Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [5]

[David H]

Racial mistrust is a part, no doubt. But there's also a growing 'quick-draw' culture among both police and private gun owners which means that officers like this are now making life and death decisions in a split second when 10 years ago they'd have had 3 or 4 seconds to think about it.

It's scary. Once they suspect that there might be a gun, even a completely legal one, their training often is to make sure they can get the first shot, and that means they're not thinking about how to de-escalate the situation.

[malickfan]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/north-korea-says-us-sanctions-leader-declaration-war-170305297.html?ref=gs

The Korean War technically never ended, so America and N.K are still at war in some respects...

[Eldorion]

{{{Just what the fuck is going on with US police and blacks? - some graphic content-}}}

I mean, there are plenty of issues like militarization of police, which is itself (in part) a response to the proliferation of weapons in America, but the biggest issue is racism. Many police officers, like much of society, view and treat black people differently than white people which means that many (not all) cops are more willing to shoot at black people. It goes way beyond the police, though. Look at the NRA's non-response to the murder of black gun owners as opposed to its freak-outs over real or perceived infringements of the rights of white gun owners. Or how much of the media regularly tries to dig up dirt on black victims of violence, even stuff completely unrelated to the fatal incident, whereas the response to white perpetrators of violence is to talk about their good qualities and ask questions like "how could kid like this have made such a mistake?" I'm generalizing of course but these are established patterns in our culture and public discourse and it's what a lot of people default to when making judgment calls. No surprise that police do the same thing. Police should of course be held to a higher standard and changes in training and a greater emphasis on community policing are steps in the right direction, but there has to be a broader cultural shift as well.

The details of this case and especially the presence of the video has meant that even my step-mom who is a cop and my conservative friends from college who are generally pro-police in such issues have been unanimous in their condemnation, though there are plenty of people who will defend even this.

[Eldorion]

Governor Mark Dayton:

http://www.snappytv.com/tc/2318919

I'm heartbroken for Minnesota, because I've heard in the last few hours from very distinguished African-American men and women who have recounted to me how they've been pulled over, singled out, and treated very differently because of their race from how white Minnesotans expect to be covered. Would this have happened if those passengers -- the driver and passenger -- were white? I don't think it would have. So I'm forced to confront, and I think all of us in Minnesota are forced to confront, that this kind of racism exists.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Good to see the Governor stepping up to the plate and not making excuses or hiding form what seems now an obvious truth.


Was rather disgusted by this. Bill O'Reilly, who I sometimes get lulled into giving the benefit of the doubt to in terms of if he is a real journalist or not, has come up with this load of nasty gutter shit.

Pictures of Obama as a young man in Muslim dress.



Now given he was attending a Muslim marriage of a family member is attire is hardly surprising.
And of course of no meaning beyond he was respectful to his hosts.

But no according to O'Reilly it shows where his sympathies lie. And by tacit unspoken extension that he is soft on Muslim terrorist because he is secretly in favour of their religion.

Its up there with the birther nonsense. Its the lowest form of journalism, cheap, lazy , sensationalist, populist and dangerous.

Fox you strike a new low. }}}

[Eldorion]

Gross from Fox, but let it not be forgotten that the original "Obama's a secret Muslim"/"omg look at this picture of Obama dressed like a Muslim" fear-mongering came from Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2008.

[David H]

So I'm forced to confront, and I think all of us in Minnesota are forced to confront, that this kind of racism exists.

It's amazing to me that the existence of "this kind of racism" is even in question.

At the same time, speaking as somebody who's seen officers unsnap their holsters or draw their nightsticks on me because I "don't belong here", I think it's important to acknowledge that there are other important variables in the equation.

Of course poor policing is going to affect the least privileged people the most. It seems obvious (at least to me) that we should be improving the quality of policing at the same time that we address the racial and privilege issues, or we're just going to be chasing our tails. {{*stepping down from soapbox*}}

[Eldorion]

That's very true David, and I think there are certainly other less-privileged groups that get the short end of the stick from the police and society in general. We barely even have a vocabulary for discussing class in the public sphere, although it's of course connected to race in various ways.

[halfwise]

I've seen an officer unsnap the holster of his gun as he approached me for a speeding ticket.  This is rightfully SOP, but nerve-wracking and I can see some people initially reading that as racism and reacting, and then things spiralling out of control.

Not saying there isn't this type of racism; there clearly is.  A lot of it.  But  racial tensions cut both ways and unfortunately one side will always come out the loser.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Thats everything in life for you- you think you've spotted something that's a black and white case (no pun intended) and then when you look closer its just a big smug of grey.
This is why only Lore Masters should handle the grey areas }}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{Nasty train collision in southern Italy- I hope you and yours are all well and safe Figg}}}

[Mrs Figg]

yep thanks Petty. it was a bad one 20 plus dead.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{heart goes out to all those involved, but also very glad you are safe and well Figg }}}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Horrific attack in France. This has to stop one way or another.}}}

[azriel]

Ive heard . The world is losing its sanity. People seem to be under a strange influence & just dont fooking care tuppence about anyone or anything. What heights will this go to ? In all honesty what can the authorities do ? There's so many people on this Earth with ideas of their own how can you gain control ? The film Minority Report doesnt look so daft now.

[Mrs Figg]

no words left.

[Mrs Figg]

ITS OFFICIAL. WORLDS GONE MAD. WTF TURKEY??? and they want to join the EU. good luck with that.

[Ringdrotten]

ITS OFFICIAL. WORLDS GONE MAD.

My thoughts exactly when I heard about it. Allow me to throw in some Zevon lyrics

Send lawyers, guns and money
The shit has hit the fan

[Mrs Figg]

I guess its not all bad news, Erdogan was trying to turn Turkey into an Islamic caliphate and was a dictator but the army is secular and was probably right to get rid of him.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{Seems to be getting worse by the minutes, anti-coup protesters are being shot on the bridges. Seems the police HQ was attacked, reports of 17 dead there and random explosions and gun fire all over the place. }}}

[Mrs Figg]

Turkey coup seems the wrong terminology somehow.

[Mrs Figg]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/15/turkey-low-flying-jets-and-gunfire-heard-in-ankara1/

[halfwise]

as of now the coup seems to have been defeated. I wish I knew enough about Turkey to know how I feel about this. Typically the army in both Turkey and Egypt are anti-Islamist, pro western. But a coup is not a good thing in a stable country. And now it's defeated...just don't know how to feel about the whole thing except to worry about encroaching chaos.

[halfwise]

Worse, the who thing went down during Forumshire-moot: behind our very backs!    

It's like they knew who to hide it from.  They knew.

[Eldorion]

First of all, thoughts and sympathies with the deceased and their families.

As far as the politics of it all, I'm far from a fan of Erdogan, but a coup is not the right tactic and I can't see this being a good thing for secularists in Turkey.