Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]

by Beleg Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:43 pm

Eldorion wrote:That last point is a really good one, Beleg, and not something I'd considered before. I'm glad you brought it up. Though reflecting on it, it's not terribly surprising since PJ has never been one to play his cards close to his chest when it comes to building suspense or having surprises on screen.

I'm sure PJ is very pleased with himself and his continuous chase scenes, but it is definitely a missed opportunity. Of course the greatest missed opportunity was the opportunity to be faithful to Tolkien but also to take the unsuspecting viewers from elation over Smaug's demise to the wonder of reclaiming Erebor, to the tension and possible war between the Dwarves, Men and Elves to the sudden realization that the dwarves, men and elves (and poor little Bilbo) have a whole lot more to worry about than squabbling over money.

by bungobaggins Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:33 pm

Well, looks like I'll be seeing DOS by myself. #gofigure

Plan to go afternoon of the 14th, but my local theater doesn't have showtimes up for that date yet, so I can't purchase a ticket yet.

by Tinuviel Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:44 pm

I'm officially going at midnight on the twelfth, and I'll try to get a review up as soon as I can!!

by Beleg Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:06 pm

I probably won't bother until after Christmas. No way I'm standing in line for this. Going to try to figure out how to see it for free too so I don't give PJ any more money.

by Beleg Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:54 pm

Eldorion wrote:
bungobaggins wrote:I'm fairly positive that Lee Pace mentioned in an interview that Thrandy was part of the "Serpent Wars" and had fought dragons. More made up stuff I would assume.
First I've heard of that, but a few minutes on Google and...

Lee Pace wrote:He’s more complex, he’s very complex. Maybe because I’m the actor who plays him, I understand him and I agree with him. I agree with everything he does. In the prologue, he turns away when the dragon comes. Would you do any differently? This is a dragon. He knows. He’s fought dragons, he was part of the big serpent wars, he knows how hard they are to kill.
Source (courtesy of Heirs of Durin and the Thranduilings tumblr)

This is close to an "attacks were made on Rivendell" moment. :lol:My best guess is that this invented conflict has something to do with the dragons of the Withered Heath, which is fairly close to northern Mirkwood and was the main abode of dragons after the First Age.

I just saw a TV commercial for the movie in which Thranduil leans into Thorin's face and says "do not speak to me of dragon fire!"

So is there anything at all in Tolkien lore that would indicate that Thranduil has first hand experience with dragons or that he suffered great loss as a result of "dragon fire"?

by Radaghast Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:08 am

Beleg wrote:So is there anything at all in Tolkien lore that would indicate that Thranduil has first hand experience with dragons or that he suffered great loss as a result of "dragon fire"?

Nope, not a single word. I could be wrong about that, but I'm willing to go out on a limb. And if there was, Tolkien would hardly have failed to mention it in TH.

Either way, this looks like a lot of expansion on Tolkien's mythology for no good reason at all.

by RA Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:26 am

To be fair, Thranduil's name isn't even mentioned in the Hobbit at all. But I agree, Thranduil's apparent experience with dragons is a strange addition.

by Radaghast Sun Dec 08, 2013 12:58 am

True. I'm guessing the name didn't even exist before LotR, which would have made it odd for Tolkien to have written anything about him fighting dragons later.

Anyway, I haven't been able to find any "Serpent Wars" and I can't believe I'm even giving PJ the benefit of the doubt. I almost can't believe PJ is shoehorning this garbage into the mythology without having to write it.

Dirty Jacksons! We hateses its forever!!!

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:54 am

Looking forward to reading your review Tin- I'll have the buckie on standby!

Pj- on Smaug-

"He’s really the Hannibal Lecter of the dragon world. All of that is to some degree in Tolkien’s book, but we really focused it razor-sharp for the movie.”

Very telling phrase in the mouth of PJ- "to some degree"!

"For 200 years, he’s been there on this pile of gold waiting for someone to come, just sitting there doing crossword puzzles and catching up on Breaking Bad seasons on Netflix. He hasn't got much else to do".

“I thought, ‘The one thing that would surprise me is if he lifts his head out of the gold and, instead of his head being two or three feet long, his head is the size of a bus and his body is the size of a 747. That would be pretty scary.’ So I thought, ‘OK, we’ll go with size".

Understatement and restrain- the PJ hallmarks! Rolling Eyes

by Bluebottle Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:17 pm

You know what you get with Peter Jackson at least.

A straight forward misunderstanding of Tolkiens work. Laughing

by Eldorion Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:15 pm

Tinuviel wrote:I'm officially going at midnight on the twelfth, and I'll try to get a review up as soon as I can!!

I look forward to it! cheers

I can't go to the midnight release because I work the opening shift on both Friday and Saturday, but I plan to go after work (about noon) on Friday, December 13, which is still opening day. Nod

I'll try to post my own review shortly after that.

by bungobaggins Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:33 pm

"For 200 years, he’s been there on this pile of gold waiting for someone to come, just sitting there doing crossword puzzles and catching up on Breaking Bad seasons on Netflix. He hasn't got much else to do".

Sorry, PJ, but your dragon isn't cool enough to watch Breaking Bad.

by Mrs Figg Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:46 pm

bungobaggins wrote:
"For 200 years, he’s been there on this pile of gold waiting for someone to come, just sitting there doing crossword puzzles and catching up on Breaking Bad seasons on Netflix. He hasn't got much else to do".
Sorry, PJ, but your dragon isn't cool enough to watch Breaking Bad.

you tell him Bungo Cool

by Radaghast Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:49 pm

Peter Jackson wrote:"He’s really the Hannibal Lecter of the dragon world. All of that is to some degree in Tolkien’s book, but we really focused it razor-sharp for the movie.”

Wow, that's pretty stupid.

by bungobaggins Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:55 pm

She's looking to satisfy her dwarf fetish.

by Tinuviel Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:44 pm

I recently read about Thranduil in UT, just to try and know more about him. He first gets mention fighting with his father in the first alliance against Sauron, in which his father dies and he takes up rule of Greenwood, where he decides to close off his borders and not visit their kin in Lothlorien for a while. There was absolutely no mention of him fighting dragons.

by Bluebottle Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:47 pm

Yes, that seems about right.

Though one can't rule out that Thranduil did not fight dragons in Beleriand in the First Age, it most likely has no basis in Tolkien.

So more fanfiction then. Rolling Eyes

by bungobaggins Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:49 pm

Oh, yes, the "we're not told that it explicitly didn't happen so there's a chance that it could have happened!" rationalization. Rolling Eyes

by Eldorion Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:26 am

We had heard that Stephen Colbert's Hobbit cameo would not occur until DOS, but the latest word is that he and his wife and two kids will appear in Lake-town at some point in the film. Keep your eyes peeled. Very Happy

http://www.hypable.com/2013/12/06/stephen-colbert-hobbit-cameo-scene/

Also, we've already learned that PJ's cameo will be at the very start of the film...

Spoiler:

by Tinuviel Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:21 am

Let's just tie this movie back to LOTR even MORE!

Maybe he'll deviate this time and be eating a radish instead of a carrot

by Norc Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:27 am

mainly talking smaug Smile

by Forest Shepherd Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:57 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
"For 200 years, he’s been there on this pile of gold waiting for someone to come, just sitting there doing crossword puzzles and catching up on Breaking Bad seasons on Netflix. He hasn't got much else to do".

I've mentioned before how annoying this type of interview-talk is. By presenting story ideas in dumbed-down terms, the audience is led to believe that whatever the "expert" says is lore-based and makes sense.
IN REALITY (Tolken's writing), Dale was not immediately abandoned when Smaug conquered the mountain, and its decline was gradual, not climactic. Smaug has not been simply sitting on his gold for all the time since he arrived. At there very least, he leaves his lair for food sometimes.
There is some mention in the book about how Smaug would come forth to Dale now and then to carry off some unlucky soul for a snack, and how he had a penchant for maidens in particular. Razz

by Bluebottle Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:11 am

Norc wrote:mainly talking smaug

He certainly sounds a lot more like Smaug than I expected. Very Happy

Which would make the changes they made to his voice in production smaller as well. I find that far preferable. Nod

As to why Armatige had the time to stop by and watch Benedict perform, but they couldn't find the time for him and Freeman to record their dialogue together I'm still completely mystified. Rolling Eyes

by Norc Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:52 pm

probably a logic explanation Shrugging

by halfwise Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:25 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:IN REALITY (Tolken's writing), Dale was not immediately abandoned when Smaug conquered the mountain, and its decline was gradual, not climactic. Smaug has not been simply sitting on his gold for all the time since he arrived. At there very least, he leaves his lair for food sometimes.
There is some mention in the book about how Smaug would come forth to Dale now and then to carry off some unlucky soul for a snack, and how he had a penchant for maidens in particular.

Glad you mentioned this Forest, I had forgotten myself. Hardy breed, these Dalings.