Re: The Desolation of Smaug pre-release thread [3] [SPOILERS]

[Eldorion]

They could have stuck with two movies and still only been 90 minutes each which would have worked just fine for me.

I'm really not sure that would have been enough time.  My dream version of The Hobbit is one four hour movie with no White Council or other LOTR-izing elements.  I suppose three hours total might work though; I haven't put that much thought into it.

[Mrs Figg]

I am banking on Thranduil in his palace being the saving grace of the film,unfortunately he seems to share scenes with chubbychops Legolas and Planktauriel

[Eldorion]

Sorry, Eldo. I wasn't saying you were complaining, but I was commenting on internet comments that I've seen over the past few weeks that have reeked of angst in regards to getting a 3 hour film. I should have clarified.

I still would have preferred 2 or 1 movie(s).

No problem bungo. I haven't been reading other Tolkien forums as much as I usually do, since I've been fairly busy IRL, so I appreciate your elaboration.

[Pettytyrant101]

After AUJ and the trailers for DOS I am wishing they had not bothered at all.

[Bluebottle]

I'm certainly not complaining that the films are too short.

Well, I wouldn't either Eldo. The problem for me is really what they are filling those hours with. Something they did not show good taste for in AUJ, and by all reports will not be showing this time around either.

[Eldorion]

After AUJ and the trailers for DOS I am wishing they had not bothered at all.

Honestly I was never clamoring for a movie version of The Hobbit.  There's a lot of stuff that works in the book that I don't think would translate well on screen, at least not in live-action.  Stuff like the talking purse (sorry Malickfan) or singing goblins and the like.  Similar elements in LOTR, especially in Book I, could be excised with minimal impact on the overall story, but these elements are a big part of the charm of The Hobbit.  Although once PJ's LOTR movies became a major hit, it was inevitable that The Hobbit would be wrung out until it became a PG-13 action/adventure blockbuster anyway..

[Pettytyrant101]

I actually think the singing goblins could, and should have been terrifying, that would offset any consideration of the fact they are singing at all- and its a terrifying enough song being basically a series of onomatopoeic words.

[Bluebottle]

And considering how Goblin Town mostly came over as a computer game. How could it really have been any worse?

[bungobaggins]

Speaking of running time, a few days ago I was thinking of getting my parents to watch AUJ, just to see what they would think of it. They took me to the theater to see all the LOTR movies, they knew I loved the books, and I think they enjoyed the movies too. But now that I'm much older I don't need a ride to the cinema, so they never saw AUJ last year (they rarely go to movies (as do I, but much less than me)).

Then I thought about how long it is, nearly three hours, and would they be able to follow the story? I'm sure I'd have to answer questions at the end. Would they even enjoy it?

So I brought it up yesterday when we were getting ready for thanksgiving dinner, and my mom said, "Oh, your father will fall asleep." And the general consensus was that it was too long to sit and watch. So, they haven't seen it yet. Don't think they ever will, either.

It's interesting that for some people, a long, imposing running time like that can turn them off to a movie. It just seems to be the PJ fan-nuts who were spoiled with a 3.5 hour FOTR, 3.75 hour TTT, and 4.5 hour ROTK, who are obsessed with having 3 hour or longer movies.

[Eldorion]

When I was younger I would sometimes say "I love long movies!", but there's nothing intrinsically better about them.  If a movie has a good reason to be long, usually because it's trying to tell a long or involved story or because it benefits from slow pacing, then long movies are great.  But if you're just making it long for the sake of being long or because you lack self-control in the editing room, then long movies suck.

[Pettytyrant101]

Personally I think the ideal running time for most films should be between 1 hour 30 and 2 hours max. Only particular type of films that justify the extra length for story reasons should be longer.

[bungobaggins]

Ha! I said the same thing too. (But you wouldn't have caught me sitting down to watch Ben-Hur or Ten Commandments.)

I think it might also have something to do with constantly rewriting the script, and not really knowing the direction of your film AS YOU ARE IN THE PROCESS OF FILMING IT.

[bungobaggins]

DOS soundtrack has leaked (the non-special edition). I'm acquiring it at the moment. If anyone's interested I can post my comments and thoughts after I've given it a good listen.

[Mrs Figg]

I wanted FOTR to last at least two hours longer, TTT was probably ok, and ROTK at least an hour longer.

[bungobaggins]

I've listened to most of the soundtrack, it's definitely an improvement over AUJ.

There's a lot of new stuff, and a lot of expanded stuff from AUJ that was new.

However, any music associated with Bilbo basically takes a back seat to Thorin/Erebor music. Let's face it, this really isn't Bilbo's story.

There's also a lot of Mordor/Sauron music, which shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. One section on the track "A Spell of Concealment" sound like it has been tracked from this moment in ROTK.



I haven't heard the Misty Mountains theme yet. Which is fantastic.

Edit: I can also say with much certainty that the barrel sequence/elf pursuit/orc attack is going to go on for too long. I get bored listening to the track. It starts off great for the first two minutes or so, but gets tiresome.

[Eldorion]

Just wanted to say that I appreciate your music analysis posts, bungo. I'm glad to hear that the soundtrack is an improvement over AUJ. I'll probably hold off on listening to it myself, but I'm feeling more optimistic about it now.

[bungobaggins]

Thanks, Eldo.  

Some other highlights I will mention.

"Flies and Spiders" is rather good. The beginning has some beautiful vocal music, which is (and I'm guessing) Bilbo's moment at the top of the trees in Mirkwood. The rest is really menacing, with angular melodies and clusters. This should be a fun sequence in the movie, and I'm sure Jackson won't fail to deliver some terrifying spider visuals. Overall, the music is frantic and there are some Psychoesque string stabs (think shower scene from Psycho) and fluttering brass. The Ring theme does occur near the end of this track.

"The High Fells" is another good track, and features a beautiful vocal solo (boy soprano, I think). There's a lot more vocal music in the DOS soundtrack, and it's much welcome. Of course, here we hear the "Threat of Mordor" theme briefly (I think that's what it's called).

For the final act of the film, expect a saturation of the Smaug theme. It's not played every other second, but it is very prominent (and it is sometimes heard on what sounds to me like a gamelan, not sure if that's correct though). Some haunting vocals on "My Armor is Iron" too. Not sure where these will fit in the film though, towards the end I'm sure, but it doesn't sound like an ending.

Overall, I'd expect a better score (that is, if it has not been tampered with in the last few days). What some people are referring to as Tauriel's theme (although I think it might be for the Mirkwood elves in general) is actually quite good, and I like how Shore has incorporated it into the track "The Forest River."

The real test will be to see how the music enhances the visuals. That is the purpose of film music. So, I'll say that, overall, I've enjoyed listening to the soundtrack (and have found some moments that I really like), but I'll reserve final judgement for when I see the movie (a novel idea isn't it?  ).

All this gives me hope that I can find some enjoyment in the movie.

[bungobaggins]

World premiere is this Monday. We'll probably be getting first reactions from people shortly after (these will probably be mostly enthusiastic to generate hype), but no reviews until the embargo lifts, and I'm not sure when that will be.

[Eldorion]

Only 11 days before wide release (or nine for Fjordians) seems kinda late for the world premiere. I watched part of the AUJ premiere festivities streaming online.  That sort of thing is fun to watch if you're really excited about the film (I ate up all the stuff for the last Harry Potter movie), but otherwise it's kinda dull.  Unfortunately you can't trust impressions from premieres because they are, without fail, overwhelmingly positive and blind to any flaws the movie might have.  This isn't exclusive to The Hobbit or anything, but the sort of people who will wait in line for a premiere are usually going to love the film no matter what.  Plus the excitement of being at a big event like that is infectious.

Last year the review embargo broke on December 3, but the AUJ premiere was in late November.  I'd expect to start seeing reviews no later than a week before wide release in the US, though.

[Mrs Figg]

I think that last song is going to be good but I cant find it. Beyond the Forest. it sounds nice.

[Bluebottle]

Here you go, Figg:

[malickfan]

Wow I just realized how indifferent I am to the film-I can't even be bothered to listen to the leaked soundtrack...

Still good to know Shore is back to his best.

[Mrs Figg]

oooo thanks Blue. thats gorgeous music.  

you are right Malick Shore is certainly on form. I must say I didnt know the film comes out in just 11 days. I hadnt really been bothering. I reckon at least it will sound nice though.

[malickfan]

Maybe that's the best way-we can have the nice scenery and cinematography for the visuals, Petty's Hobbit rewrite/parody script for the screenplay and Howard Shore's music for the sound/blocking out Tauriel's dialogue.

Crikey, 11 days? Time flies when your are being crabbit!!

[azriel]

Im more excited about putting up my Christmas tree than going to the cinema to sleep through The Hobbit round 2, It was only cos my son reminded me of it that I thought "shit,thats £10 wasted" Still, I love the ambiance of Cinema, getting munch cheap from Poundland cos the cinema is to expensive, sitting on my coat cos the seating has worn down to bare framework, hissing at students who keep playing with their mobys & speaking in their own language....constantly, Oh & stapling my eyelids open because,after all, this IS Peter bloody Jackson "in the land of the fairies more than the Elves are!"