Re: star trek thread

[Mrs Figg]

I really enjoyed the first one so if its better than that it should be very good.

[chris63]

[Ringdrotten]

Watched the 2009 ST film last night, and I can't say I was impressed. I'm sure it was a good popcorn movie at the cinemas, but on a regular TV screen the lack of an interesting plot kinda ruined it. I haven't watched any Star Trek since me and my brother used to watch The Next Generation reruns as kids, and even the few scenes and episodes I remember from that were better in my mind. Are the other ones any good (better/worth watching)?

[Eldorion]

I liked ST '09 a good deal but I thought Into Darkness was garbage. The new one this summer, Beyond, seems to be fairly polarizing but I've heard largely good things about it from people who disliked ID. Dunno what you'd think as someone who disliked the first reboot film though.

[David H]

I think if you have any fondness at all for the original series, the reboots are going to be a little hard to watch. (For example new-Spock, whatever else he may be, just isn't a Vulcan. )

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{{I haven't seen the third one on general crabbit principle, but the first two were at best middling popcorn spectacle, and at worst plot hole ridden mince. And neither of them had anything to do with ST save some names. I have heard the third is the best so far and the first third the closest they have yet got to feeling vaguely something like a ST film, but then its back to empty spectacle for the remainder}}}}}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{ Latest episode of the excellent ST continues- this one a follow up to an original series episode, enjoy (not sure how they are still making them given CBS lawyers shutting everything down- guess they somehow struck a deal!) }}

[chris63]

[chris63]

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Always thought they did a really nice job with that edition, the cgi is nice without being overpowering or totally out of context. And most importantly they didnt add a ton of cgi action sequences just because they could, they just redid the original model shots.}}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{{ Trailer for the new ST series- ST :Discovery.

1. Why do they keep going into the past of ST? - all they do is limit subject matter as so much hasn't been discovered ye tin the timeline- or like Enterprise they just screw everything up or have to keep making ridiculous excuses for why no one remembers things happening in the future!! And Enterprise was so bad it ended ST on tv- so why do another prequel?

Also it looks like the film reboots more than the TV show- I suspect the action quota will be way up, which is never been what ST is about and is the same stupid mistake the films make- at least the films have an excuse cinema us now the home of spectacle - more like a fun fair ride than drama, but TV is now the home of actual drama and real writing- and this doesn't give me much hope of being that! }}

[halfwise]

Though I've watched the redone versions and loved them, I still sort of prefer the bluish tint the starship had in the original.

[Lancebloke]

{{{{ Trailer for the new ST series- ST :Discovery.

1. Why do they keep going into the past of ST? - all they do is limit subject matter as so much hasn't been discovered ye tin the timeline- or like Enterprise they just screw everything up or have to keep making ridiculous excuses for why no one remembers things happening in the future!! And Enterprise was so bad it ended ST on tv- so why do another prequel?

Also it looks like the film reboots more than the TV show- I suspect the action quota will be way up, which is never been what ST is about and is the same stupid mistake the films make- at least the films have an excuse cinema us now the home of spectacle - more like a fun fair ride than drama, but TV is now the home of actual drama and real writing- and this doesn't give me much hope of being that! }}

Isn't it odd that big budget seems to be heading further towards more and bigger explosions resulting in generally bad ratings, whereas small budget (mainly TV) has to focus on stories and characters to get noticed and usually receives critical acclaim.

Why won't they learn?

[Forest Shepherd]

I liked the third film in the reboot, explosions and all Eldo. I'd recommend it.

[chris63]

{{{{ Trailer for the new ST series- ST :Discovery.

1. Why do they keep going into the past of ST? - all they do is limit subject matter as so much hasn't been discovered ye tin the timeline- or like Enterprise they just screw everything up or have to keep making ridiculous excuses for why no one remembers things happening in the future!! And Enterprise was so bad it ended ST on tv- so why do another prequel?

Also it looks like the film reboots more than the TV show- I suspect the action quota will be way up, which is never been what ST is about and is the same stupid mistake the films make- at least the films have an excuse cinema us now the home of spectacle - more like a fun fair ride than drama, but TV is now the home of actual drama and real writing- and this doesn't give me much hope of being that! }}

They keep going into the past, but its funny how the technology looks so much better.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Looks very expensive this new ST- still doesn't feel an awful lot like ST mind you- seems to be an awful lot of stuff exploding! }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{{ New ep of St Continues- really enjoyed it, very much the feel of a classic episode, and a nice guest star turn from a face familiar to ST TNG fans. }}

[Lancebloke]

Does he play Q? He should!!

[Pettytyrant101]

{{No, that would lead to all sorts of copyright hassles most likely. Amazing as it is CBS let them finish off their intended run of episodes at all- even then they had to cut the original series plan down by 2 episodes thanks to CBS lawyers.
Still worth a watch though- pretty much just like watching classic ST. And the most ST thingy in feel for years. Probably since DS9 the last good ST }}

[halfwise]

Star Trek Discovery was unwatchable due to clunky dialogue that told us rather than showed us what the characters were thinking. I could only last 3 minutes.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{I watched the first episode tonight with my Better Half- she fell asleep about ten minutes in.
It looks good, ie expensive, and I rather enjoyed the character of the Science Officer- easily the best character there- but boy as you say Halfy the rest was clunky- in particular the main character we are meant to be following was really boring- I couldn't tell if it was supposed to represent her being raised on Vulcan or if she is just that boring and wooden. Either way it did not make for an interesting lead character to follow.
But the main thing I disliked (apart from the, as far as I can tell, completely pointless redesign of everything Klingon) was that the Michael characters position towards Klingons was based more on what we know about them from the perspective of Trek fans having seen the 'future' than anything form the episode. It was a poor excuse- we are supposed as Trek viewers to go, 'she is right, that is how you deal with Klingons, never show any weakness'- but in the episode we are told that bar isolated raids the Klingons have supposedly been off radar for a 100 years- the entire position she takes, going against her Captain and friend hinges on an understanding of Klingon behaviour and culture she shouldn't have in the time frame the series is set.

But the main thing it lacked was fun- its too dark, too gritty and almost completely lacking in any sense of optimism about the future which St is built on.
Having said all that it was not however quite as bad as I had feared it was going to be. The Science Officer is interesting and seems better written than the rest of the Bridge disposables (as the series ship name, 'Discovery' is not even in the opening episode I assume this crew is doomed anyway bar the main lead and hopefully the Science guy, which would at least explain why the rest of the crew seem written to be disposable, they are not who we will following, nor is the Shimzue the ship we will be following I suspect) and Abrams films are still far worst travesties of ST than this is. Even with all the bad. }}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Ok watched the second episode of ST Discovery- and my assumptions were right- the first entire 2 episodes are just the set up for the main series to follow on a different ship (the Discovery naturally) and a new crew - looks like the dull as a brick main character sadly stays as the main character however, but the better written more interesting science guy seems to make it through too so thats something.
Main issue here is you spend two opening hours with a crew most of whom you will never see again, and it takes two episodes to set up, show, explain the event that will presumably form the background to this series in much the same way the Dominion War did DS9, that could easily have been set up in way less than half that time, and not wasted everyones time introducing a crew that gets ditched two episodes in, in favour of an all new one.
Also bothered by their use of Sarek, Spocks father, as a sort of mentor/surrogate father to the dull as a brick human main lead- if this had happened then Sarek would not have the attitude towards Spock and humanity later that he clearly does in TOS and TNG. It doesn't fit or make any sense- they could have created a new Vulcan for this role but seem to have felt the need to tie it to TOS and TNG even though it not only doesn't fit, it doesn't make sense for the attitudes he later presents.
Still the 'trailer' for the rest of the series now the stupidly long set up is out of the way at least looks like its a proper series- just maybe not a ST one as it still seems way off in tone to me for ST.



I also watched the 3rd episode of the Orville- and I have to say it was way, way more TOS/TNG than this is- way more- it was basically a classic TNG episode- species of all males have a freak female child- on their world a small genetic chance considered an abnormality that is 'corrected' with gender surgery after birth to make them male- the crew arent happy about that and try to change the aliens mind, there a classic ST style trial and court scene to settle the dispute. The jokes are at a minimum and with very little rewriting this could easily have been a standard episode of TNG.
What the Orville has over Discovery so far is that tone- that sense of optimism about the future that seems utterly lacking in the bleak miserably dark lens flare fuelled future of Discovery and that it feels more than Discovery like a part of the TOS/TNG universe.
Out of the two Orville is growing on me and Discovery is slipping fast! }}}

[halfwise]

Bloody waste of a comedy cast if you ask me.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Probably, in the sense that in the last episode anyway there is not a huge deal of humour and its definitely secondary to character and plot- as I said this could easily be rewritten with minimum fuss and slotted into a series of TNG and not be in the slightest out of place.
Discovery on the otherhand is supposed to link the 'Enterprise' era to the TOS era- enterprise was 100 years before Kirk but Discovery is only supposed to be 10 years before TOS- Kirk is at the Academy whilst this is going on- but the looks, tone, feel and attitudes of Discovery seem millennia away from the TOS era let alone just 10 years away }}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Think Ive worked out what is really making me crabbit most of all about Discovery- its how its been presented, and I dont just mean the dark gloomy visuals and lack of optimism in everything.
I mean structurally- the first 2 episodes should not be thought of as 2 episodes- they arent really- they are 1 film.
Not only that they are a film which is a prequel to the main series itself aboard Discovery. Hence the reason we dont so much as catch a warp nacelle of the Discovery in the show its named after, even 2 hours in.
Now this in itself might not be a terrible idea- if you presented it as such rather than as they did as two opening individual episodes- they are not they are 1 self contained story.
And therein lies the real problem- if it had been done and presented as a self contained film setting up the series they would never have gone about writing the characters as they did. The characters who seem to carry over to the main show are exactly who you know will from the episodes start because they are the only ones the writers have given two fucks about. Everyone else is written as what they are in scripting terms- temporary and disposable.
No one outside of the main characters are properly written characters, properly fleshed out. Even the ships Captain is barely more than a sketch of a character. No time is given over to getting to know them because the script knows it doesn't need to.
But that's good for 2 hours. If you are going to do it like a film then you have to treat these characters as that films main characters- all of them. Instead watch it and tell me, whats the name of the guy at the helm on the bridge who gets sent to sickbay, goes to the cells, has a conversation with the main character and then spectacularly dies? Whats he like? What sort of personality does he have? None of course. So should I give a shit when he dies? No of course not, Ive only seen the back of his head and a few perfunctory ST comments like 'aye, aye full ahead Captain' for two hours.
And everyone is like this except the characters who are obvious going to stick about for the main series. The writing dooms it from the start.
Had they instead introduced this ship as if it was going to be the main series ship, and these people our main cast, let us got to know them a bit, seen them do normal everyday stuff and duties, not just high stakes tension stuff in dim red lighting surrounded by explosions or shouty people then we might give a crap when the shit goes down for them, we might even be shocked and horrified when folk start dying.
But no, instead you get a subconscious sense as you watch this crew that you are just killing time till they get rid of this lot and move on with the story proper- but that takes 2 hours to achieve- 2 hours, most of which could be covered in probably about the first 15 minutes of an episode.
Hell you could probably do it in a text scroll- lets see now-

'It is the year 2145. For 100 years the Klingon Empire has been leaderless and without government. The 24 Great Klingon Houses in a state of constant civil war and conflict. Until now.

(cut to the scene where all the 24 houses meet introducing main bad guy and his intention to unite everyone)

In response Starfleet has sent a fleet of ships to the edge of Federation space and the disputed border with the Klingons, led by the Shinzu under the command of Captain Whathername for one last attempt to broker diplomatic relations between the Federation and the newly founded Klingon Empire.

(Cut to the confab between Shinzu and Klingons, and outbreak of war. Show conclusion. State of War now exists. Job fucking done!)

Ok not brilliant I admit, but I spent about 3 minutes writing that and no-ones paying me to try very hard. Why did I have to watch 2 hours of disposable characters being disposable to get this same information? }}}}