Britain at a crossroads - United Kingdom general election June 8 2017

Simul.

halfwise wrote:I would even say Trump helped Macron win.  The French saw what happened here and were not passive in response.

That would make sense. Glad that salty Melenchon supporters saying "both candidates are just as bad" didn't tip things in Le Pen's favor (looking at you, certain faction within the US Democratic Party). Hoping for a positive outcome from the German elections next.

I'm not worried abt FN in 5 years. I think this was their big chance, with the Socialists historically unpopular and the Republicans fielding an unelectable candidate. If Macron is underwhelming, next time round the R (conservatives) will have been 10 years out of power and not be able to be blamed for anything. And the populism wave will have faded, as all fads do.

I'm really hoping Macron will succeed, particularly in pushing Europe to fulfill its potential, and a pro-EU leader with ambitions of positive reform was so important at this point, but I'm not worried.

See UK, that's how you do it You don't have to vote for the demagogue just because she tells you to..

Eldorion wrote:

Bluebottle wrote:As far as data collection/protection/privacy is concerned it certainly is interesting that the UK can't wait to leave the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the European Union

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/oct/09/facebook-data-privacy-max-schrems-european-court-of-justice

It's pretty gross, yeah. And the snooper's charter that finally got passed last year is a travesty. Arguably May's signature achievement as Home Secretary, although she was PM by the time the successful version of the bill finally passed.

Yeah, hopefully the British will have the chance to try the human rights legality of that, before they repeal the ECHR as well.

Bluebottle wrote:I'm not worried abt FN in 5 years. I think this was their big chance, with the Socialists historically unpopular and the Republicans fielding an unelectable candidate. If Macron is underwhelming, next time round the R (conservatives) will have been 10 years out of power and not be able to be blamed for anything. And the populism wave will have faded, as all fads do.

I'm really hoping Macron will succeed, particularly in pushing Europe to fulfill its potential, and a pro-EU leader with ambitions of positive reform was so important at this point, but I'm not worried.

And they might all be otherwise engaged, there is also that

http://www.france24.com/en/20170427-france-marine-le-pen-eu-parliament-fraud

https://www.facebook.com/JonathanPieReporter/videos/1215590158563875/

Oh, Jeremy.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-sound-of-leamington-spa

Jeremy Corbyn is enjoying his first general election as Labour leader, and he wants to make something very clear: He intends to remain in the job, even if he isn't victorious in next month's vote.

"I was elected leader of this party and I’ll stay leader of this party," Corbyn told BuzzFeed News, taking a few minutes out from campaigning in the Warwickshire town of Leamington Spa.

No matter what happens on 8 June, he said, he would be "carrying on". And he insisted that the constant criticism and poor poll ratings were not getting to him. "Monsieur Zen is fine," he said.

Not exactly surprised by this, and not confident that Corbyn would be unseated in his third leadership election in as many years were he to be so challenged, so I have to wonder if and when we're going to see a splinter party. Maybe call it SDP 2: Blairite Boogaloo.

Maybe call it SDP 2: Blairite Boogaloo.- Eldo

{{ Thats not only funny but displays a fine knowledge of UK political history young Eldo m'lad }}}

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/11/leaked-labour-manifesto-policies-clause-v

My favorite sentence in there:' “How will you pay for it” is an excellent question. It’s just a shame it only gets asked of things such as health and schools and not of huge corporate largesse.'

Redistribution, relatively small tax rises on those who can afford it.

It is not that difficult. It is just about priorities, really.

Now the Tories has managed to make it a question of sepdning and not spending, when it is a question of what you spend on.

"Raising the corporate tax rate to 30% [...] a reversal of George Osborne’s giveaways, , [to] put Britain on a par with Germany and Japan and leave it well below the going rate in that bastion of communism, the United States" to pay for things like the NHS... I think I'd go with that...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/12/never-voted-before-jeremy-corbyn-changed-mind

{{This continues a fine tradition of Who and Daleks in particular being used for political commentary, first example being from 1964 regarding NATO and De Gaulle of France as Degaullek (keen eyed Whovians should be ab;le to spot its from the early sixities by the satellite dish on the daleks back)}}}

brilliant

{{These are brilliant- you can follow Tory Jesus on Twitter (apparently) }}

Teresa May, Strong and Stable
Stole the food
From the children's table
Took away their daily bread
Then stole grans house
When she was dead
To pay for care when she got ill
When fighting a war
Should've paid the bill
Set out to kill the remaining old
By taking cash when it gets cold
Then cut the pensions of those left
A nasty, evil, hateful theft
And she wants us to tick her boxes
When she wants to bring back killing foxes
No police, no fire or ambulance crews
If you're robbed, or trapped or hurt, you're screwed
With tax breaks for her corporate chums
And "rape tests" for multiple mums
Is this a place you want to live?
Where you get less back
Than what you give?
So I'll tell you this, I'll tell you straight
The choice is yours on June the 8th
A vote for May will give you this
Where the poor stay poor
And the rich get rich
Your choice could end the pain and sorrow
And give us all a new tomorrow
Do the right thing...

Bill Stirling SNP Candidate

I am going to steal that one.

Saw a projection yesterday that said the Tories (going by the projection) would have a parliamentary majority of two whole mps. If this trend continues towards election you wouldn't be surprised to see a hung Parliament, with a center left alliance in power.

Corbyn and Labour have made it Clear that brexit will happen. In hindsight I think that was wise. The will of the British People to uturn on the issue, whatever the legitimazy of the first vote has not been there to a large enough degree to transcend party politics, or at least the LibDems and Farron were unable to give strength to that fervor, and people are understandably more worried about the right here and now issues of a failing NHS and disastrous Tory rule for the poor and the many.

What will a center left majority mean re the EU. It will mean brexit, but a softer more level headed brexit, and not the one the most rabid Tory back benchers are pushing.

{{Scottish Labour and UK Labour are again making a complete arse of their campaign.
For weeks now Scottish Labour leader Dugdale has been banging on about how Scottish Labour is the party that will preserve the Union not the Tories.
Their webpage states their position clearly-

'“Scotland is already divided enough. We do not want to be divided again, but that is exactly what another independence referendum would do...Labour believes that together we’re stronger. That is why we firmly oppose a second referendum and Scottish Labour MSPs will vote against the SNP’s proposals...."

Dugdale herself said the following, "Labour is the only party which knows it is the power of the whole UK working in partnership which benefits the many, not the few - that is at the root of our belief that together we're stronger. That is why Labour opposes independence and a second divisive independence referendum."

So clear enough.

And then Corbyn turned up and said this about another referendum-

“I'll obviously open discussions with the Government in Scotland and listen very carefully to what the Scottish Parliament says.
I would ask them to think very carefully about it and suggest it would be much better to have this question dealt with at the conclusion of what are very serious and very important Brexit negotiations.”

Which is, um, Sturgeon and the SNP's position- that a 2nd referendum should not take place until the terms of Brexit are known.

So if you are in Scotland, want to keep the Union but not vote Tory and you vote Scottish Labour who oppose a 2nd referendum, you will if they win elect a Labour party which would open negotiations with the Scottish Parliament to have another referendum. Yeah.

So like Trident- Scottish Labour oppose it but if you vote for them Corbyn says its staying- it seems Scottish Labour isn't making much sense on the referendum question and Unionism either. }}

its not mutually exclusive. first off Corbyn is playing the long game, he is saying that if its necessary for a progressive alliance with the SNP he is not going to piss them off before everything is clear by saying no to a second indiref, second Dugdale is saying that in principle that labour is for the union and against a second indiref. She can say it, he can not, not if he wants to keep the SNP non-enemies in this delicate time. He is wisely saying they can eventually have a second indiref if they really want one, Dugdale is freer to say what she thinks, its quite understandable.
Corbyn actually came off quite well in the Paxo interview yesterday, and much better than May. there may be hope afterall.

{{Oh I see the politics behind it, but its screwing Dugdale up here as it comes across as she is saying one thing and he is saying another- and before Corbyn got elected to lead labour Dugdale was an outspoken critic of his and said he didn't have what it take sot be a leader.
So its gives the press and the other parties a lot to have fun with there.

That could be an issue as Corbyn really needs to win back some ground in Scotland for Labour on a national level- but he is essentially fighting a different fight than Scottish Labour that requires different tactics- often they clash.

Agreed on the interviews- May has always been low profile when it comes to campaigning- its always been put about its because she prefers to get on with the work and doesn't care for the public limelight- but its becoming increasingly obvious the real reason is because she isn't good at it. She is having a terrible campaign.}}

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tory-majority-poll-election-2017-latest-labour-hung-parliament-seats-theresa-may-conservatives-a7764271.html?

re: what I reffered to above

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Oh I see the politics behind it, but its screwing Dugdale up here as it comes across as she is saying one thing and he is saying another- and before Corbyn got elected to lead labour Dugdale was an outspoken critic of his and said he didn't have what it take sot be a leader.
So its gives the press  and the other parties a lot to have fun with there.

That could be an issue as Corbyn really needs to win back some ground in Scotland for Labour on a national level- but he is essentially fighting a different fight than Scottish Labour that requires different tactics- often they clash.

Agreed on the interviews- May has always been low profile when it comes to campaigning- its always been put about its because she prefers to get on with the work and doesn't care for the public limelight- but its becoming increasingly obvious the real reason is because she isn't good at it. She is having a terrible campaign.}}

The problem is that the whole campaign is being fought on the cult of personality, like its all about Theresa May and its as if she is on a presidential campaign instead of it being about the Conservatives, I guess they were thinking that she was super popular therefore bury all mention of the 'nasty party' due to the negativity surrounding the legacy of Cameron and Osborne. But the shine has rubbed off as people realize its just business as usual. Those soundbites are grating on a lot of people, and she is incapable of actually saying anything of worth. Corbyn is doing an ok job at the mo, all he needs to do is keep Abbott as far away from the telly/radio/media as possible. Most people cant stand the woman.