Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [5]

by Lancebloke Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:05 pm

My other half was there only a few weeks back... week before the airport was bombed.

I have no idea who the coup is for... the news doesn't seem to say anything about who was behind it and why.

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:17 pm

{{{From what I can tell Lance this is the worlds most ironic coup.

A bunch of military and others were worried that the Turkish government was breaking with secular democracy and favouring nutters like ISIS and other severe Islamic groups.
The previous Turkish govt which set up the whole democracy secular thing had entrusted in law the defence of democracy to the army- obviously some of the army thought it was time to act- with some fair points- the current government has been imprisoning opposition politicians, closing down news outlets not run by the state and the President has built himself a huge palace, probably with gold taps- the usual signs your governments rather likes the sound of a totalitarian regime.

And this is where the irony is- the people of Turkey, instead of rallying round the uprising, rallied rounds the government on the basis that the coup was undemocratic!

Been at work all afternoon so not had time yet to catch up on the latest goings on, but that seemed to be the state of play when I went out today}}}

by David H Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:58 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{{And this is where the irony is- the people of Turkey, instead of rallying round the uprising, rallied rounds the government on the basis that the coup was undemocratic!}}}

The trouble with uprisings is that the odds are you're usually going to end up with a gang of thugs in power.
Faced with that choice (and all the recent examples) a lot of ordinary people will choose a stable semi-democratic dictatorship as the lesser of two evils.

by Mrs Figg Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:27 pm

I think the people have supported Erdogan because they have been slowly islamified and are less secular than they were in the 90s.

by Eldorion Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:15 am

Obviously there's gonna be a shake-up after a coup attempt but it's hard to interpret the firing (and in some cases arrest) of more than 2700 judges as anything but a grab for more power using the coup attempt as an excuse, or at the very least a crackdown on dissenters in general rather than specifically those involved with the coup plot.

https://next.ft.com/content/79f72260-4c3c-11e6-88c5-db83e98a590a

by David H Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:51 am

I'd call it a very clear message to dissenters.

by Eldorion Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:16 pm

I wonder how many years it'll be before we get clarity on who exactly was behind the coup attempt and what their specific motivations were.

by Mrs Figg Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:22 pm

there's about 6000, yes that's 6000, people being arrested including judges, I have a feeling its a purge on a massive scale. they are talking about bringing in capital punishment too. he will be stronger than ever. sayonara secular Turkey.

by Lancebloke Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:06 pm

Bringing back the death penalty will end any EU hopes.

by Mrs Figg Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:50 pm

yep. if Turkey by some miracle joins the EU its probably better we are out of it. small consolation that is though.

by Eldorion Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:18 pm

I feel like Erdogan's increasing authoritarianism (even before the coup attempt) should have stalled the accession process, although there have been similar problems (albeit on a smaller scale AFAIK) in EU member states like Hungary and Poland so Shrugging

Certainly it would be even harder for Turkey now.

by halfwise Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:27 pm

One wonders if an attempted coup in a western country would result in the death penalty. It's definitely an option for high treason.

by halfwise Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:28 pm

The purge of 6000 is very ominous.

by Eldorion Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:37 pm

I know the death penalty has been abolished nearly all of Europe and I don't think there's an exception for military offenses in most if not all of those countries. Turkey is actually in that same category (apparently because of their ambitions to join the EU), but Erdogan is talking about reinstating it with the implication that it will retroactively apply to the failed coup, which adds an extra layer of fucked-up-ness to it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-coup-erdogan-purges-army-protesters-arrested-france-warning-blank-cheque-a7141361.html

by Mrs Figg Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:44 pm

nobody is going to protest, they are too worried about the hordes of refugees in Turkish camps skipping over to Greece.

by halfwise Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:31 pm

It only gets worse: travel ban an academics, all university deans asked to resign:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/turkey-bans-all-academics-from-travelling-in-latest-post-coup-measures/2016/07/20/f3498b44-4de5-11e6-bf27-405106836f96_story.html

by Mrs Figg Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:45 pm

some of the things coming out of Turkey is beyond belief.

by David H Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:47 pm

Yeah, it's reminding me of what was happening in Chile in the 70's under Pinochet. A lot of the best and brightest academics and professionals ended up fleeing to the US during that time, and a lot more just disappeared... pale

Chile is still recovering from those times.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:02 am

{{Playing a canny game in terms of becoming an Islamic state and getting away with it is Turkey.
They have a massive stockpile of NATO nukes and we need them to fly missions out of against ISIS in Syria and Iraq- in short he can get away with this because we cant afford to do what we should and pull our backing from Turkey and apply international pressure on them.

As of last reports I saw they had rounded up thousands of police, judges, military, forced the 'retirement' of most of the Heads of Universities, and purged the schools of thousands of teachers as well as civil servants and party members. }}}

by halfwise Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:16 pm

I think that's a good read on the situation.

The university purges means they are planning to go full Islam. Bye-bye secular Turkey; I should have visited you when I had the chance....

by Lancebloke Thu Jul 21, 2016 7:33 pm

I wonder how long before 'the people' realise what they have done by not supporting the coup.

They fought for democracy and will probably end up in a dictatorship.

Sheev Palpatine all over again!!!

by Mrs Figg Thu Jul 21, 2016 8:06 pm

I agree Lance. its like some Stalinist purge at the moment. its going to go two ways, or civil war or theres going to be a mass exodus of secular educated people escaping the dictator like they did with Idi(ot) Amin in the 70s.

by Mrs Figg Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:31 am

getting to the stage where you cant even go out for a pint of milk without getting your head blown off. Suspect

fer fucks sake

by halfwise Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:02 am

I think this is why Trump has a shot at winning. He says flat-out he'll fix things, and people really want to believe it.

by Mrs Figg Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:56 pm

you may be right Halfy. people need to feel protected in a scary world, maybe that's why people escape into virtual reality, its better to go round chasing Pokemon than facing the real little monsters on the streets