US General Election 2016

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Would love to know from our US residents how this is going down over there? Cause its going down as a total sell out to Russia here, utter unbelievable capitulation to Putin and acceptance of his word over his own countries, even by Trump standards he seems to have shocked people. }}

halfwise wrote:I may sound like an apologist here, but it was made very clear that outside of uncontrolled exceptions like Abu Ghraib, the interrogation program was done with careful thought and respect, it wasn't at all a case of "by any means necessary".   In fact the last waterboarding was done in 2003, long before it had become a public issue.  It was only used while there was still a sense of urgency.  

halfwise wrote:

There's no way to make it look good unless you read a whole chapter and are willing to overlook the trickle-down effects like Abhu Graib, which is asking a lot.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{In other news be interested in your thoughts on this Dave-

So useful or just a gesture?}}}

“This trade war is cutting the legs out from under farmers and the White House’s ‘plan’ is to spend $12 billion on gold crutches,” said Senator Ben Sasse, a Nebraska Republican who frequently criticizes the president, a fellow Republican.

“Tariffs are taxes that punish American consumers and producers,” Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul wrote on Twitter. “If tariffs punish farmers, the answer is not welfare for farmers — the answer is remove the tariffs.”

Republican Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa said the aid package is “encouraging for the short term.”
“What farmers in Iowa and throughout rural America need in the long term are markets and opportunity, not government handouts,” Grassley said.

David H wrote:

halfwise wrote:

There's no way to make it look good unless you read a whole chapter and are willing to overlook the trickle-down effects like Abhu Graib, which is asking a lot.

I don't see how you can overlook the Abhu Graib effect. I think it was shocking to everybody how quickly it "trickled down" including Bush who approved it. It appears to be a steep and slippery slope and I'd prefer we don't step out on it.

This is the face of a man trying to stand on a slippery slope:

Local farmer calls it like he sees it

By Christopher Gibbs - Guest columnist

Let me be clear. I want to be supportive of the president and his policies. As a farmer, we voted for the president because he purported to represent a “can do, just get it done” attitude. That attitude is the core of farm folks. But the president’s trade war, now being supported by hush money to keep agriculture sedated, is a bridge too far for me. This week the president announced he is offering $12 billion of borrowed taxpayer monies to continue to “have farmer’s backs.” These dollars are nothing more than verification that the president’s protectionist’s trade policies are folly.

Let me tell you a riddle. “I slept with a billionaire because he said he loved me. I expected to make love, but in the morning I realized I was getting screwed. When I went to tell the world, I was offered cash to keep my mouth shut.” Who am I? No, I’m not a model or someone named Stormy. I’m the American farmer.

In the mid-1980s we were awash with over production in the corn and soybean sectors. Agriculture got busy, boarded planes, trains and automobiles and started building markets around the world, one handshake and one relationship at a time. We used our own funds through our check off dollars and trade associations to build markets in Mexico, Canada, Latin America and the Pacific Rim. And we didn’t stop there. In partnership with the U.S. taxpayers, we built an ethanol industry to ensure another renewable energy source for U.S. consumers.

The world markets, which the president is now tearing down in the name of fairness, were built and paid for by farmers to ensure agriculture had outlets for our production so we didn’t have to come to the American taxpayer for support.

We keep hearing about the “Art of the Deal.” I’m waiting for the “Art” portion. Using a club to bludgeon our trading partners and allies is not negotiating. It’s nothing more than a playground bully stomping around to see who will flinch.

These pay-off dollars will do little more than put a target on agriculture’s back and make agriculture no better than those who come hat in hand wanting something for nothing. Farmers historically enjoy goodwill from the American public and taxpayer. This scheme will result in non-farm state legislators turning their back on agriculture when we need real help.

I spent 30 years administering federal farm programs with the USDA. I’ve administered and supported disaster programming, conservation programming, and price and supply stabilization. I believed in those supports because I believe a strong agriculture is directly related to our national security. I’ve never administered hush money designed to make me sit down and shut up about a ridiculous protectionist trade policy that has destroyed in a matter of months what my industry built with our own hands over decades.

The president calls ‘em like he sees them, and so do I. I won’t be silent any longer.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Assuming Trump doesn't do anything too stupid.... }}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Assuming Trump doesn't do anything too stupid.... }}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{You may wish to not read the following quote Dave from Trump at his most recent rally talking tariffs on farmers, it may make your head explode! }}

"China and others, remember this, have targetted our farmers, not good, not nice. And do you know what our farmers are saying? 'It's OK, we can take it'. These are incredible people. 'We can take it.'"