Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ He wasn't- he was pointing out that the comedian Samantha Bee calling Ivanka Trump a cunt in a joke might be crude, crass or rude but it is not the same as Roseanne Barr calling a black woman a monkey. The Trump admin and through its voice piece Fox has mounted a concerted effort to get liberal talk shows sacked and there was a worrying piece the other day on fox about how American late night talk shows were taken over by leftie foreigners influencing the pure stock American electorate- so I can see why he led on that subject. }}

[Mrs Figg]

he still wasn't funny.

[halfwise]

Not sure I needed to create a new thread for this, but America's farmers are in far, far worse shape than I realized.

This year, the average farm's income is projected to be 35 percent below its 2013 level

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/american-farmers-rising-suicide-rates-plummeting-incomes/

Nobody in our government has been seriously addressing this.  And it's dire.  I can't offhand think of an obvious solution since I don't even understand the problem.  Why is income dropping?

[David H]

Yeah, it's real.  As to why, it's lots of things but a couple of easy ones: more layers between production and market mean less profit, global distribution and clever marketing algorithms mean the old supply and demand curve just doesn't apply the same any more, and small farmers don't have the leverage they used to.

Edit: Oh and now we find we have to be pawns in multiple trade wars as well...

[halfwise]

So increasing the popularity of farmer's markets will help, but since so much of sales is now international a new model is needed to address small farmers, somewhat like the fair practices movement for coffee and chocolate?

[David H]

I love farmers markets, but they're about as significant a part of the solution as bicycles are to Los Angeles traffic. They're don't even make a dent.

Urban populations are so dense now, and the farmland that feeds them is typically so far away (often on a different continent) that an amazingly complex and efficient distribution network has evolved to feed people, with a diversity of options never even dreamed of 50 years ago.

And one of the greatest efficiencies has been the use of various tools like auctions and commodities markets to acquire raw materials at the lowest possible price. That makes it hard for a small farmer who finds himself having to be increasingly competitive for a diminishing price.

[halfwise]

The Walmart effect in produce. Looks like small farmers can only compete in specialty niches, but that's easier said than done.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Its the same here- the big supermarkets are always engaged in price wars and small farmers have been squeezed to near extinction in some places.

This is the official figures-

In 2016-17 the average Farm Business Income (FBI) was £26,400. This represents an increase of 94 per cent (£12,800) in real terms over the past year. However this is still a decrease of 46 per cent (£22,900) in real terms since 2011-12.
2016-17 saw spending on inputs fall, which was supported by an increase in outputs caused by a rise in crop and livestock revenue and the increased value of subsidy payments. Since 2011-12, crop and livestock inputs and outputs have both fallen, however the cost of inputs have fallen at a slower rate than the outputs over the period. This combined with the decline in value of subsidy payments led to a decrease in FBI.
Forty five per cent of farms in the survey generated income equivalent to less than the minimum agricultural wage (MAW) on a per head basis, per hour of unpaid labour. This includes the 23 per cent of farm businesses that made a loss in 2016-17.
General cropping farms had the highest average FBI in 2016-17, at £47,000, while LFA sheep farms had the lowest average FBI, at £14,000.
All lower quartile farms (businesses with the lowest 25 per cent of FBI values) made a loss in terms of FBI in 2016-17 with the exception of LFA cattle and sheep. The average FBI of lower quartile farms ranged from a profit of £2,600 for LFA cattle and sheep farms to a loss of £56,100 for dairy farms.
The upper quartile farms (businesses with the highest 25 per cent of FBI values) had incomes ranging from £64,000 for lowland cattle and sheep farms to £148,900 for dairy farms.

Milk is particualry cheap in supermarkets and small dairy farms are competing for the market with massive production line style dairy farms. We are a little luckier where I am as one of our two big supermarkets is a co-op which is very community based, and source locally where they can- the other thing is that thanks to the landscape if you bring milk in you need to either come a long way round by road in refrigerated lorries or get a ferry, so there is still good economics in sourcing milk locally. But in general the picture is pretty bleak for small farmers and worse for crofters. }}}

[Mrs Figg]

spot on this time. totally agree.

[azriel]

Does he rehearse any of this ? cuz this guys a natural He does say the odd crappy thing but, on the whole, I love this guy

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Agree with him here all right- first time I came across this I was in my teens and picked up a re-released edition of one of Enid Blyton's Adventure books in which they had changed a black villain into a white villain. I still dont understand the logic behind it but I was as struck then as I am now by disgust at the notion of tampering with the past in that way. We learn from our past collectively as a species, and books, stories and tales are our way of doing so- they are important, and its important they remain true and honest to the times in which they were conceived, or they will have no value to subsequent generations if they are changed into the likeness of the moment. }}

[Mrs Figg]

[azriel]

Im hoping these young lads get out pretty dam soon I watched a clip on the BBC news & they showed the boys all smiles not looking worried. I could have cried.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/escape-by-diving-not-suitable-yet-for-boys-in-thai-cave/ar-AAzGtlx?ocid=spartanntp

[azriel]

Bang on the money there Figgs He is so on the ball. Shame HE isn't running for MP ! Theresa May ( or may not ) comes from my home town & I very much doubt she will get a blue plaque here, a black eye more like.

[David H]

Im hoping these young lads get out pretty dam soon   I watched a clip on the BBC news & they showed the boys all smiles not looking worried. I could have cried.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/escape-by-diving-not-suitable-yet-for-boys-in-thai-cave/ar-AAzGtlx?ocid=spartanntp

I don't have to guess why they're smiling so big. Just imagine you're trapped in the darkness deep underground with no food. you don't know if anybody even knows where you've disappeared to, and you're pretty sure they couldn't get to you even if they knew were to look. Hope is flickering as you're stuck on your rocky self watching the water rise..... Then suddenly a diver pops out of the water and offers you a snack. Who wouldn't smile?

[azriel]

I agree Dave, & you do have a warm way with words oh wise Sage. It was the smiles that brought me to tears. Not happy birthday smiles, not Ive passed my test smiles. It was I love you mum smiles, am I gonna get out smiles

[David H]

There are some amazing people working to solve the problem of getting those kids back to their families, and Hope is the the most important thing they could give those kids right now. Without it, none of their other plans are half as likely to work out. Keep smiling!

[azriel]

What is going on ?  Too many stories like this are popping up lately  

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/twenty-two-killed-and-dozens-more-feared-dead-as-huge-section-of-highway-bridge-collapses-as-cars-drive-across-it-in-apocalyptic-scene-during-fierce-storm-in-genoa/ar-BBLUoC3?ocid=spartanntp

[David H]

Bridges have been falling down for a long time

"London Bridge Is Falling Down" (also known as "My Fair Lady" or "London Bridge") is a traditional English nursery rhyme and singing game, which is found in different versions all over the world. It deals with the depredations of London Bridge and attempts, realistic or fanciful, to repair it. It may date back to bridge rhymes and games of the Late Middle Ages, but the earliest records of the rhyme in English are from the seventeenth century.

Here's one a little north of here that got famously caught on film in 1940.



I think what's changed is that there have been tens of thousands of bridges built in the last 50 years, and now everybody's got a camera phone to record them falling when they go unexpectedly.
It's kind of like the old London Bridge game for grownups...

[David H]

Hmm... it looks like I may have grabbed a Youtube of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge (aka "galloping gertie") that may have other agendas. You can easily find others if you've got a faster connection than I've got...

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Its a bad one this bridge collapse- how in this day and age a major motorway flyover can be in that state is mindboggling. }}

[azriel]

its not just bridges collapsing its other things as well. Ive seen floods, tornado's, fierce winds destroying public get togethers, Hailstones the size of baseballs, severe rain storms that have swept cars away. Every time I turn on my computer theres a disaster somewhere. This is not a stable world

[azriel]

Flash floods in Pennsylvania just recently.... ( apparently, it is facebook after all )


https://www.facebook.com/ABCNews/videos/1901950553222966/

[Mrs Figg]

{{Its a bad one this bridge collapse- how in this day and age a major motorway flyover can be in that state is mindboggling. }}

This bridge was built by Morandi, he is famous for building in concrete which later crumbles into dust. There are others by him in an equally terrible state.

[Pettytyrant101]