Doctor Who [8]

whats Amy Pond doing in that photo?

  {{{actually that is quite funny   but still   }}}}

just me being catty   

"Peter Capaldi's Celebrity School Report and Signed Photo is being auctioned for Cecily's Fund, a charity that works to provide orphans and vulnerable children and young people in Zambia with access to education.

The unique school report is handwritten and signed by Peter Capaldi on behalf of Dr Who. It grades the Doctor on subjects including history (exceptionally good) and Dalek fighting (A+). The report also includes a doodle of a Dalek and comes with a signed photo of Capaldi."


I wonder if we can take anything form this given Capaldi is a Who fan of the highest order and has been playing the part for a year now filming.




The age is interesting- making 12 a thousand years older than 11 was, implying the siege on Trenzalore lasted about a thousand years.

Not sure about the sport category though- might tell us more about 12 than the others, 5 was fond of cricket (and 11 still knew how to throw a cricket ball surprisingly well in Family of Blood) and 11, although he only played football once, was particularly gifted at it for a first time effort.

But I suppose some cricket and one football match in over 2000 years doesn't qualify you as sporty!

I finished this night-table I had been working on for my sister's birthday. You may recognize a part of it.

thats gorgeous. I want one.   

Thanks! I put it together with the old pegs-and-holes approach. That and plenty of glue. I used redwood as it was all I had lying around at the time, and finished it off with an oil finish.
I was thinking of trying to carve little Tardises into the side, but settled for the Seal of Rassilon.

nice. it looks kind of celtic.

Indeed, clearly Dr. Who borrowed a bit from that heritage.

Thats lovely Forest ! well done you ! Id love a gift like that  

Cracking work Forest- very impressed.

Do you take orders?

One for you Petty.

Does she take orders?   

 I would order her to put her coat on.

You wouldn't want to do that Figg, that'd just make her all hot and sticky....... ah I see where you are going with this now   

 

'The 2014 series of Doctor Who will have its World Premiere in Cardiff on August 7, BBC Wales has announced today.
The screening will mark the start of the shows world tour, and will be fans’ first chance to see Peter Capaldi as the Twelfth Doctor, alongside Jenna Coleman as on-screen companion Clara, in episode one of the new series, Deep Breath.
The stars will be attending the lunchtime St David’s Hall red carpet event, together with lead writer and producer Steven Moffat.
BBC Wales Director Rhodri Talfan Davies says:Doctor Who is getting even bigger and even better - and it's a real thrill that the show's fans here in Wales will be the very first to see the new Doctor at this very special premier screening. Doctor Who has been made in Wales for almost ten years - and we're so proud of its worldwide success.'- Gallifrey Base

Thats nearly three weeks between this screening and the episode debut on tv- that's a lot of potential time for spoilers to leak!!

The final writer on series 8 has been revealed-

'the award-winning novelist and screenwriter Frank Cottrell Boyce will be writing an episode of Doctor Who for Series Eight.
The novelist is best known for his children's books for which he has won two awards, the 2004 Carnegie Medal for Millions, and the 2012 Guardian Prize for The Unforgotten Coat. He also worked on the 2012 Summer Olympics opening ceremony.

Cottrell Boyce spoke of his joy at writing for the series: "I was flabbergasted to be asked to write an episode - partly because I’ve been so absorbed in the last few series that I’d sort of forgotten that it wasn’t real."

Steven Moffat, lead writer and Executive Producer, says: Frank's script is pure magic - and everything I could have hoped for from the genius behind the Olympics opening ceremony!! Doctor Who is born anew in the mind of a genius!'- Gallifrey Base

And the episode itself, well all we know is there are a lot of children starring in it, which is always risky as it can be difficult and somewhat luck dependent with child actors and quality of performance- I thought the kid in Night Terrors for example just wasn't good enough to carry the episode which the role demanded, not the kids fault, he is a kid, but it lessens the episode. On the other hand the kid in Rings I thought was excellent and holds the central narrative of the episode together in her performance. If you dont believe her, the whole thing falls apart.
So an epiosde with children as main characters? As I say, tricky.

But they seem to have cast kids that are already established in the business at least-

'a cast of child actors including Harley Bird, the voice of household favourite Peppa Pig, alongside Abigail Eames (Harry And Paul, The Crimson Field), Ashley Foster (The Woman In Black) and Jaydon Harris-Wallace (CITV Text Santa). '

In defence of and continuation of the conversation from the Sherlock thread, which should probably be moved to here (hint, hint, Eldo my old chap!) this rather nice vid tells the story of Amy- what I liked about it is the way it nicely shows the importance of Amy young and old. Everything Amy does has to be seen in part in light of her overall life- there is a reason Moffat started the story with her childhood.

I think we agree that dependency is a sensitive issue that demands high quality writing not to sound preachy.

We agree that the writing on Who, for whatever reason, has ups and downs.

We know that generally people who are sensitive to an issue don't appreciate being preached at.

From there it's simple to add it up, isn't it?

Some people are not going to appreciate the writing related to Amy's dependency.

Why is this a subject for debate?- David


Its not. The subject for debate is that Moffat is misogynistic and sexist and Amy is a sexist character who is defined only by the men and her dependency on them.

I dont believe that saying Amy is dependent on the Doctor and her story following her development through weaning herself from that dependency to choosing her ow path supports that claim.

If you are going to have that as your end point for your arc then for it to be a story you have to start with her dependent. It as nothing to do with sexism if it were a male companion with that arc it would have to be the same.
Its a matter of story telling, not of sexism.

New series 8 teaser trailer!!      

But saying the arc covers her emergence from that shell is not the same as saying her dependence on the Doctor is because Moffat hates woman and is a misogynist who has to have his female lead dependent on the Doctor.  Petty

Whether she comes out of her shell or not is besides the point, they wrote her as a scarred character from the outset, they wrote her as having a fundamental dependence on the Doctor from childhood, she then has her body taken over for most of the show, has her very fertility used as a plot device, has her child snatched, is either a wife or a mother in peril, doesnt do much apart from running around pouting, and all this with her trying to shag him, in a childrens show. nice, the message that gives to young girls is warped.


Amy's dependency is psychological.  Petty

yes it was. But why make a female character psychologically scarred in the first place? She didnt pop out of nowhere, someone wrote her that way.

Roses was pure adoration and love. Which on the balance of portraying women seems shallower and more misogynistic to me. Petty

Rose was much much more than that and anyone who says different is being a bit of a Bomby.

I know this is going to be a long post, but I cant apologise for that as I think Amy is such a complex character, and her story so complex you cant discuss her in a small space of words, so I am not even going to try.

I will comment on the Rose bit first.

Yes there can be more to Rose, she has some good episodes. She can be hugely compassionate. She is brave and determined and loyal.
But there is also no denying she is as self centred as a gyroscope where the Doctor is concerned and she treats any one else who might have had a prior relationship, or might also get close to him with jealousy, and is even outright bitchiness in some cases, such as with Sarah Jane.

And whilst Rose fosters this idea about her and the Doctor she still has poor Mickey strung along in the background, she picks up that guy in the Dalek episode and then dumps him a couple of episodes later when he is not good enough to instantly cope with time travel, and she flirts outrageously with Captain Jack and tells him she is 'free and available, no, very available'.
And then there are episodes like the Cassandra one, which just seem to be an excuse for her to act sexily, rub her hands up and down her own body whenever she can, snog the Doctor, and in which the director and camera seem to have a strong affinity for filming her jiggling cleavage.
And when she leaves the Doctor it is forced upon her and not her choice, in fact she is utterly unable to do a single thing about it, it just happens to her. And then they fob her off with a duplicate Doctor so she still gets her man.

I dont happen to subscribe to Rose being sexist, but if many of the criticisms laid at Amy's door are applied with equal zest to Rose she does not come out to well from it. There seems to me to be an unfair charge of sexism laid at Moffat that is ignored when it crops up in the RTD era.

And now to the meat of the thing. Amy. And indeed her pregnancy which is the most contentious aspect for sure.

"Whether she comes out of her shell or not is besides the point"

I dont see how it can be beside the point when it is the point of her character arc- by resolution that is precisely what she has done- discovered who she is, what she wants, and then she claims it, making the personal sacrifice of the Doctor as she does so.
It is very much the point of Amy.

'they wrote her as having a fundamental dependence on the Doctor from childhood'

Again that was the point. That was the concept.
Moffat was trying something new with a companion, rather than a companion just being someone the Doctor encounters and who just gets dragged into his world, this one was someone hugely important to everything and who becomes important because she encounters the Doctor as a child.
The timey whimey nature of the Doctor was destined to leave her life in upheaval before either of them even know what's going on, because the cause hasn't happened yet.
It is a brave thing to attempt and owes in my view much more to Moffats love of playing with cause and effect in time in Who than it does any sexism.
Amy is a trap set in the future for the Doctor, this makes sense with River who is also a trap from the future set by the same people, the Silence, to stop the Doctor ever reaching Trenzalore - like mother like daughter in this case. Both are affected and shaped by events in the future of the story we are seeing.

And the show is still at core about the Doctor. And his story in relation to Amy is just as important (indeed in the end more important as we go on with him and see the aftermath and consequences of Amy's departure) as hers to him.
His interference in her life sparks a series of disastrous consequences he spends the rest of the time trying to put right or make up for, knowing he never can.

Her hero worship of the Doctor also shows up his worst traits, and some of his most dangerous, his vanity and need to be admired.

Making her dependent on him in the way she was, for her mental stability, made for an interesting and Doctor/companion dynamic and in Amy gave a character who had the room to grow and develop in unexpected ways stemming from the fractured nature of her childhood.
And it gave the chance to explore the dangerous dark side that sometimes surrounds the Doctor's dependency on needing companions.
Flawed people are always more interesting than normal ones I find and with Amy the Doctors presence in her life not only creates flaws but it shows up the flaws in the Doctor, a reoccurring theme in this era of Who.

She is flawed from the start because that is her story- the little girl who waited and whose imaginary friend came back.

"she then has her body taken over for most of the show"

I assume you are referring to Demons Run and her pregnancy. Well its not most of the show, or even half the show, or even a quarter of the show, its 5 stories, the first half of series 6.
Nor does she have her body taken over as such. Her body is in a top medical facility. Her mind is being transmitted into her flesh avatar duplicate, so for the period of her captivity she is unaware she is captive.

'has her very fertility used as a plot device'

It seems clear to me that Moffat knew from the start Amy was Rivers mothers. There are too many little tells in the scripting, and certainly its clear on a rewatch he knew by the time of series 5 two part Angel story, and Rivers first appearance, as its full of mother/daughter moments with hindsight. Moffat doing one of the things he does best in his writing; hiding things in plain sight.

So in that sense she was always going to be a plot device for the conception of River. But to reduce her to just being a plot device for River would be unfair.
Making River the daughter of a future companion seems a cracking good Who scifi idea to me as well as explaining why she is so important to the Doctor in the future on a personal level, whch she clearly was form there first meeting in the Library.

If you object to the very notion that Amy should be Rivers mother or that birth should come into at all then that is one thing, I disagree as I think Who should tackle all manner of subjects and after all this time with female companions its surprising marriage and pregnancy has not come into before. You could even say it is an aspect of a woman's life that up till Amy Who had neglected.

"has her child snatched"

This is true she does. River is kidnapped in order to be conditioned to be the perfect weapon to kill the Doctor.
And it is hugely painful for Amy and Rory, but Amy in particular.
But the emotional fall out of it is dealt with in a typically brave story telling way that perhaps only Who can do.
Who is not EastEnders. Kitchen sink style drama and lamenting and grieving for the loss of her child would not fit Who, or be in it story telling vein.
The story in which they dealt with the fall out from the loss of the child was so good at presenting it as the underlying theme that many people missed the underlying theme all together in regards to River.
The episode was one of the best of series 6 in most peoples eyes, The Girl who Waited. In which we are given a story in which Amy is stuck in a faster time stream,the rescue attempt goes wrong and the Amy they encounter is 30 years older and bitter.
But her humanity is reborn through her love for Rory, and him for her. But in the end it turns out the Doctor was lying, the old and young Amy cannot coexist and Rory must choose which one he saves and which one he kills by wiping one from existence.
He rebukes the Doctor in that moment with "This isn't fair! You are turning me into you."
This episode cleverly explorers the River problem without ever directly referencing it It demonstrates how Amy and Rory can understand the River problem and see they have to live with it on an emotional level because the emotional price of the alternative is too high.

The Doctor can decide which Amy lives and dies because the Doctor is that cold at need.
Amy and Rory are not. They are too human for that. If they go back and rescue their baby then the River they know is gone, just as surely as old Amy.

"But she exists, she is real!"

As is River, and Amy and Rory can't act as the Doctor does and live with the consequences. So they have to accept that they will never see their daughter as an infant, ever.
His harsh, but I think its also powerful drama and highlighting the fundamental emotional problem through the story of The Girl Who Waited is a brilliantly unique Who way of dealing with the emotional story underneath it.

Amy bears the burden because she understand why she has to, but she doesn't like it, and she is certainly filled with a pent up anger and resentment over it that never goes away and finally emerges in the cold blooded killing of Madame Kovarian.

The way the story of River and of Amy's reaction to River and the loss of her child is played out I think gives Amy extra depth and complexity.
I have said before I think she is the most complex companion in Who's 50 year run.
She is intelligent enough to understand the situation with her baby, and the consequences of altering it, and she is strong enough to live with having to bear the knowledge that her child is lost to her until River grows up, but she rages enough within over it that she commits murder as a result of it.

I find that an intriguing, dynamic character. Neither right nor wrong, not justified but not without justification either.
Certainly she is not just a sexist stereotype whose body was just co-opted as a cheap plot device and nothing more. The event shave meaning and consequences.

And of course all of it plays further into the Doctors growing sense of guilt over Amy and his inability to correct it without making matters ever worse. Which leads into the events of the God Complex where his guilt comes to a head, and Amy and Rory begin their new life together with the Doctor just dropping in every so often.

A lot of development happens for all the main characters as a result of Demons Run and Amy's abduction. Leading to fundamental changes in their relationships and the dynamic between all three leads


'is either a wife or a mother in peril'

Amy doesn't get married until the end of series 5 and she doesn't really accept her role as wife until the God Complex, 3/4 of the way through series 6 and the start of her and Rory living a more normal life together.
It marks the start for her of accepting responsibility for her own life and not relying or looking to the Doctor to sort everything for her.
I dont know where you get mother in peril from. She is only a mother in peril once, in A Good Man Goes to War when she has been abducted.
Rose by contrast was often in peril and needing saved- the sun screen, the air ballon, having her face wiped off, there are loads of examples.

'doesnt do much apart from running around pouting'

In general its Amy who comes up with the ideas- see Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, Beast Below, Victory of the Daleks, Amy's Choice, Vincent and the Doctor, Curse of the Black Spot,  the Power of Three, Angles Take Manhattan, all examples off the top of my head of where Amy has a crucial role in the outcome or creates the successful outcome by her actions.


'and all this with her trying to shag him'

It happens once, so hardly 'all this'- she makes a very forward pass at him on one occasion. And it fails. Yes Amy is flirty, its part of her defences. Rose was flirty too, look her behaviour with Jack.
I only wish the Doctors dawning horror at what Amy means had been present when Rose was trying it on.

'in a childrens show'

No its a family show that has to have stuff working on more than one level for more than one age group. Its always done this, as far back as the implied rape in the second Doctor run.

'the message that gives to young girls is warped'

If they are young enough the adult part of the scene should entirely pass them by, and it would look very much a playground sort of thing. The Doctor especially would help sell that impression as he reacts very much to idea of snogging like a six year old boy would- with a screwed up face of revulsion and a cry of gross!
Only adults would actually get the sexual references, same as only adults get the sexual references around Captain Jack in the RTD era and who he likes to dance with.


'But why make a female character psychologically scarred in the first place?'

Hopefully Ive answered that- because it makes for a fresh, new sort of intriguing companion in a style never attempted before. Because flawed and damaged by the irresponsible actions of the Doctor is an interesting concept to explore regarding how it effects both their characters.
And she had to be female because part of the plan was for the next companion to turn out to be the mother of River Song.
And because after Rose and Martha doing the falling in love with the Doctor thing, and Donna cornering the market in just a mate you have laugh with it needed something new.
Its typical of Moffat he took a gamble and went for completely new.

These gifs do a reasonable job of highlighting some of the many facets of Amy, as well as rebuking the charge she ever does anything-

Wow Petty, that was almost as long as the penis-words list.

I understand that the concept is clever, (quite clever, perhaps too clever), though I'm don't always see all the depth that you do. Some of the plot twists I'm convinced are just in there because they're clever and shocking.

I love cleverness when it's properly served up, the best of the Sherlock episodes for example. But especially when you're taking on a subject as sensitive as dependence and reproductive rights, you'd better be damn sure your writing is up to the task or you can expect to inspire a flood of crabbit.

There was a lot to enjoy in the whole Amy/Rory series, but from my point of view they went a bridge too far in the ambitiousness of the concept vs. their ability to deliver. The ire of Mrs Figg, Amarië and others is the fair price they pay for their hubris.

The Rose stories in contrast are more simply constructed and therefore better suited to the writing. I remember being irritated by Rose at times, especially the way she treated Micky, but I don't seem to remember ever being irritated by the feeling that the writers were f***ing with me for their own amusement like I did with Amy Rory and this last Sherlock. For me it's not about feminism, it's about storytelling.

But enough of this. I hope it makes sense. It's the 4th of July and I've been drinking a bit  

Happy 4th everybody!