Doctor Who [10]

Poor bugger must have had ideas of his own!

How preposterous. Ideas? On Doctor Who? That were not RTDs?! He must have thought he'd been hired to write or something.

ironic seeing as Moffat is an ego on legs. and RTD is not.

Oh, their personalities strikes me as, if anything, quite simmilar.

Hard to tell without knowing either of them- but going on what we do know about how Who has been written, RTD and Moffat era, RTD was certainly much more controlling and often rewrote other peoples episodes. Moffat seems to give more direction and key points to hit but leaves more of the writing of individual episodes to his team- although he did cowrite more episodes in series 8 than any of his previous series of Who.

that's why the quality is dodgy.

Different styles.
I think there is something to be said for both styles myself.
Giving your writers more freedom means you get some out the box stuff thats brilliant - like Flatline.
But at the same time I felt last series tonally and thematically was the most planned and consistent episode to episode of any NuWho series - and that I think was deliberate on Moffats part and explains his co-writing credits on so many episodes last series. Although that could in part also be explained by him bringing in so many new writers at once to the show and them needing a bit more guidance than previous series.

Flatline stood out because it was imaginative, the other episodes looked dull in comparison.

Forest of the night was imaginative, as you would expect from a childrens book author. Not a personal favourite but cant fault it for imagination.

Listen was very imaginative, its narrative actually relies on imaging.

Kill the Moon was so imaginative a lot of folk complained about it.

I'd also argue there is plenty of imagination going on in Robots of Sherwood and Mummy on the Orient Express, even there names speak of using the imagination.

I quite liked Forest of the Night I must admit. that and Flatline were the only episodes I enjoyed or would watch again.

Forest Shepherd wrote:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:'The BBC has confirmed that filming has started on block 2 of the next series of Doctor Who, and that Hettie MacDonald will be returning to the directors chair for the session.

MacDonald previously directed the Weeping Angels’ debut in the 2007 story Blink.'- Gallifrey Base

Neato!  

This sounds promising! I like!

looking forward to some good episodes

you might hate RTD but it is RTD who made WHO the success it is today. You owe him some respect. It was his brilliant casting and writing that gave us a new and revitalised programme. HE built Who into a success and Moffat lives on the reflected glory. RTD is the real deal, he put heart into characters and understood what Who is all about, namely assistants who are normal people put in extraordinary circumstances. that works, not Girls Who Wait, or Impossible Girls. that's why Clara will never be a classic assistant, she isn't normal enough, she doesn't have Donnas heart or Roses spirit, she is just an amalgum of fast quips and shallow gloss, bit like the Ponds and River. So RTD  the best thing to happen to Who. EVER.- Figg



I don't hate RTD I just don't like his writing and don't think its genuine Doctor Who. Its like a safe friendly version set in soap opera land.
I have always credited him with getting the show back off the ground but to suggest Moffat is riding on RTD's coat tails on a show with a 50 year history and many showrunners before is silly and over promotes RTD in the pantheon of showrunners.

And Who was a success before RTD took it over- its fanbase never went away as evidenced by things like Big Finish appearing to fill the gap- driven by fans.

I dont think he understood what Who was about- or rather I think he did and didnt want to make that sort of Who. He wrote was he always writes - domestic drama.

And saying Who is about ordinary companions is ignorant of companions of the past. The idea assistants are all ordinary everyday people is a modern myth created by RTD and Rose- some companions fit this mould to a degree- like Sarah Jane (but she wasn't a simple shop girl either she was professional working as a reporter, not something many people do) but that was not always the norm.

In classic you had aliens, robots, a Time Lady even artificial dogs as companions.

The best thing to happen to Who?- yeah like thats not Lambert and co who created the show and made it a success. Or the showrunners throughout the 70's who elevated its popularity into cultural icon and inspired RTD and Moffat and most of the rest of the NuWho writer sin the first place.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
I don't hate RTD I just don't like his writing and don't think its genuine Doctor Who. Its like a safe friendly version set in soap opera land.
.

that's nonsense. Its Moffat who has inflicted the soap opera on Who. What is more cliché than a dysfunctional marriage? that's straight out of Eastenders. RTD had family dramas but they were firmly in the SUB PLOTS with secondary characters like Roses parents. Moffat however made his soap opera as part of the MAIN PLOT, ie The Pond saga. Their dysfunctional relationship was what pushed the episodes forward, the girl torn between the husband and the 'boyfriend', how cliché is that? and we had two whole seasons of it. RTD had the family dramas going on IN THE BACKGROUND but the Doctor in Moffat World IS the soap opera character having trouble with the nagging 'wife' (River) or the demanding 'girlfriend'(Amy). RTD had the characters have normal human relationships but that didn't alter the adventures or interfere with the Doctor himself, because that would get boring, and that's what happened to the Ponds, their drama took over the show as it took over the Doctor and the stories, so they had to go.

We did not have two series of it, we had almost none. 11th hour only mention is Amy reluctant to identify Rory as her boyfriend. It doesn't come up again until the final scene in the angels 2 partner, and then the Doctor is horrified and goes and gets Rory.
It comes up in Vampires, is resolved in Amy,s Choice, then  Rory is out the series until the finale in which they are married.
so I make your 2 series worth to be one line in 11th hour, 1 scene in angels and is the subject of 2 episodes.
And at no point does the Doctor show the slightest interest in Amy romantically, his reaction is the complete opposite of Tennant and his dodgy creepy relationship with a 20 year old 880 years younger than himself.

that is not correct. The overcomplicated Pond/River family saga colours two seasons. Its constant. Almost everything boils down to the mawkish family unit of daddy doctor wifey/daughter River and the creepy plot line of Amy trying to shag her daughters husband. You couldn't make up shit like that.. oh wait... Eastenders must be jealous. its all a bit weird if you ask me. unwholesome.

No it is correct.

You said - 'the girl torn between the husband and the 'boyfriend'- except she isnt- she tries to have a good time with him after a near death experience and is outright rejected. Her uncertainty is not over if she wants the Doctor, its over if she wants to be married to Rory who she knows wants a settled life, career and family, and she is no longer sure she wants that.
The events in Amy's Choice which is the 7th episode, but only the 3rd episode to have Rory  in it, resolve all her questions about what and who she wants and she never looks back. They are married at series end and remain so.
And the one time Amy does try it on with the Doctor early on she has no idea he will be in the future involved with her daughter as she hasn't got one yet and knows nothing of Rivers relationship to herself for another entire series.

Compare Amy and Rory to the Rose debacle- she treats Mickey like a piece of shit- picks him up when it suits her or she wants to, forgets about him when she doesn't, leaves him to take the rap and get ostracised from his community for her disappearance and even when she is falling for the Doctor she still keeps Mickey in reserve, and she still sees other people to- she flirts outrageously with Captan Jack telling him she is free and available, she pics up the boy in Dalek and she flirts withe Doctor and acts like a bitch to any female who tries to get near him or has a past history with him. And then it all gets really creepy when the Doctor starts to reciprocate.
At least 9 acted like the Doctor and just took the piss out of her boyfriends and flirting and did not have any romantic interest in her himself. But 10- he should be locked up.

I think you are reading things into Rose that just aren't there. firstly Mickey is a loser, he is pretty useless, and Rose rightly knows that she can do better. later of course Mickey grows a pair and becomes a hero. Rose is in a dead end job with a dead end boyfriend, she treats him pretty well and certainly doesn't treat him 'like shit' that's just fantasy. She also is allowed 'to flirt' with any man she chooses or is the Doctor a Taliban leader? next you will be criticising the way she dresses. Rose is the kind of girl some men could find 'bitchy' when in reality she has a mind of her own and wont put up with second rate wimps like Mickey, why would she?. That stuff about her being a bitch to other women is just risable and doesn't deserve a reply.

I mostly agree with this blog post:

http://burrunjor.com/2015/02/14/why-i-love-the-12th-doctor/

firstly Mickey is a loser, he is pretty useless, and Rose rightly knows that she can do better. later of course Mickey grows a pair and becomes a hero......That stuff about her being a bitch to other women is just risable and doesn't deserve a reply.- Figg




She strings Mikey along- she leaves him to take the rap for her disappearance and isn't that bothered about it when she finds out. She is happy to drag him along when it suits her and she forgets all about him when it doesn't, and she is flirting openly and has a growing romantic relationship with the Doctor (even typing that feels wrong) and yet she doesnt have the guts to finish it with Mickey who she seems be keeping as a reserve- if a guy treated a woman like that Id say he was treating her like shit. No different the other way round.

As to Mickey growing  a pair and being useless before- he clearly isn't useless before- he has a job, he clearly adores her and loves her. He takes all the crap for her including her disappearance and how is he treated in return- appallingly.

And the very idea he is only a proper man when he becomes brave and heroic and 'grows a pair' is sexist. You are saying he isn't a proper man unless he conforms to male stereotypes of heroism and bravery and being strong. Otherwise he is 'useless' and a 'loser'.
Thats like saying if a woman isnt a domestic goddess, dresses well and looks good and acts sweet and demure she isnt a proper woman- its offensive.

She is a bitch to other people who get close- go watch the episode with Sarah Jane and tell me she isn't bitchy in that to Sarah.

For example-

ROSE: I don't mean to be rude or anything, but who exactly are you?
SARAH: Sarah Jane Smith. I used to travel with the Doctor.
ROSE: Oh. Well, he's never mentioned you.

or

SARAH: It's not working.
ROSE: Give it to me.
SARAH: Used to work first time in my day.
ROSE: Well, things were a lot simpler back then.
SARAH: Rose, can I give you a bit of advice?
ROSE: I've got a feeling you're about to.
SARAH: I know how intense a relationship with the Doctor can be, and I don't want you to feel I'm intruding.
ROSE: I don't feel threatened by you, if that's what you mean.
SARAH: Right. Good. Because I'm not interested in picking up where we left off.
ROSE: No? With the big sad eyes and the robot dog? What else were you doing last night?
SARAH: I was just saying how hard it was adjusting to life back on Earth.
ROSE: The thing is, when you two met they'd only just got rid of rationing. No wonder all that space stuff was a bit too much for you.

She seems both bitchy and jealous to me.

Ah, the Universe is back in equilibrium I see.

The word bitch though, isn't it a bit gender specific. Surely there are other words one can use for someone who treats someone else badly?

Malick-- good read, don't agree with it all but agree pretty much with everything they say about 12 however.

Also interesting to note this observation in among it in light of Figg and I's discussion-

'the whole Doctor having a negative effect on his companions in 10’s time with Rose going from a likable character to a selfish bitch'