Star Wars [2]

I enjoyed The Force Awakens quite a bit the two times I saw it in theatres and from what I remember of the Half in the Bag review Jay and Mike were pretty positive on it as well. I wouldn't describe it as a great film and I certainly don't think it was better than the original or Empire, but I'm somewhat optimistic for Episode VIII. Although I think the Plinkett review makes good points as to why that optimism is probably misplaced. I thought that the humor in TFA worked well in context but it did contribute to making the villains feel very non-threatening most of the time. Though I do think Kylo Ren was one of the best parts of the movie, whininess and all, mainly because he wasn't a rehash. Somewhat similar to prequel Anakin but executed much better. It was kind of disappointing that Phasma's role ended up being so small after having been hyped up, but such are the ways of movie editing.

The Plinkett prequel reviews are classics and I think Mike is correct in his description of most current YouTube reviewers and movie commentators operating in their shadow. A lot of the comedy of the Plinkett reviews come from him ripping terrible movies to shreds so I'm not surprised that the TFA review felt different, though I enjoyed the Star Trek '09 and Titanic reviews as well, which were both also films that Mike liked despite having certain reservations.

I think Rogue One could potentially be a really interesting new kind of Star Wars movie in terms of tone and content but it probably won't be.

TFA was in my eyes a more than solid (if rushed) blockbuster and the best parts were better than some of the strongest parts in ROTJ (I find Kylo a much more interesting character than Vader personally, and it was the first film I actually gave a shit about Han as a character) but I won't deny the ANH remake and Mary sue complaints had soome basis in fact...

I have no desire to sit through six or seven hours of prequel reviews no matter how amusing they are, I already know why I dislike the prequels...

I thought they handled Han really well. I think Harrison Ford had a reasonable point about Han dying and while I'm kind of glad they didn't do that in ROTJ, it worked well in TFA.

Kylo is definitely a more complex character than Vader was. It's easy to forget that Vader in the original film was just one of the Emperor's toughs, and even in Empire and later Lucas' conception of the character was still evolving.

I think "soft reboot" is a perfect way of describing TFA. It's weird to think that several years ago that term didn't even exist (I remember getting into online debates about how to classify ST '09 and X-Men: First Class back when they were new). It's not really what I wanted from Episode VII but it's easy to see why they took that route.

TBH I've never entirely understood the Mary Sue complaints about Rey. The main argument seems to be that she's too good at things, which isn't really what the term Mary Sue means. But even so, while one can argue that the movie should have thrown in some expository lines of dialogue to better establish her skill set, it's not hard to imagine how she could have picked up many of her abilities. And the less plausible ones are pretty much outright stated to be because of the Force IIRC which is a little corny but entirely within SW precedent.

I think alot of the complaints about Rey are frankly misogynistic in nature, the complaints about her being too powerful/competent etc are more often than not explained (if obliquely) by the script, and the clue is in the fucking title, the force awoke suddenly in Rey meaning she's a chosen one like Annakin etc.

Han kinda bored me in the OT he was just another generic rogue with a gun, making Han a somewhat bitter cranky failure of a father who returned to his roots humanized him.

No, the complaints about Rey are not misogynistic in nature. Perhaps you are too young to remember Wesley Crusher? People HATED him, because he was too young to plausibly be running circles around characters that had good reason to be leaders in their lines of work, yet the writers kept having him do just that. Or a more pertinent example: the 10 year old Annakin Skywalker, who could build or fly anything. People REALLY hated that little twerp.

It's the same reaction that Rey got, but very much toned down: at the dawn of the internet age there were discussion groups titled "wesley.crusher.die.die.die".

Believe it or not, even young folks get pissed off at the cult of youth. The trope of the young saviour annoys the heck out of people, unless they earn it. I still don't feel Luke earned the right to be called a Jedi - we just didn't see enough of his development.

Somehow that trailer doesn't come across as well as the others. Editing or something. Or perhaps we're not seeing carefully chosen micro-snippets anymore so it doesn't stand up as well.

I still feel that this could be something special for a Star Wars movie but it will probably be fairly same-y. And I'll keep telling myself that to hopefully keep my expectations in check and enjoy it more.

What I liked about SW was, it felt like a good old fantasy sci-fi film should feel. This trailer felt as tho I had got it wrong & it was real, not fantasy, its real dope head !!

Yeah, it definitely looks like they're going for something different. I hope that's how the actual movie ends up. Don't get me wrong, I love regular Star Wars and the fantasy aspect is a big part of it, but it'd be neat to see them try different things with the spin-off movies they're making in between the main "Episodes".

I agree to some part. As its just a "snack between the main course" it would be fun to see how far you could take this. I think they tried it with "Predators", ( Adrian Brody et al ) & I don't think it actually worked ? But, with SW it might be ok if handled well ?

Except for minor hints at imperfection in the latest Rogue one trailer (the others were drool-worthy) I think Rogue one looks every bit like what I want a Star Wars movie to be. Let's hope.

Trailers can be very deceptive, so I try to reserve judgement if all I know about a film is what was portrayed in its trailer.

In preparation for Rogue One I rewatched The Force Awakens for the first time since it came out, and my rambling thoughts follow:

I still feel the same way as I did a year ago, for me it was a solid, hugely enjoyable sci fi blockbuster with great cinematography, set pieces, acting, music and likeable new characters, but also a film that strikes a somewhat awkward and rushed balance between homage and new territory. Abrams and co seemed so set on striving to keep the design and plot structure people love from the OT that they ultimately lost a little of the old magic of the saga, say what you like about the prequels, but Lucas made an attempt (albeit a deeply flawed one) to expand the series in very different directions, his new designs and planets etc though somewhat cliche (and out of keeping with the used future aesthetic of the OT) were at least drastically different, TFA plays things safe in most respects and is both enjoyable and annoying because of it, but some of that may simply be the absence of Lucas's involvement.

Whilst I find the prequels clunky, badly paced, written, acted and frankly rather boring and less in keeping with the spirit of S.W (at least as I perceive it) they had a sense of misguided heart and independent spirit to them, TFA was for me a much more enjoyable experience that felt like Star Wars, but was much more filmaking by committee-that isn't necessarily a bad thing and I'm not going to judge Disney on their approach in just one film, as long as the New Films are fun, expansive and more grounded than the prequels I think I'll enjoy most of them.

Star Wars films have never been long or slow paced movies, but TFA feels moves at a very fast pace, sometimes to to its own detriment, Rey and Finn have very underwritten character motivations, the first act flies by without taking time to breathe or establish any of the new planets properly and a the third act with Starkiller base enjoyable as it is is rather derivative, I certainly enjoyed the ride, but it almost feels like we skip some of the journey...I think Abrams made the ride decision in limiting the political discussion that turned off so many in the prequels and TFA makes an effort to make the Force more mythic and mysterious (no midoclorians here) and place a greater emphasis on visual storytelling, but I couldn't help but wish for more clarification on the hows and whys of the current Political Landscape and how the First Order actually came into being, though some of these questions might be answered in future films or spinoff books etc.

Did Disney plays thing safe? Yes, But does it feel like Star Wars (at least as I perceive it)? Also yes, and crucially did I enjoy watching it again? Most certainly yes.

It is not perhaps the storyline I would have written (Luke was my favorite character in the OT...so I was, and remain slighty peeved with his absence save a cameo, though Abrams reasons do make sense) had I a creative bone in my body, but I can understand the reasons why Disney went the route they did, and i.m.o for the most part they succeeded.

A slower first act, more background exposition, another twenty minutes an a few structural tweaks, and this could have been excellent instead of very very good, that said it was the most fun I've had with Star Wars since playing Rogue Squadron/watching the OT on VHS repeatedly as a kid fifteen or so years ago...it's weird, every time I've watched the film I've noticed more things I'd want to tweak or expand on, but I actually end up enjoying it more and more.

Episode 8 can't come soon enough 7.5/10 (I'd also give ROTJ a 7.5/10, but personally consider TFA a more enjoyable and slightly superior film)

I personally prefer TFA to ROTJ, and already find Kylo Ren a much more interesting villain than Vader was (Empire Strikes Back will always be the best star wars film i.m.o, but depending on where Disney take things I might just end considering Eps 7-9 my favorite trilogy in the saga...if not necessarily the 'best') I've never considered S.W high art, just fun escapism, so as a more casual fan, than say, Petty I was much less emotionally involved in this film than some and perhaps more forgiving of its flaws.

For me as someone who always enjoyed the OT, played a few of the videogames but was never a hardcore fan, TFA really did bring back the magic in a way I haven't felt since childhood, albeit in a slighty awkward, overly nostalgic and rushed manner.

Though I certainly hope Episode 8 is more willing to experiment with the tone and structure a 4th massive battle station would be taking things a little too far...

(For the record my parents, one of my siblings and my Uncle all loved TFA, my father and Uncle who were old enough to see the original film in 1978, consider it the best entry in the saga so far, the latter saw it three times in the cinema which is probably the first time he's seen the same film at the cinema more than once since the original film)

Rogue One looks promising, and I will be seeing it in IMAX...

Very good review, nicely said.

I think I must be the only one who found Kylo Ren to be whiny, non-threatening, annoying. Nothing compares to the archetypical evil majesty of Darth Vader. (only with the mask on - all other incarnations are best forgotten).

halfwise wrote:Very good review, nicely said.

I think I must be the only one who found Kylo Ren to be whiny, non-threatening, annoying.  Nothing compares to the archetypical evil majesty of Darth Vader.  (only with the mask on - all other incarnations are best forgotten).

I never found Vader a very intimidating Villain (well, I don't think I did, I can't remember how old I was when I first watched the films) to me was just a bloke in a mask with a slighty menacing voice (that may be my age/relative lack of interest in the saga showing again), though I can understand why he made such an impact on other viewers (that may, ironically, be why I wasn't that attached to him-as early as the '90's Vader had already become a popu culture icon rather than a simple Villain), Ren on the other hand was for me a much more morally grey and intriguing character, on the one hand he was a whiny undertrained spoiled brat thinking he was more powerful than he was, on the other hand he was a broken kid alienated by his parents who weren't there for him and lured by the power Snoke could give him instead, he's kinda of useless and unsure of himself but in some ways I find that more intimating than Vader's straight forward Villainy-Vader straight out murdered people in a calculated manner, Ren lashes out in Anger when he dosen't get his way and hesitates before he kills his father, he's a more human and fallible antagonist which is oddly a pretty alien concept in the Star Wars universe...

I though Driver's performance was one of the strongest in the film, and of the new character his story is the one I'm most intrigued by going forward.

I'm still sure if BB-8 was giving Finn the thumbs up or a middle finger...

This is mostly stupid, but a good idea at its base:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/watch-epcot-spaceship-earth-transform-032648325.html

malickfan wrote:I'm still sure if BB-8 was giving Finn the thumbs up or a middle finger...

I am nit sure about that either. I immediately thought middle finger until I watched it on Blu-Ray and my other half thought it was thumbs up.

Probably says a lot about me (see my avatar).

Interesting review Malick; it's nice to hear your thoughts on the film after a long break. I'll probably rewatch TFA before Episode VIII comes out though my enjoyment of the film will probably go down if VIII doesn't take the story in a more interesting and original direction.

malickfan wrote:I'm still sure if BB-8 was giving Finn the thumbs up or a middle finger...

I always thought it was really obviously a thumbs up. BB-8 had just decided to help Finn by revealing where the resistance's base was, so Finn gave him a thumbs up which BB-8 reciprocated. Flipping him off would make no sense in context.

halfwise wrote:I think I must be the only one who found Kylo Ren to be whiny, non-threatening, annoying.  Nothing compares to the archetypical evil majesty of Darth Vader.  (only with the mask on - all other incarnations are best forgotten).

I mean, Ren is definitely whiny and annoying, but he's supposed to be that way. He's literally a school shooter who happens to also be a gifted Force-adept. He was one of my favorite parts of the movie because he felt similar to what Lucas was aiming for with the depiction of Anakin in Episodes II and III, except executed much better. A very different sort of villain from Darth Vader, although his fanboyism of Vader lends an interesting subtext given how steeped the movie and its creators are in Star Wars fandom, particularly towards the OT.

Just because he's supposed to be whiny and annoying doesn't make him interesting. Darth was great because he played all the tunes of evil power perfectly; something which was often done laughably in Flash Gordon movies, for example, but Lukas managed to finally perfect it.

Star Wars films have never been long or slow paced movies- Malick

{{Cant say I entirely agree there- the first SW film is pretty long, and its pacing pretty slow, especially for the first two-thirds of the story. Among many other narrative devices it uses from LotR's is its structure of being longer in the set up than the finale. }}

halfwise wrote:Just because he's supposed to be whiny and annoying doesn't make him interesting.  Darth was great because he played all the tunes of evil power perfectly; something which was often done laughably in Flash Gordon movies, for example, but Lukas managed to finally perfect it.

Darth is not interesting in the first film. He is a typical sub-bossman. Good boy gone bad. He doesn't have any depth of character until later in the trilogy.

I think Kylo has a lot more personality than Vader did with the same screen time. Have to wait and see if that develops further.