Doctor Who [10]

See now you are just insulting me by saying that because I am a man I cant see how terrible a character she is because I am blinded by lust and sex- what a load of shite.
Her looks have nothing to do with it, if her character was only in a book and on the page I would still find her journey from Amelia to Amy to be interesting and fascinating- her looks have absolutely nothing to do with character.
I think Billy Piper is a very sexy woman (and a good actress)- doesn't affect how I feel about Rose though.

I personally don't care what Amy does or does not look like, what I object to is her sexualisation, in a childrens tv show. She is shown as a sex object and a thinly disguised sex worker from the start. She is shown as using her looks to get by, using them instead of using her brain which is not a positive message for young girls whose role models in the media look like those hyper sexed girating gypsy children for all intents and purposes. (lookin at you Miley fucking Cyrus) These have no place in Who in the 21st century, Leela was a long time ago and ironically was probably more advanced than Amy even though she wore a suede bikini LOL .
I believe that we are commenting on her image not her looks as an individual person. Her looks have nothing to do with it that's true, Moffat showing her as a bimbo in a short skirt is totally up for discussion.

Except Moffat never put her in a short skirt, he didn't specify any wardrobe for her at all- that was Karen Gillan and the wardrobe department.

Nor do I agree she is shown a sex object- for a start our first introduction to the character is as a young girl and the personality she has is one that older Amy is directly connected to, they are clearly the same person, only older Amy has a pile of problems created by no one believing her story about the raggedy man in the blue box.
The journey she goes on from Amelia to Amy at the end is a complex one and a deep one. To reduce it just saying she is just there for reasons of looks is in my view insulting to the writing, the character and the actress all at once. And to suggest that I am wrong in my opinion because I am blinded by her looks or by sex is insulting to me. I really am not that shallow a person.

So now gender stereotyping your opponent is a bad thing? Hurts when it's aimed at yourself, doesn't it?

As for Capaldis eyebrows, it was a good way to tease the audience. Great stuff. Having the Doctor comment on them saying.... mmm... it was something about the eyebrows trying to take over the world. I wish Moff didn't do that. The fans will make the meme and the fanfics and the fanon. Of course, this is far more obvious in Sherlock.

"I think Billy Piper is a very sexy woman- doesn't affect how I feel about Rose though."

But there's no way I can feel the same about Amy because....?

it was something about the eyebrows trying to take over the world.- Amarie


It was a satircial comment about Scottish independence actually.

BARNEY: They are mighty eyebrows indeed, sir.
DOCTOR: They're cross. They're crosser than the rest of my face. They're independently cross. They probably want to cede from the rest of my face and set up their own independent state of eyebrows. That's Scot. I am Scottish. I've gone Scottish?


But the point the character was making was that the face he had for this regeneration was angry, and he didn't know why he would choose that face-

DOCTOR: Look, it's covered in lines. But I didn't do the frowning. Who frowned me this face?....Why this one? Why did I choose this face? It's like I'm trying to tell myself something. Like I'm trying to make a point. But what is so important that I can't just tell myself what I'm thinking?

I love that line - 'who frowned me this face?' just a beautiful bit of prose perfectly delivered by Capaldi.

'So now gender stereotyping your opponent is a bad thing? Hurts when it's aimed at yourself, doesn't it?'

Except I have never used the looks or physical appearance of the actress as an excuse to dislike the character as you have. I have been discussing throughout the personality and character of Rose, and how she is written not her appearance, which is irrelevant. Its not me uses the physical look of the actress to beat the character with.

'But there's no way I can feel the same about Amy because....?'

You can feel as you please about the character- but if you are basing that on the actress being good looking I dont find it a very compelling argument.

You are not listening, as usual. Again you are saying I don't like her because she's pretty. You are saying that. Not me.
But you can say that Rose is sexy, but you don't like her and it's a completely different story. Why?

If thats true what was -

'First we see of grown up Amy is make up, red lips, short skirt and handcuffs, And to top it of, she's a kissogram - more or less a stripper, as you have said yourself. Instant interest. Don't talk to the brain, talk to the dick.'

that about- and I have never said a kissogram is more or less a stripper, quite the opposite, they are not the same thing at all, notably one of them strips one of them doesn't (I'll give you a hint, the clues in the name!).

But you can say that Rose is sexy, but you don't like her and it's a completely different story.-- Amarie

Her being sexy or not is completely irrelevant the character- in all my discussions about the character I never once brought her being sexy into it, not once. I mentioned it solely in response to your above remarks. Billie Piper looks have no bearing on my comments about Rose's character either way. Never have had.
Whereas you seem to take how Amy looks as a reason for disliking the character as you keep bringing it up. I dont think its at all relevant when discussing either character.

Moffat shows his true colours, sexist, insensitive prat. and this is the guy who writes for childrens tv show.

•Scotsman Interview 06-06-04

Includes sweeping generalisations such as “women are needy” as well as claims that “there’s a huge, unfortunate lack of respect for anything male”.
There’s this issue you’re not allowed to discuss: that women are needy. Men can go for longer, more happily, without women. That’s the truth. We don’t, as little boys, play at being married - we try to avoid it for as long as possible. Meanwhile women are out there hunting for husbands."
•After Elton Interview 01-08-11


In which Moffat spectacularly fails to understand why one-liners and minor characters don’t constitute actual GSM (Gender and Sexuality Minority) representation.  
•Wales Online Interview 04-01-12

•Guardian Interview 20-01-12

This is the interview in which Moffat said asexuality was boring, Irene Adler of the original “Scandal in Bohemia” was un-feminist, and talks about claims that his writing of Doctor Who is sexist.  
•Think Progress Interview 07-05-12

Just one choice quote; “I remember when I was reading that story as a kid, Sherlock goes on and on about The Woman, the only one who ever beat him, and you’re thinking, he’s had better villains than this. And then you click: he fancies her, doesn’t he? That’s what it’s about.”.  

Quotes
•At Comic Con, July 2008. (x)(x)

"You have to hand it to the Doctor for dumping a slightly needy girlfriend by palming her off on a copy of himself. He tried leaving her in a parallel universe, and that didn’t work."
•Doctor Who Confidential, All About the Girl. 10-04-10 (at 23:10 and 23:34)  

“And I thought, ‘well she’s really good. It’s just a shame she’s so wee and dumpy…When she was about to come through to the auditions I nipped out for a minute and I saw Karen walking on the corridor towards me and I realised she was 5’11, slim and gorgeous and I thought ‘Oh, oh that’ll probably work’.”
•Doctor Who Confidential, Blinded by the Light. 01-05-10  

“Part of the mission statement when writing a script for Doctor Who is how bad of a time can you give Amy Pond.”
•Regarding the Time & Space Comic Relief mini episodes. 02-03-11 (x)

"And there’s a moment with two Amy Ponds in it. If you’re a red-blooded male surely that’s enough! You’ve got Amy Pond flirting with herself.”
•Doctor Who Magazine, first started appearing online 8/9-05-12 (x) (x) (x)

“What is the base group of people who would run away with the Doctor? They’re all going to be a bit mad. A bit dislocated. Not happy with where they are. Are they yearning for outer space? They’re going to be people who feel like they can take on the Doctor, who’s quite an intimidating sort of person. So, they’re going to be feisty—they’re going to be all those things.”

“I think the function of a companion is pretty simple. I don’t think that’s very difficult. It’s just a question of who credibly is going to agree to go in the TARDIS? Who’s going to do it? Is it going to be a mother of 15 children? No. Is it going to be someone in their 60s? No. Is there going to be a particular age range? I mean … who’s going to have a crush on the Doctor? You know, come on! It’s more than a format. It’s evolved from good, dramatic reasons.”
•From an article in The Times, 19-05-12  

"Your wife turns into a boat, and shortly after that, you never sleep again and you clean shit off someone. It doesn’t seem like a very appealing prospect. Obviously, the moment I saw my child, that was different, but up until that point, I was thinking, ‘how long before she gets back to normal size? Will this damage anything?’"
"If you take most men aside when their wives are pregnant, most men are pretty frightened and worried and faintly disgusted by the whole experience."

Adventures in Twitter
•1:12am, 31-08-11. (x)

“I AM sexist. Women are cleverer, nicer, kinder and better at stuff. Don’t let on or they’ll keep us in fields. FIELDS!!!”
•3:00am, 31-03-12. In response to someone asking if we were likely to see any openly gay characters in Doctor Who. (x)

“Canton is nice. Vastra and Jenny are nice. Captain Jack is nice in both directions.”
•6:11am and 6:16am, 10-05-12. Regarding what The Doctor would say about gay rights. (x) (x)

“You’d have to explain gay to him first. Then straight! Then why you were still talking when there’s ALL THESE SPACESHIPS!!” and “Then he’d be very cross it was ever in doubt, add a gay marriage setting to his screwdriver and accidentally marry a Krynoid. Again.”
•7:46am, 11-05-12. In response to someone inquiring how The Doctor could be unaware of sexual orientations when he traveled with both Captain Jack and River. (x)

“We don’t acknowledge you on television cos you’re having FAR TOO MUCH FUN. You probably don’t even watch cos you’re so BUSY!!”
•2:43pm, 18-05-12. Responding to polite comments regarding the fact that River doesn’t really contribute to bi-visibility if the majority of Doctor Who’s viewers are unaware of her bisexuality. (x)

“When did I say I thought I was contributing to bisexual visibility?? Please stop being rude to me, you have no reason to be.”.

Characters
•River Song

When we are first introduced to River Song she seemed, to many, to be a very promising character. However, as more of her backstory has been revealed it has become apparent that she is far from brilliant.

Most of the problems with River Song can be summed up in a single sentence. Her entire existence revolves around The Doctor. Almost immediately after her birth she is kidnapped and brainwashed by The Silence in the hopes of defeating The Doctor. She doesn’t end up killing him, but still she is forced to serve a life sentence because everyone thinks she killed The Doctor. After she completes her sentence she becomes Professor River Song, finally living a life of her own she goes on an expedition to The Library where she dies to save The Doctor.

River really sums it up herself; “When I first met the Doctor—a long long time ago—he knew all about me. Think about that. Impressionable young girl and suddenly this man just drops out of the sky. He’s clever and mad and wonderful and, knows every last thing about her. Imagine what that does to a girl…I live for the days when I see him.”  
•Amy Pond

There are many problematic elements to Amy Pond. Though she initially appeared to be a fairly progressive character, aside from a fair amount of appealing to the male gaze, by the end of series five she had been reduced to an incredibly passive role. This passivity is perpetuated in her companion title “The Girl Who Waited” which also infantilizes her.

In series six we saw the mystical pregnancy storyline, which basically reduced Amy to her reproductive system, as well as making her a damsel in distress. After this incredibly traumatic experience she has her baby stolen from her and is given no time to deal with the experience. She also seems to regress from the character, independent and looking for adventure, we see in series five. More and more she begins to fulfill the dutiful wife role.  

In fact, the only time we get to see any substantial character growth, in The Girl Who Waited, it is snatched from her and she reverts back to the Amy we see at the beginning of the episode.
•Irene Adler

Yet again we have a character who initially seems very promising. Irene Adler began as a really strong character, though she is somewhat sexualized to appeal to the male gaze. The major problems, however, appear later in the program.

Whilst Irene tells John she is gay, soon a love story begins to develop between her and Sherlock. The de-gaying of queer characters is a long standing, and incredibly problematic and erasing, trope in the mainstream media.

Furthermore, unlike Arthur Conan Doyle’s original Adler, BBC!Irene does not triumph over Sherlock. Rather her silly, womanly feelings towards Sherlock prove to be her downfall which reinforces stereotypical and sexist ideas about emotions being a weakness.  

Irene’s tale finishes with her on her knees, completely helpless, about to be executed Pakistani terrorists (this scene had incredibly racist overtones), when all of a sudden knight in shining armour Sherlock swoops in and saves her.

Figgy, if we ever meet I will probably hugglesquish you to near death. You are FAB!!

Although rather than just copy and pasting someone elses entire anti-Moffat blog I may advise actually reading the full interviews and seeing what he says in context- most of this is just cherry picking for sensationalism and not the full thing of what he said in any of these cases- I am half way through the third one so far and boy are these quotes taken out of context.
But then why bother putting in the leg work Figg when you just repost someone elses bias and pass it off as your own eh? But then why bother with the facts now when you haven't before.

Wow. I was about to say that I'd buy Petty a Buckie if we ever met, but right now I'd probably keep it for myself.

...eh. I'd probably buy one anyway. But not as big as initially planned.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Although rather than just copy and pasting someone elses entire anti-Moffat blog I may advise actually reading the full interviews and seeing what he says in context- most of this is just cherry picking for sensationalism and not the full thing of what he said in any of these cases- I am half way through the third one so far and boy are these quotes taken out of context.
But then why bother putting in the leg work Figg when you just repost someone elses bias and pass it off as your own eh? But then why bother with the facts now when you haven't before.

miow!  and you called Rose a bitch.  firstly I made no claims it was my work, secondly its never stopped you using other peoples material to make points or videos, so try not to be too hypocritical. Its interesting you attack me but not the horrible things he says. some of it about his own wife.   Actually I don't know why you are attacking me at all, it was a bit of a low blow. but still I feel that I should be allowed to question and criticise a writer who I think is damaging and twisting a much loved tv show. But I guess that's what Moffat fans are like, defending the indefensible.

But the guy said the words, I didn't make them up. he hoisted himself with his own petard and a thoroughly nasty mean spirited character he seems. People who make comments like those in a public arena deserve all the flack they get.

But you are not giving them in context- you haven't even checked the sources. I know that because I have been. Some of it was said in interviews which are filmed are where he is clearly taking the piss out of those who accuse him of sexism, others the statement is entirely out of context and ignores others things he say in the same interview- including how he thinks women are better than men at most things, how he feels the female directors that he has brought in have given new energy and new talent to the show, why he has been deliberately slowly introducing the concept of gender fluidity in Gallifreyeans to allow for a future female Doctor - but hey, that doesn't fit your narrative so why report that when you can just cherry pick.

And no I have never copied and pasted someone elses entire piece and just posted it as my argument, I make my own arguments and my own case. And I do my research.

And honestly, if I felt as strongly as you do about Moffat I would not be still watching the show- same as I stopped watching RTD and waited for a new showrunner.
I dont get why you would want to keep watching if you hate everything about it.

I heard that argument over at TORn when I criticised PJ. don't watch it. If it continues as it is I probably wont, as it bores my pants off.

I dont watch TH films- I dont even watch the edits of it even though they are better, and couldnt tell you the last time I looked at LotR's- I dont really get watching something week after week that you hate.

It's the hope that maybe this week they'll nail it. Maybe this week is the week we get the new Blink episode. Maybe this week there will be more of the stuff you like and less of the stuff you don't.

Well with the exception of the Forest episode and maybe parts of Caretaker I felt last series nailed it.
Doesnt seem to have made any difference to some here though, not the new writers, new directors or new Doctor, or a completely revamped and much improved Clara.
If that wasn't good enough then I really don't know what will be.

I felt happy & sad in equal measure. God I love Dr Who

God I love Dr Who- Azriel

Yup me too! (and nice to see someone else around here who does!)

Reaction vid for Listen from the ChiqueChicks- one of them is a Fjordian the other English, never have quite worked out which is which (maybe you Fjoridans can tell), but they do the drunk reaction vids (my sort of girls!) I always enjoy their reaction vids (they do Sherlock too and Game of Thrones)-

Im guessing its the girl with the red hair

I didn't see much, but I suspect Red is the Fjordian as well. Seemed to me like she said Åååh! rather than Oooh!