Doctor Who [8]

"Did you say you just watched through the Tom Baker years? I would be interested to hear which episodes you felt stood out."- Blue


Despite some of the worst effects the Ark in Space has a great story to tell and in common with Matt Smith Baker is remarkably assured and 'in' the role for only the second story of his tenure.

I like the Sontaran Experiment too, its short, sharp to the point and you get a good Sontaran in it. The robot thing is pretty poor mind you but that aside a good solid single standalone story.

Terror of the Zygons is worth a mention too, for all sorts of reasons, from the audacity of the plot to the inability of the effects budget to realise it, to dodgy Scottish accents and locations (they couldn't even afford to go north of the border to shoot it and England, where they did shoot it, doesnt look much like Scotland) but the bad guys are instant classics, and the plot is quirky and full of fresh ideas well implemented.

Pyramids of Mars is good stuff too with a wonderfully over the top villian and a good battle of wits and minds with the Doctor.

I liked the Frankenstein monster take of Brain of Morbius, and the extra information it added tot he Time Lord story, its a bit padded in places but overall got a nice mix of campness and genuinely dark and sinister ones. And some great one liners from the Doctor too.

Seeds of Doom is fun too, reminds me in style of the Day of the Triffids, Midwich Cuckoos British scifi writing.

I like the idea and aesthetics in Robots of Death but the execution is a little clunky in places.

Talons of Weing Chang has much to frown at form a modern perspective but its just such an enjoyable romp its hard to hold the prejudices f the time it was made against it.

Horror of Fang Rock I have spoken about before.

Pirate Planet is fun if so camp you might expect to find an entire Scout troop in it. But its full of Douglas Adams wit and theres a solid scifi idea driving the whole thing.

And I didn't exactly enjoy Logopolis, but I did enjoy the high concepts about mathematics and entropy in the universe and I like the Master in it, but for a regen episode and the finale of Bakers long time on the show its oddly unsatisfying. And I never took much to the Watcher idea either.

But the two stand outs for me, and if I had to recommend only two to watch form that era it would be Genesis of the Daleks and City of Fear.
One demonstrates Who doing the darker, more intellectual side of the show, and the other the fun, the silly and the far out concepts.

   

This isnt short I grant you, and I havent a clue what the first song is on about, or even what language its in (although i like it), however it is a rather nice way of through vision and music showing all the things about Who over its 50 years that all eras have in common and share-

Pettytyrant101 wrote:"Did you say you just watched through the Tom Baker years? I would be interested to hear which episodes you felt stood out."- Blue


Despite some of the worst effects the Ark in Space has a great story to tell and in common with Matt Smith Baker is remarkably assured and 'in' the role for only the second story of his tenure.

I like the Sontaran Experiment too, its short, sharp to the point and you get a good Sontaran in it. The robot thing is pretty poor mind you but that aside a good solid single standalone story.

Terror of the Zygons is worth a mention too, for all sorts of reasons, from the audacity of the plot to the inability of the effects budget to realise it, to dodgy Scottish accents and locations (they couldn't even afford to go north of the border to shoot it and England, where they did shoot it, doesnt look much like Scotland) but the bad guys are instant classics, and the plot is quirky and full of fresh ideas well implemented.

Pyramids of Mars is good stuff too with a wonderfully over the top villian and a good battle of wits and minds with the Doctor.

I liked the Frankenstein monster take of Brain of Morbius, and the extra information it added tot he Time Lord story, its a bit padded in places but overall got a nice mix of campness and genuinely dark and sinister ones. And some great one liners from the Doctor too.

Seeds of Doom is fun too, reminds me in style of the Day of the Triffids, Midwich Cuckoos British scifi writing.

I like the idea and aesthetics in Robots of Death but the execution is a little clunky in places.

Talons of Weing Chang has much to frown at form a modern perspective but its just such an enjoyable romp its hard to hold the prejudices f the time it was made against it.

Horror of Fang Rock I have spoken about before.

Pirate Planet is fun if so camp you might expect to find an entire Scout troop in it. But its full of Douglas Adams wit and theres a solid scifi idea driving the whole thing.

And I didn't exactly enjoy Logopolis, but I did enjoy the high concepts about mathematics and entropy in the universe and I like the Master in it, but for a regen episode and the finale of Bakers long time on the show its oddly unsatisfying. And I never took much to the Watcher idea either.

But the two stand outs for me, and if I had to recommend only two to watch form that era it would be Genesis of the Daleks and City of Fear.
One demonstrates Who doing the darker, more intellectual side of the show, and the other the fun, the silly and the far out concepts.

Thank you for the feedback, Petty.   

We could probably do a discussion on each episode, but I started and it got a bit long.   I do on the whole completely agree with you. I have a real positive feeling about all those episodes, except perhaps Brain of Morbious which never really caught my attention or managed to create enough atmosphere to rank as great for me.

I would also point out a few other that I really like. Like The Ribos Operation (Atmosphere in spades, though it is silly.), Masque of Mandrogara, Stones of Blood, Sun Makers and I actually quite liked Meglos.

As for the final episodes the E Space triology is not too bad, but Tom was kind of running out of steam by that point I think. Not helped by him having issues with an overactive thyroid which aged him ten years in a series and made him look rather hagard and drawn.

But there's a whole lot to enjoy there, and I don't think there are many other eras that really lives up to it in writing, scope of vision and creativity. Though the production and particularily the effects are silly at times.

Id like to see the entire 2nd Doctor run, as it seems to have been a period of fresh no ideas too and a new direction of course with first time there was a new actor in the role.
But yeah overall there is a lot to like about Baker era and certainly out of classic Who it is the most constant in quality across its run, which considering its the longest run of all Doctors to date is quite an achievement.

Yeah, we're pretty much in agreement on that.  

Strange thing is I didn't start watching that era of Doctor Who because of the new series, but because I stumbled over Tom Baker elsewhere. The same with Benedict Cumberbatch. I started watching Sherlock because I saw him and liked him in something else.

I found the description of Toms era on the BBC website quite amusing:

Tom Baker: 1974 - 1981

Teeth and curls. Jelly babies. Lovable robot dog. Ahhhhh-har. Scarf. Have I the right? Ooh, my everything! It's the end...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/index_fourth.shtml

Noticed this was on Dailymotion- from series five- an episode that has become a bit of a modern classic and fan favourite- Vincent and the Doctor-

Not been through the whole thing yet, Petty. But I found it interesting. And I like the way it's kind of split like an old 4 parter.

It's quite reminiscent of City of Death. With the Leonardo da Vinci part. Oh, and this as well.   





Was it meant as an homage in any way?

Its a bit smaltzy for me, not surprising from the man who wrote Love Actually, Four Weddings and A funeral ect, but one must always forgive any sins there as he also gave us Blackadder! But it does have the benefit of being a good standalone with only very small ties to the ongoing story regards Roy and Amy at this point and him being wiped out, but plenty of nods to the overall series themes running under the surface.

Capaldi on Craig Fergusons chatshow in 2009 to discuss In the Loop (not that they do really, mainly they reminisce about acid trips on the streets of Glasgow and their time in a band together   ) but the amazing thing is he appears to be dressed as the 12th Doctor! Bloody timey-whimey!   

Fun vid-

Yeah, Craig Ferguson can be great.    I don't think any other chat show host would get away with telling his interview subject to shut up, insulting his audience and spending most of the interview talking about common aquaintances no one else has heard of.   

Seeing how Cipaldi will turn out will certainly be interesting.

By the way, I just saw keeper of Traken. It certainly wasn't straight forward.   

It doesnt get any more straight forward in the next two stories in the E-Space Trilogy- Logopolis and Castrovala   

Yeah, I also found it oddly rushed. Like the writer was trying to put too much story into the alloted time and in the end succeded in getting not all that much of it on screen.

Logopolis is the last Baker story I haven't seen, so it will be interesting.   I've heard good things at least. How did you find it?

Its not in my top ten, but nor do I dislike it, and I like bits of it a lot and other bits not so much. And one particular image in it fed my childhood nightmares rather well for some time!   
The concept is interesting, but a bit, distant somehow, to the audience. I didnt understand that side of the episode at all as a kid on first viewing, and Im not sure I do now either.

But I dont want to say more now for fear of spoilers- but I look forward to hearing what you make of it.

Oh, interesting. I'll let you know how I find it.   

Well, that certainly wasn't straight forward either, but there were a lot of stories like that with Bidmead as script editor. Warriors Gate for one.

I did feel there were some interesting concepts. But particularily the first two episodes felt very much like padding. Almost written just to pass the time until the actual story started.

A bit bewildered as to why it has such a good reputation, though there are certainly good stuff in there too.

Oh, and of course a bit sad to see Tom go.

Its certainly leaning towards the hard scifi end of the Who scale.

I still find the living corpse that is the Master in this one pretty horrible, not as bad as when I was a kid, but its still pretty unpleasant even as an adult.   

I  still didn't really understand what they were going for with the whole Watcher thing. But if anything else it makes 4th regen quite unique.

You still got the last part of the trilogy Castrovala to go?
Its an early example of a timey-whimey episode.

Yeah, the watcher thing became a bit abstract.

I quite liked the holding the Universe to ransome thing, but the episode used an eternity to get there and didn't get much mileage out of it.

Ah, you didn't like that Master incarnation. He featured quite prominently in Deadly Assasin too didn't he? Though that became quite a devisive episode for other reasons. Did you see that as a kid as well? Would be interest to hear how you reacted to it if that is the case.

I saw everything from towards the end of the Pertwee era onwards as a kid.
And yeah the 'undead' corpse version of the Master freaked me out in all of its appearances!   

What did you think about the drowning cliffhanger?

At the time I remember it being quite shocking, and left you in a state of panick for the next episode- as a good cliffhanger should.

Its ridiculous to me that the BBC actually removed the ending from the original master tape in the face of outcry form some quarters that it was too violent, so that the version available now is reconstructed from recordings made at the time.

It certainly made a stir. And it pretty much lost Phillip Hincliffe his job as producer. A reaction a bit out of proportion.

While it might be a little scary to kids, it's a strong emotional moment that gives the series emotional depth. That they were rather brave to put in, I think.

Though having to wait a week to see wether the Doctor was alive might have been a bit different. Though as Tom Baker likes to remark, the one thing one goes in knowing in Doctor Who is that the Doctor will inevitably win. So the audience knows he's never in any real danger. That scene might have stretched that concept to the limit however.

Hey, everyone, just wanted to ask something:
I recently bought the 50th anniversary soundtrack collection and along with the CD's there came a beautiful booklet with pictures of all the Doctors. And in every picture you can see a different Doctor and a certain stellar constellation as well. Does anyone of you know whether they're of any significance?

You can see the constellation of the Gemini and the first Doctor
Taurus and the second Doctor
Sagittarus - 3rd Doctor
Virgo - 4th Doctor
Capricorn - 5th Doctor
Libra - 6th Doctor
Aries - 7th Doctor
Scorpius - 8th Doctor
Leo - 9th Doctor (no War-Doctor)
Cancer - 10th Doctor
Aquarius - 11th Doctor

Can anyone of you figure out whether there's some meaning behind this or if it was just a random selection?

Thats got me stumped   

I shall have to do some digging!


edit add- nothing on the TARDIS DATA CORE WIKI- only zodiac reference I can find in relation to Who is -

'Humans and Draconians each used Zodiac signs in their astrology, as did the inhabitants of the planet Ventiplex'

Not very helpful!