably happened- and we, as mere care workers are trained for these situations, how to restrain at need without harm, how to defend yourself, deflect attacks ect- it doesn't involve punching anyone!!!
How can the Major be acting as if someone shouting abuse and spitting means punch the crap out of them?
What is the training for US cops- 'here's a gun you get bonus points for shooting ethnic minorities and punching drunk women in the face? Go get 'em!'?}}}

[azriel]

Too often a slap is the easy answer. It takes patience to connect with people, to quieten them down, reasoning takes a lot of mental pressure sometimes & the average copper probably cant be bothered or caring enough to do that. Look at UK police, tooled up now, a baton to the mush is easier than an in depth chat that just might drag on for ages.

[Pettytyrant101]

[Mrs Figg]

unfortunately he wasn't very funny this time, if he thinks calling people cunts and whores is funny, just cos its 'edgy?
it isn't.