Re: star trek thread

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I am hopeful given his enthusiasm, the fact he based his change of heart on the effect TNG had on people, therefore it should still reflect those core Rodenberry concepts hopefully, even if the prism through which they are shown has changed.


But talking earlier of ST: Continues, for anyone who may be interested but hasn't had the time to watch all the episode, but may be curious to see how they wrapped up the famous 5 year mission, then here are the two finale episode.
Its not essential but it is helpful if you have seen the pilot episode (the Kirk one not Pike). And to a lesser degree the Romulan episode 'The Enterprise Incident'. Having seen those at some point are nice extra touches, but anything you need to know from them is explained in the plot here so neither is at all essential.

[Lancebloke]

This alongside Linda Hamilton coming back as Sarah Connor are two big announcements that give me something to look forward to watching.

Haven't looked forward to a movie or TV series in ages!!!

[Amarië]

I teared up a bit too, Halfie.

Linda Hamiton too?!?

I'm so happy!!!!

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ OK I set my self an editing challenge.
I was going to reedit ST The Motion Picture to focus it more on the plot, less on the 70's cgi. But that was bit boiring as I'd done it before.
Then I got thinking that the plot and story of Motion Picture was in fact originally a two-part pilot for a new Trek TV series called Phase Two, starring the original crew.
Sadly for that idea Star Wars came along, and 2001A Space Odessey and next thing the studio are scrapping the tv series and looking for something scifi ready to go to make some cash. And so ST got bumped up to feature film and the stooy got reworked to fill a longer running time and to try to compete with the effects of SW and 2001.
But I wondered what if that had never happeneed. What if it had been made as intended, as a 2 part tv pilot, in what would become the form used by Next Generation, Deep Space Nine and Voyager?
Would the constraints of such a format help or hinder it?

The rules were simple, adhere to the average running time for pilot episodes- no longer than 50 mins, aiming for 45. Approximetly the right amount of effects shots a tv version would afford and see what came of it.
Would it have stood up as a pilot against the other ST pilots, and as such would it have got comissioned as the others did off the back of this pilot?

What do you think? Give them a watch and let me know. }}}

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PyAV5C-bQGTfOTKx0CvQpH5MS0a4CJwn

https://drive.google.com/open?id=14lwg8hnBdownMpLUvOyGIyKaLqpBwGBv

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ No one found the time to even give an episode a go? }}

[halfwise]

Believe it or not, many of use remain busy and have our own priorities when it turns to entertainment.  I was never much a fan of that film to begin with so why spend more time with it? It's not like it was based on a good book so might be redeemed by editing.

[Pettytyrant101]

I was never much a fan of that film to begin with so why spend more time with it?- Halfy

{{That answers itself. One of the points to the experiment was to see if putting it back into a format it was originaly proposed for would it have helped or hindered it. Is it a better tv pilot than it was a film?
And if this had been made as the series pilot, instead of Encounter at Farpoint several years later, would this have got the green light? Would Trek history on TV be quite different?
And whilst I appreciate others have different stuff to watch usually alternate version of things, or new takes on them, receive some form of extra interest even from those who have seen them before, or more usually from those who have watched before specifically, well normally. I have to keep reminding myself this is Forumshire, the Tolkien dedicated site where its hard to persuade pepole to watch reedited version of Tolkien films let alone any others! }}

[halfwise]

Well I've done it for you, and all I can say is that it works better because you expect so much less from a TV show than from a film. But like many of the poorer Star Trek episodes I feel I could have done more fruitful things with that 1.5 hours.

It's not generally recommended that you waste your time polishing a turd, but if you have, you shouldn't be upset that nobody wants to buy it off you. I'd much prefer you spend your time re-editing Rogue 1, though I suppose you don't have much in the way of extra material to work with.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I think only turds are worth trying to polish as it were, its like reboots and remakes, they keep remaking already good stuff, whats the point if it was good to start with? Better to remake stuff that was a great idea but for whatever reason, money, scripting, directing, acting, whatever it didnt quite work first time out.
In terms of my own editing choices- I more often take stuff out than I put stuff in.

In the case of the Motion Picture I always felt its main issues were down to being written for one format then forced into a different shape. Rather it being down to there being anything fundementally wrong with it as a ST tale.

For me, had it gone ahead as a two part pilot for a new series it would almost certainly have got commissioned, on the basis Next Generation did only 4-5 years later off what I think turned out to be very similar ST style story; narratively and structurally.

In both Farpoint and Motion Picture you have an unknown mystery to be solved- whats at the heart of the giant cloud and what does it want in Motion, and in Farpoint how did the failry primitive inhabitants create a space station specifically tailored to Star Fleet needs in a short space of time.
In both we have new main characters, a new first officer, Will Decker in Motion, Will Riker in Farpoint, and in both cases they had been stationed previously on a planet where theyhad some sort of releationship with a female alien with unknown powers and abilities, and he had left her planet and her without saying goodbye to her, Ilea in Motion, Troi in Farpoint.
In both cases on route to the mystery they have an incident which sets up the main narrative challenges of the film- in Motion its the wormhole and Kirks unfamiliarity with the ship exposing them all to danger, his rivalry with Decker and his own insecuritites over his abilities now, in Farpoint its the appearence of Q setting up the challenge to judge mankind based off Picards actions at Farpoint. And in both cases they continue on after the event unharmed to the heart of the mystery.
In both cases it turns out to be remarkably similar, in Motion picture it turns out to be a long lost earth probe returning home looking for its creator, and it merges with and goes off into the unknown to have space babies together, it wasnt a real threat so much as misunderstood. In Farpoint the station turns out to be a shapeshfting space jellyfish, and the threat is its mate trying to save it, they were misunderstood, and they go off together into the unknown to have space babies together.
And both end with the Captain of the Enterprise on the Bridge staring into camera, and when asked wat course, replying on a variationof "out there, that way!" before ending.

Given how similar the two are in characters, structure, and feel I think therefore it is likely it would have got picked up as a series had it not been shoehorned into a film to cash in on the Star Wars/2001/ Alien vibe of the time.
In which case we might have had a few more series of ST with orginal cast but no Next Generation.}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{{ Um......



...so ST is now reduced to just being a parody of itself? }}

[Lancebloke]

It always surprises me how hit and miss the ST films were. I caught the end if Generations yesterday.... how can a film that had both Picard AND Kirk in it be that boring?

First Contact was on afterwards which is my favourite ST film.

Then Insurrection which, looking back, is actually foreshadowing the direction the Federation seems to have gone down in Picard. So maybe Picard isn't so "un-Trek" as it first seemed.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I only rate one of the ST films- Wrath of Khan, its got everything ST should have, a moral dimension with big questions being asked about the right to create and destroy life, a character study of two men, a reflection on aging, and also action and space battles and an emotional person finale that feeds into the films central themes. Its just a good piece of cinema on all levels.

Im not a First Contact fan myself, Its ok for the first bit but after that its really generic and morew than a bit dull.
And Insurrection is the weirdest ST film, in that I dont really know why it exists as its almost exactly the same story played out as in an episode of TNG (twice if you count the forced relocation of the Native Americans from their new planet, and its not done anywhere near as well as either of those episodes and is really, really dull. }}

[halfwise]

Which film had the Borg in it? I thought that one was okay. (though I may be getting it confused with TNG show, which was by far the best of the lot, often cinematic in quality).

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Thats First Contact- its well directed by Jonathon Frakes (Riker) but for me soon as they go back in time it becomes run of the mill action stuff with nothing of any real relevance to say. Does have one good scene where Picard loses it. Though its as much down to Stewarts perfomance as it is the writing. }}

[halfwise]

Alfre Woodard is pretty great in that as well.

Patrick Stewart slightly misquotes Moby Dick: "... if his chest had been a cannon [mortar], he'd have shot [burst] his [hot] heart['s shell] upon it."

Know that book nearly as well as Lord of the Rings   I'm guessing the writer thought he knew it too, and quoted without looking it up (which I did too, but was much closer than the film quote.).

[Lancebloke]

I thought it was good. Nice action scene at the start, meeting the infamous Cochrane and finding out he wasn't really the hero he was made out to be, Picardy facing his greatest personal enemy and his struggle to uphold the values he claims to have, Data facing the prospect of getting as close to his goal as ever and then seeing the first contact event.

I liked it!

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Its probably for me the 2nd best of the films, its just while Wrath used its time to explore ideas and character in a way an episode of original St would not be able to sufficinetly and used its limited budget well, I feel First Contact is not as good a story as many two part TNG episodes. I'd recommend the two parter Best of Both Worlds over First Contact every time.}}

[halfwise]

Yes, TNG had more cinema quality writing and production than the others. I think the Klingon Civil War cycle was also of film quality.

[Lancebloke]

I actually also quite like The Voyage Home. Quite a fun film.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Yeah its super fun, actually might rate it ahead of First COntact just for pure entertainment factor. }}

[chris63]

Just finished watching Star Trek Discovery series 3. Seems to get a lot of bad press, but I like it. Have watched the original Star Trek and this. Never watched any of the shows in between. Did watch Picard, thought that was pretty good as well.

[halfwise]

Much of original Star Trek is actually pretty cringeworthy in the way they continually recycle the themes of aliens who happen to mirror Earth's past, the half naked girl Kirk falls in love with, etc. It's the characters who are great, only occasionally the writing.

The Next Generation was only cringeworthy in how they kept hiring terrible actors for minor alien parts and gave them terribly written lines to say. By "minor aliens" I mean non Klingon/Romulan single episode bit parts. But the writing for Klingons especially was superb. And they had running but very subtle jokes with the android Data such as characters walking in on him intently watching a blank screen, whereupon he comments upon enjoying the poetry of the late Chronogan race for whom a major part of the structure is lacanue interspersed throughout the narrative (I'm paraphrasing). The characters get a single beat of mild reaction before continuing without comment. Anyway, I consider it the best of the spinoffs, followed closely by Deep Space Nine.

[Lancebloke]

I didnt watch Discovery. I saw a few trailers for it and it didn't look my cup of tea.

Picard confirmed to me that the direction Star Trek was being taken in wasn't for me too. It had some good moments but it wasn't really what Star Trek was all about.

Having seen more clips from Discovery from the latest season it seems Star Trek as it was originally intended is very dead.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ A long time ago, well about 7 years I think a ST fan film called Axanar- based on a famous historic battle between Federation and  Klingons that got a reference in an original ST epiosde, as the captain in that encounter, Captain Garth was one of Kirk's childhood heroes, got canned thanks to CBS clamping down on all ST fan productions (it signalled the end of the excellent ST Continues too).
However, operating under the new rules the project has gone ahead as a series of shorts insted, the first of which is out (on top of the prequel they already made years ago).
Production values, sfx are all of a very high standard.
Yet again it falls to the fans to show you can make modern ST and still make it feel like ST, and without resorting to cheap crap like having Picard say fuck or seeing Klingon tits.

Axanar is presented like a mock history documentary, which is another feature of it I really like. It also has some characters that are shaping up nicely, as the short character video illustrates well where we meet one of Scotty's heroes. Anyhow enjoy some good ST }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ So I just finished the first series of St Strange New Worlds- for those who dont know its the latest ST series and follows Captain Pike on the Enterprise prior to Kirk taking command. So Spocks there, Uhura is there as a cadet, weve had a hint of Scotty, but for most of the series its a different Engineer, and theres no McCoy, its a different Doctor (whose name was a name Doctor you hear referenced in the original ST as being on Mccoys trauma crew but you never saw him) and it has no great mission or story just the good old exploring strange new worlds and boldly going as the title implies.

In format this means its closer to OG ST or STNG in that its a separate self contained story each week with some character arc stuff that holds it all together over the series.

So and the short of it is, is it any good? And the answer shockingly is, yes, its not bad at all. In fact compared to t first any other ST since TOS its the best opening series, most consistent and has the fewest outright unwatchable awful episodes (1 by my count, compared to say TNG which has no episodes from its first series i I would rewatch or recommend to anyone).
Now thats not too say that every episode is great, or that there is the best ST youll ever see in it, there isnt, but its all enjoyable, its entertaining, its imaginative, and more than anything else it feels like classic Trek again, its not constantly dark and moody or trying to be super important, or ram some social message down your throat (its ST so stories often still do have social messages just think more OG ST than modern lecturing right at you ST and its also less one sided in its messaging - the finale for example relies on the premise that peace and giving the other person a chance might not always be a good idea, and that sometimes to save lives you have to be aggressive and take them first, its more interesting morality to explore than modern ST has dared for a very long time) its a brighter future in Trek again literally, with lots of primary colours-- the reimagined ship and uniforms work very well in retaining the classic Trek feel whilst updating the look enough for it not look too 1960's.
Cast is solid if unremarkable, I mean there is no Patrick Stewart level performances here, but there arent any bad ones either or a single character as depressingly boring, poorly written or uninteresting as that Michael or whatever she was called on Discovery who was like watching paint dry on a plank of wood.

Overall its good solid Trek, its got a fair few easter-eggs in there for classic fans, the entire finale is a love letter to one of the best early TOS episodes ever Balance of Terror, a lot of Spocks character stuff focuses on his early mating period with T'Pring and their joining, which knowing how that ends in classic ST is interesting to see unfold and gives them the ability to show different aspects of Spock without it feeling like its breaking stuff as its within the bounds original set out for his character. They do play up the Nurse Chapel/Spock thing a lot more than the original did, it was there but really is only explicit in a couple of episodes, here its far more defined and more a part of their interactions, but the actor for Chapel is excellent and so long as they keep it as unrequited, and oblivious on Socks part, it will work fine as it has been.
There is one entirely defunct character line regarding the Doctor and his daughter, whose purpose in being there at all I have no idea- its set up, given a bit of time, then resolved 3/4 of the way through the series in the worst episode of the series, and youre just left thinking what the hell was the point in any of that storyline from the start? And makes the Doctor one of the less interesting characters on board sadly. But that is I would say the series worst failing and aspect, but as overall it takes up one episodes and a few scenes spread across the other its not disastrous, just oddly pointless.

If anyone wants a more indepth chat or look at any of the series jump in, otherwise I will leave it at this spoiler freeish general review- which is for once Star Trek I can actually recommend!! }}