Merry Christmas - 2017

Though I don't believe in splitting people into these categories I have to defend Petty - in that many people will plop you into categories. It can save you a lot of heartbreak if you realize what's happening to you, nod your head and say "okay, she just wanted a night of fun, she'll run for the hills if I act like there's more to it than that."

Explaining to a Jew that there are anti-semites in the world doesn't make you complicit in it. But I'd also say people who do the night-o-fun/relationship thing aren't necessarily bad people - they often think you understand what's going on and expect you are game. It simplifies things tremendously. Don't be so quick to judge.

I once had a girlfriend tell me that she loved me after about two weeks of dating. I replied with a forced and uncomfortable "I...love you too..."

In hindsight I really should have said "I'm hungry, let's get something to eat."



But really, what do you do if you're the guy and you're in my shoes? If you're the girl I guess you have more of a right to make a stink about it and reject it if you're uncomfortable, just more double standards. Two weeks in? No, I don't love you. Jeez lay off, will ya?

Wait, how did my Merry Christmas thread devolve into relationship moping and bitter feelings and quarreling with others? The Christmas spirit really does only come once a year, I guess. Sorry, baby Jesus, we ruined your birthday.

bungobaggins wrote:Wait, how did my Merry Christmas thread devolve into relationship moping and bitter feelings and quarreling with others? The Christmas spirit really does only come once a year, I guess. Sorry, baby Jesus, we ruined your birthday.

Sounds exactly like some of the family Christmases I've experienced...

Maybe we should start a new thread on dating/relationship woes...

malickfan wrote:Maybe we should start a new thread on dating/relationship woes...

Wait, hold up a minute here. Everyone else got to bare their souls, so I want to get some takes on the question that I posed. Would you have said "I love you" even if you weren't in love and the other person said it first and you had only been dating a little while?

What's the right thing to do without damaging it going forward? It seems like if you say "Well I don't think we've been dating long enough for me to have developed those feelings for you" basically ends the relationship right there.

bungobaggins wrote:Wait, hold up a minute here. Everyone else got to bare their souls, so I want to get some takes on the question that I posed. Would you have said "I love you" even if you weren't in love and the other person said it first and you had only been dating a little while?

I have actually done that, because I have an unhealthy habit of trying to say what I think other people want to hear, and I've only started to overcome this in the past year or two. I did draw the line when she asked me to propose (because she thought the guy had to do it) after a month. She couldn't take no for an answer and continued to regularly press me to ask her despite me saying how uncomfortable it made me, which was a miserable experience and made me guilty, but fortunately I worked up enough self-respect to end that relationship after only about three months.

What's the right thing to do without damaging it going forward? It seems like if you say "Well I don't think we've been dating long enough for me to have developed those feelings for you" basically ends the relationship right there.

It might end the relationship then and there, but I think speaking your truth is probably the best bet. Could phrase it along the lines of "I want things between us to continue to develop but I'm uncomfortable saying that so early." If the other person can't respect that then it might be for the best to get out early despite how unpleasant and disheartening that can be.

Yikes! Sounds like you were in an even more uncomfortable position than I was. It's too bad we only ever seem to find these things out about people after dating them. There are a lot of people out there that are genuinely crazy!

I agree that speaking my truth probably would have been the best route, especially looking back on it. Though, I don't think I could have improvised the line that you gave. I would have needed about ten minutes to think about it before I came up with a response.

It's a lot easier to think of good things to say after the fact, yeah.

I've by no means been blameless in all my relationships, but in that one our individual mental and emotional problems interacted in a really bad way.

I'd probably say something like "That's a really nice thing to say, but are you sure you don't want to hold off on that until you've seen me when I'm not on my best behavior?" Then I'd laugh and steer the conversation towards safer ground.
If it were a little later in the relationship I'd probably lead the conversation into a "grey-horse discussion" on the whole spectrum of things people might or might not mean when they use the word "love". (I guess that's probably just me demonstrating my not-best-behavior.)

I have both women & men friends. Ive heard you cant have a man for a friend as all he wants is to get in your knickers. Not always. Ive got a friend who is male that Ive been friends with for 16 years now. I know his wife, we get on. Ive watched his daughter grow up. I love him so much as a friend & that's how beautiful it is. Its a lovely, long lasting, honest, trusting friendship. He'd do anything for me & I'd do anything for him, all in the name of friendship. And for some, a friendship that lasts years is worth a million one night stands or doomed romances. All of my friends I just see as that, Its either "Bob" or "Mary" ( not real names ) I don't think Oh its a guy, watch out or, oh its a woman she'll be bitchy. If one or the other causes trouble its the person not the gender that's pissed me off & IL treat them accordingly. Ive got to a point where I'm mostly comfortable with myself & life. IF a romance popped up Id take it as it goes but, I'm not on the hunt, just live each day, every morning is exciting, its a new chance

Like two ships passing in the night.

I don't know what the antithetical metaphore would be.. two ships crashing into each other and sinking? doesn't sound good does it

bungobaggins wrote:

malickfan wrote:Maybe we should start a new thread on dating/relationship woes...

Wait, hold up a minute here. Everyone else got to bare their souls, so I want to get some takes on the question that I posed. Would you have said "I love you" even if you weren't in love and the other person said it first and you had only been dating a little while?

What's the right thing to do without damaging it going forward? It seems like if you say "Well I don't think we've been dating long enough for me to have developed those feelings for you" basically ends the relationship right there.

Mmm, well, I think we shouldn't think of "I love you." as such a big deal. They are only words, that express a how you feel in the moment. Second, Also, "I love you" can mean a whole lot of different things to a whole lot of different people. Obviously for you it is something serious. In that situation I think an answer like "Gee, you know, "I love you" is really a heavy thing to say for me, and I am not sure I feel ready to say it, but I hope I will be." (*Wait, Eldo already pretty much said this, but without the "Gee", so I call best line*) I guess saying I love you in a lot of circimstance is less about declaring undying love and more about affirmation that you enjoy spenidng time together and want to keep moving things along. Not sure there are any easy answers, but I think it is good to stop treating words like something dangerous.

Eldorion wrote:

bungobaggins wrote:Wait, hold up a minute here. Everyone else got to bare their souls, so I want to get some takes on the question that I posed. Would you have said "I love you" even if you weren't in love and the other person said it first and you had only been dating a little while?

I have actually done that, because I have an unhealthy habit of trying to say what I think other people want to hear, and I've only started to overcome this in the past year or two. I did draw the line when she asked me to propose (because she thought the guy had to do it) after a month. She couldn't take no for an answer and continued to regularly press me to ask her despite me saying how uncomfortable it made me, which was a miserable experience and made me guilty, but fortunately I worked up enough self-respect to end that relationship after only about three months.

Hey, I ask my girlfriend that sometimes. Although, only to tease her, as she's really not into the whole "marriage" being the goal of a relationship thing. Good thing we have a simmilar sense of humor.

you called Figg a teapot! - Norc

{{No, I didn't! On a point of technicality I called her contribution to the debate a chocolate teapot, not Figg, as she did do the equivalent of sticking her head in the room shouting "Sexist bullshit!" and leaving again- which if you take the stand point my argument was sexist, its hardly the sort of contribution likely to make me reconsider my position!

Incidentally I did try explaining this discussion/argument to my better half, she concluded upon weighing up all the evidence for herself that what I said was not in any way shape or form sexist, but in her own words "Just really stupid." Italians! }}}

I’m not sure about Scotshobbits getting together with Spaghettihobbits... or, more precisely, the other way round. But my Moderator powers only go so far...

As to any relationships and Christmas... well, frankly, my experience tells me they should be kept well apart. Maybe it’s about time we worked out the actual date of Erumas. That would be a time of true joy... when the Music first Began...

....not the Morgoth bit...

I am happy to leave the Morgoth bit to the Christians here. Here to help!

((({{{See how it’s done, Petty. You need to be tactful about things like Spagetthihobbits and Christians, especially if you meet them in Forumshire.... }}}

Hey, as far as I remember Morgoth introduced some dissonance and made things interesting

Oh geez, back to the Big Bad Serious thread with that humbug!


Anyway, Bungo, what about the old "Thanks!" reply?

Hmm, I haven't had the awkward premature "I love you" fiasco.  But I can imagine how it might go if I was the recipient.

Her: "I love you."

-- stunned silence --

Me: "You do?!"

Her: "Um...uh...I...yes."

Me: "Oh"

-- silence --

Me: "Really?"

Her: (biting her lip and looking like she's about to cry)

Me: "No, that's great...I mean...I like it, it's just..."

Her: (tears welling up and making funny half choking sounds)

Me: "...It's only been a couple weeks."

Her: (face now buried in arms)

Me: (desperate) "Maybe we should get some ice cream?"

I can think of an alternate scenario:

Her: "I love you"

-- stunned silence --

Me: (improvising hopefully)  "Does this mean I'm getting lucky tonight?"

END: SCENE
END: RELATIONSHIP

I just remembered that though I haven't had an "I love you" sprung on me, back in high school I did have a tender young thing describe to me how she would look up in the sky at night and try to pick out my face in the stars. I don't remember exactly how I reacted (I think there was some confused gurgling involved) but I do distinctly recall that deer-in-the-headlights sensation.

halfwise wrote:It depends on how you bailed out.  If you didn't tell her why or discuss it then it's classic male stupid behavior.  If you took time to think about it, then talked it over with her, then even if you broke her heart you did the right thing.  One test is whether she put herself in a convent afterwards.  Bad sign of a screwup, that.

At Changi airport at the moment, so again I don't have time to catch up - just wanted to reply to this. I did take my time (maybe too long, even), and told her exactly why and how I felt about it. We are still very good friends, so I guess I did something right after all. Now off to get a free beer in the lounge and prepare for another ten hour flight!

I wont leave you Hammy !

And in the state of Florida, Iguana's are frozen solid due to adverse weather conditions. Residents are asked not to steam boil these babies up

bungobaggins wrote:Wait, how did my Merry Christmas thread devolve into relationship moping and bitter feelings and quarreling with others? The Christmas spirit really does only come once a year, I guess. Sorry, baby Jesus, we ruined your birthday.

it's called norcing