All things sporting

I don't want anything Lance, I'm not a big tennis fan.
But it's not like I am the only person to have noticed this trend- which is why Newsnight made a joke out of it the night before the final-the quote I gave above which starts calling him a Brit and switches to Scot when he looses was from the BBC themselves immediately after the final.
Another interesting comparison is between the Scottish Sun and the English Sun's coverage.
As for the crowd, what I saw of it this year they seemed to be full square behind him, but its not long ago there was outcry when the press renamed Hendman Hill into Murray Mound. And when he first appeared on the scene following Hendman he got a lot of stick in the english press who just cannot understand the crabbit! They called him (and still do) all sorts that were unfair; grumpy, miserable, unsmiling, dour Scot ect- all in comparison to happy, smiling, talk to anyone but never actually winning anything Hendman.

In my own view for as long as we enter such competitions under the banner of Britain he is British end of. Him being a Scot should therefore be irrelevant and not particualry get a mention at all- yet look how often in the reports you posted it is mentioned. They wouldn't mention an English based British atheletes Englishness every time they say his name, so why continually point out Murray is a Scot? (until he wins stuff, when he miraculaously becomes a Brit!).

The BBC has incredibly biased coverage in favour of Murray. Yesterday on BBC news24 they had a reporter in Dumblane for the whole day, talking about Andy and the trauma the place has been through with locals young or old, at the pub or at the courts.
The team of presenters at Wimbledon know tennis so I've only ever heard them speak critically but constructive of Murray.

But there is a portion of society who do hate Murray (perhaps because he's Scottish who knows) who accuse him of being a bottler at best. They even exist in Wales- normally after only watching one match against Rafa-and they are all set. They may even support him up to the point of defeat.

I think they are the types of people Petty refers to-be though I have no idea how prominent it is in the media at all, because, you know, I only read respectable newspapers and tennis magazines!

Petty that's the sun- I've read ample reports today about how much effort he put in, how he made Britain proud, how his time will come etc. You will find anything if you look for it. He's stated he is both Scottish and British, and that he plays for both. Henmen was before my time a bit, so I became a tennis fan watching Murray. When a new kid on the block arrives I will be cherishing and protecting Tim in the same way!

But I really don't think his national identity is at all a problem for the vast majority of people- its just a tool that people who don't like him anyway use to justify themselves

That's part of what I mean Ally- why go to town on the fact he is Scottish at all? I can't see them doing the same for an englishman- in fact I know they wouldn't they never did for Hendman, they didn't preface the name Hendman almost everytime with 'english' the way they do Murray with 'scot'.
Its sort of like there is an attitude that because he's a Scot its somehow exotic or odd he is playing tennis, there is an attitude best summed up by : "A Scots ruffian playing a gentlemans game?! Who let him in the clubhouse? Oh he can play a bit all right, but he is not really our sort of chap is he?" type attitude under the surface which has never quite gone away.
And the most recent reporting on Wimbeldon have been playing up the British aspect strongly- which is frankly suspicous in the curent political climate- anyone ever remember another time No10 flew the saltire instead of the Union Jack, and for a sporting event? What was that about if not politics?

I didn't listen to any of the reporting of Tim so I have no idea. All of the punditry refer to him as a Brit but do not ignore his Scottish heritage because Murray has spoken of his pride of representing Britain and Scotland- why should anyone ignore either. And I highly doubt the coverage had any poltiical agenda- it seemed just about tennis to me!

The PM flies the Scottish flag over Downing Street for the first time in my memory at a time when Scottish independence is in the air and you think there was not a political element to things?
As I said as far as Wimbeldon is concerned Andy is British, he plays for Britain he represents Britain. That he is a Scot shouldn't come into it at all- win or lose he does so as a Brit in competion. So why, this year in particular, has the reporting being so keen to show him as both a Scot and a Brit? Why the flag flying over Downing Street?
I smell a political rat.

I don't think that the majority of the media means anything by talking about him being a Scot other than what Ally said. The same could be said of English athletes who are normally referred to by their town, Scousers, Mancunians, Geordies etc.

I do think that Mr Cameron is playing for the cameras though. I don't know if he is genuine, however he just doesnt come across that way to me. Like that picture of him with Merkel and Obama when Chelsea won the Champions league final. There is just something about him that always screams 'PR' even though he may be thoroughly passionate about it all.

From the BBC sporting blog:

'At the end he was bereft, reduced to tears by the realisation that it had all once again slipped away. But while it will be of little comfort to him now, in that moment another rather different battle might finally have been won.
Murray has never completely been taken to heart by the entire British sporting public.
The difference this time was the reaction from the crowd inside Centre Court - sustained applause, collectively placing an empathetic arm around the shoulder - and from those watching at home who had previously never thawed to the Scot's angular charms.
"I never thought the old boy had it in him," as one chastened spectator said wonderingly courtside.

Lance in my view a politician, particlarly a PM doesn't make a single move without considering how it will play to the cameras. Choosing to fly the saltire was not an example of Cameron just being enthusastic, it was politics I'm sure. Especially following as it did on the heels of the launch of the Unionist Campaign up here.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
As I said as far as Wimbeldon is concerned Andy is British, he plays for Britain he represents Britain. That he is a Scot shouldn't come into it at all- win or lose he does so as a Brit in competion.

If you don't mind me commenting from way up in the cheap seats, I do see a lot of what Petty seems to be talking about in the British press coverage that makes it over here.

It's similar to when Tiger Woods came onto the scene in golf. There was no doubt that he was an amazing golfer and his race shouldn't matter, but all the same there were comments on it regularly. Many in the Black community rallied around him as a roll model, or else judged him for not using his fame as a platform to crusade for people of color. I'm sure many traditional golfers were in awe of his game while secretly wondering what would happen if black men became regular members at the clubhouse. This attitude showed in comments too, especially in the rightwing press. In effect he became a lightning rod for much larger social tensions.

So I don't think your idealistic comment above is realistic, Petty. As long as there are Scots who are seeing Andy as a native son showing the world that Scotland has game, there are going to be other Brits who have to figure out how they feel about Scots in the clubhouse. Not a bad discussion to have really.

Another interesting question that has been raised by sport but is not really about sport arose today.
John Terry is in court on charges of racially abusing an opposing player.
But in fuller context what happened was the other player was winding Terry up, making hurtful and offensive remarks about a much publicised affair Terry had with another England players wife.
Terry dully got wound up and lost his temper and responded with a racist comment.

Thing that struck me is both players made comments at the other designed to hurt, offend and wind up. But because one of them used the nigger word they are in court facing criminal charges.
Yet as far as I can see, putting aside the words used, the intent of both men was exactly the same.
It raises for me the question of free speech here.
I prefer the old adage my grandfathers generation used to spout : 'I don't like what you are saying, but I'd die defending your right to say it.'
And they should know they fought a World War for it.

well Petty I think in the old days a bit of name calling would have been settled with a good old punch up, a shake of the hands and a pint afterwards. Its only in these pc days that lawyers get involved. btw racist name calling is particularly nasty though and maybe more of a deterent would be a civil case where large amounts of cash are given to the victim. I suppose they are making a public case of it to send a message out to all would be name callers to stop it.

Yes but is the law targeting the wrong thing here?- Terry is in court solely because he used a racist term in his verbal attack- but given both men were trying to be as hurtful and offensive to one another as possible should the actual words they used be the important thing here? The intent was the same for them both- to wound and cause pain with words.
Granted Terry's reposnse was not neither witty or insightful it was just something to latch onto he knew would wound. But then attacking Terry verbally for having an affair is not exactly classy or clever either.
And does it really need to end up in court?

This sort of reaction by the powers that be just drives racisim underground and out of the media eye- I prefer it in the open where it can be shown up by counter argument and debate as the poor theory it is.

what do you mean out of the public eye? its in all the tv news and papers, more in the media eye than that is impossible. I have been watching Sky news and its the big story because it has gone to court.

I think Murray is a charmless git, whether he is Scottish or from Outer Mongolia.

Petty - saying the same to my other half about it a while back. It annoys me that a) if Anton had called him some derogatory white name, it wouldnt have blown up in the same way and b) because it shouldnt be about the words used but the intent behind them. Some of the language you hear at a game is disgusting but is thought of as harmless banter even if used during a brawl. If, however, there is a passing racist whisper then all hell breaks loose.

Yeah I agree Lance, there is something out of kilter about it.

Mrs Figg- it is getting a lot of coverage but the coverage is just saying- this is bad, so bad we daren't even repeat what word he used, and you will go to court if you say it too. That does nothing to address the arguments behind racist thought and ignorances. It just makes people wary, they just use such language in trusted company instead, where there is none to gainsay them, and thats worse.
I dont know when we became a country where people have to watch what they say, or think or express without fear of being arrested- but I don't like it.

this whole thread and all the sports threads:

Found this Murray quote: "We Scots have a fierce pride in the things we do that others can never appreciate. I am the British No. 1, but I would prefer to be the British No. 1 from Scotland every time."

Sorry you guys have moved on just thought it was an interesting quote x

So long as they still swap jerseys at the end of match I'm all for womens football.

Not if they wear those dodgy sports bra vest things!

Apparently they are quite comfortable

I didnt think so!

Didn't think you'd be one of those women who preferred underwired bras- I thought you were sporty!

I am sporty! And I didn't really like the underwired ones either... possibly not enough of me to fill the one I borrowed up so was a bit awkward.

Some of these clubs are going to need a lot more bucky when Rangers visit

Poor Rangers, poor Petty...