Re: star trek thread

[CC12 35]

http://www.channel5.com/shows/the-true-story-2/episodes/star-trek-the-true-story

[Pettytyrant101]

Thankyou CC!

[Pettytyrant101]

First 2 minutes of that doc pretty well sums up everything I have been trying to say about ST!

[Eldorion]

tl;dw

[CC12 35]

why are you shocked petty

[azriel]

First 2 minutes of that doc pretty well sums up everything I have been trying to say about ST!

Is that a positive or negative ?

[Pettytyrant101]

Because I was very, very slightly less than polite in my last post CC, perhaps suggesting your mind was unhinged- and your next post was doing me a favour by providing a link that made me feel a tiny, tiny bit like a heel (bloody good tactic CC I approve, very female!)

A positive Azriel- just kind of recaps my last few posts on the subject into one neat two minute package! Very good of them to do that.

[Norc]

i rewatched the first J.J Abrams-Star Trek Movie just now. i still love it.

[Pettytyrant101]

How? Nothing about it makes the slightest bt of sense, the plot is just a series of huge holes one after the other- honestly- it has one of the stupidiest most badly thought out plots I have seen. And Ive watched film swith PJ scripts!

[Norc]

but it's like time travel and leonard nimoy is in it i loveit!

[Pettytyrant101]

Yeah but its not ST time travel- only two ways to do that in ST is find a working gate like in City of Edge forever or do a high warp slingshot round a sun.
You cant do it by falling into the event horizon of a black hole.
But thats only one of the minor problems with the plot. Not a word of it, not a single piece of it start to finish makes sense.

[Norc]

yes it does, thoguh you don't seem to be able to make sense of it.

[Pettytyrant101]

Ok explain a few things to me.

Why does the bad guy want to get revenge on Spock?- the only person in the universe who was trying to save their planet? It wasnt Spocks fault it didnt work- at least he tried. Shouldn't he be mad at his own government for not doing anything?

Why does a mining ship have more weaponry then any battleship ever seen in ST before?

Why does every member of the mining ship crew think its a good idea to commit mass genocide?- no one in the entire crew of miners, engineers ect have a problem with that?
Nero's 'plan' is to destroy every Federation Planet- ther are more than 1000 of them!

What do they do for all the time they are waiting on Spock's ship to turn up? Just sit there in space doing nothing for decades when they have a ship powerful enough to take over worlds?

Why didnt they just contact Romulus, and warn them about the star going supernova in the future?

How did future Romulus not notice the star going super nova in the first place? It doesnt happen overnight. How could they be caught by suprise by it?

If the star that went supernova is 500 light years from Romulus and nothing in nature breaks the speed of light, then they have 500 years to evacuate. So how come Romulus gets destroyed almost instantly?

Why did Nero let Kirks father ram a starship into his ship when he could just have destroyed it? He destroyed plenty more ships later? Why let someone ram right into you and risk a dangeruous cloe quarters warp core explosion when you can blow them up no problem?

If all it takes to stop the mining drill is shooting the chain holding it up why didnt the Vulcans (the most intelligent race in the galaxy) think of it, or even send a ship to go look at the drill?- why instead did they decide just to go stand in a cave whilst it destroyed their world?

How come Chekov can't beam up Spocks mum because the ground gives way beneath her yet he can beam up two people in free fall? And why isnt her pattern aleady in the transporter buffer as thats happens as soon as a lock on is made, which Chekov already had.

Why is Kirk allowed to take an apple into the Kubayashi Maru simulator? Why does he make it so obvious he has cheated? What was the point of him doing it? In the original it was because it demonstrated that he didnt believe in the no win scenario, and that no matter what he would find a solution, even if the only solution was cheating and reprogramming the simulator. He was pulled up by Starfleet for it but was given a commendation for original thinking. What did this version tell us? That he is an arse? That he just wants to wind up the brass?

If Pike served on the Kelvin then how come Kirk, who was a new born baby, connects the lightning in space as a signature of Nero's ship and not Pike, who was onboard as an officer and an adult at the time and wrote the report on it?

Why does Spock fire Kirk off to a dangerous ice world on his own when a starship has perfectly good brigs? And who does Spock expect to come and pick Kirk up- Starfleet just lost most of its ships and Vulcan is gone, they might be a bit busy for this sort of thing.

What are the chances that the planet Spock happens to fire Kirk at also has Scotty on it, and that Kirk lands within random chased by monster distance of the very place Scotty is.

What the hell is transwarp transporting? How can you transport someone off a moving ship, the beam would have to be travelling faster than the speed of light? How do you even get a lock? What if it puts up its shields at any point? Or drops out of warp? How does the beam pass into and out of two seperate warp bubbles without being distrupted as passes from the warped to normal space?

If Scotty experimented on Archers beagle then makes Admiral Archer at least 150 years old.

How is it feasable that Kirk goes from Cadet rank to Captain? There is no one left on the Federation flagship higher in rank than cadet? And why Kirk- who Starfleet had just grounded and barred from even serving on a Starship? What about all the Heads of Department on a Starship? You'd think they might have somehing to say about a cadet assuming command over them.

If all you need to create a black hole is one drop of red why is there a tank filled with gallons of the stuff on Spocks ship? Is he planning to go on a black hole making spree?

How come old Spock can be near enough to see the destruction of Vulcan with the naked eye yet somehow not be effected by the black hole?

And when Spocks ship explodes creating the black hole that destroys the Romulan ship, why does all that red just make one normal sized black hole and not lots or a ginormous one when its way more than one drop?

And why does the black hole destroy Nero's ship this time and not just plonk it back out somewhere else like it did the first time?

And thats just off the top of my head- if I actually forced myself to watch it again I am sure there are many, many more.

[Ally]

But that aside: flawless piece of film-making.

[Mrs Figg]

Because I was very, very slightly less than polite in my last post CC, perhaps suggesting your mind was unhinged- and your next post was doing me a favour by providing a link that made me feel a tiny, tiny bit like a heel (bloody good tactic CC I approve, very female!)

A positive Azriel- just kind of recaps my last few posts on the subject into one neat two minute package! Very good of them to do that.

good one CC thats why females are superior beings

[Mrs Figg]

How? Nothing about it makes the slightest bt of sense, the plot is just a series of huge holes one after the other- honestly- it has one of the stupidiest most badly thought out plots I have seen. And Ive watched film swith PJ scripts!

I dont think so, it looked perfectly ok to me.

[Mrs Figg]

but it's like time travel and leonard nimoy is in it i loveit!

yeah its brilliant just ignore him Norc. Its was lovely to see Nimoy. it was a very cool and exciting film.

[Mrs Figg]

Yeah but its not ST time travel- only two ways to do that in ST is find a working gate like in City of Edge forever or do a high warp slingshot round a sun.
You cant do it by falling into the event horizon of a black hole.
But thats only one of the minor problems with the plot. Not a word of it, not a single piece of it start to finish makes sense.

who cares. it was exciting. when I go to see a film i just want escapism, who goes worrying about what the extras think on a mining ship? just relax and enjoy it.

[Pettytyrant101]

Then go watch SW- ST is supposed to be more than that. And there is no excuse for a plot that makes no sense at any point in the entire film.

it looked perfectly ok to me.- Mrs Figg

Then explain all the plot holes I highlighted so I can understand the plot. As it doesnt seem to have a coherent one to me.

[Norc]

Ok explain a few things to me.

Why does the bad guy want to get revenge on Spock?- the only person in the universe who was trying to save their planet? It wasnt Spocks fault it didnt work- at least he tried. Shouldn't he be mad at his own government for not doing anything? because he is an idiot, like most american villans, and he needed someone to blame other than himself (why couldn't he safe his wife, he had a ship!?)

Why does a mining ship have more weaponry then any battleship ever seen in ST before? Because the romulans apparantly had a lot of enemies, just look at them, thet look evil, also why does a mining ship look like a .. villan ship etc etc, but he had 25 years .. or? and anyway, how do we know he didn't do smugling or whatever..

Why does every member of the mining ship crew think its a good idea to commit mass genocide?- no one in the entire crew of miners, engineers ect have a problem with that?
Nero's 'plan' is to destroy every Federation Planet- ther are more than 1000 of them! the crew is scared of him and as i said, that villan is crazy and stupid and. well.. people sometimes just click when they loose someone close.

What do they do for all the time they are waiting on Spock's ship to turn up? Just sit there in space doing nothing for decades when they have a ship powerful enough to take over worlds? idk.. play cards. i agree, that's just stupid.

Why didnt they just contact Romulus, and warn them about the star going supernova in the future? they probably do.. although, he doesn't know he's back in the non-future

How did future Romulus not notice the star going super nova in the first place? It doesnt happen overnight. How could they be caught by suprise by it?as i said, romulans are stupid

If the star that went supernova is 500 light years from Romulus and nothing in nature breaks the speed of light, then they have 500 years to evacuate. So how come Romulus gets destroyed almost instantly? shall we really begin to list up every physics error in star trek (or star wars for that matter), it would srsly take all the fun away.. for instant, you can't travel in time, you can't warp and you wouldn't be able to "dive" in a straight line from "space" to earth, remember that dude who jumped, he tumbled.

Why did Nero let Kirks father ram a starship into his ship when he could just have destroyed it? He destroyed plenty more ships later? Why let someone ram right into you and risk a dangeruous cloe quarters warp core explosion when you can blow them up no problem?maybe he had an itch behind his ear and didn't notice or spilled his tea.

If all it takes to stop the mining drill is shooting the chain holding it up why didnt the Vulcans (the most intelligent race in the galaxy) think of it, or even send a ship to go look at the drill?- why instead did they decide just to go stand in a cave whilst it destroyed their world?maybe they are peacful munks.

How come Chekov can't beam up Spocks mum because the ground gives way beneath her yet he can beam up two people in free fall? And why isnt her pattern aleady in the transporter buffer as thats happens as soon as a lock on is made, which Chekov already had.plot twist. they need somethingn ssaaaaaad. also Chekov is just 17. we all make mistakes, and her drop is probably shorter and filled with rocks, so harder to point her in than two people with lots of space

Why is Kirk allowed to take an apple into the Kubayashi Maru simulator? Why does he make it so obvious he has cheated? What was the point of him doing it? In the original it was because it demonstrated that he didnt believe in the no win scenario, and that no matter what he would find a solution, even if the only solution was cheating and reprogramming the simulator. He was pulled up by Starfleet for it but was given a commendation for original thinking. What did this version tell us? That he is an arse? That he just wants to wind up the brass? i think it showed exacly the same. don't believe in no win scenarios, find a solution, even thoguh there is non and you have to cheat, also that he doesn't give up. yes he's a bit of an arse, but not at that.

If Pike served on the Kelvin then how come Kirk, who was a new born baby, connects the lightning in space as a signature of Nero's ship and not Pike, who was onboard as an officer and an adult at the time and wrote the report on it? because Kirk who has a boy was told about his father's death had more reason of remembering the details of it than pike, pike has a lot more on his mind and wouldn't necsesarrly remember tha tone incident at that time, even when it has only happened one time before.

Why does Spock fire Kirk off to a dangerous ice world on his own when a starship has perfectly good brigs? And who does Spock expect to come and pick Kirk up- Starfleet just lost most of its ships and Vulcan is gone, they might be a bit busy for this sort of thing.emotionally compromised, wanted him as far away as possible, he probably knew that kirk would probably find a way out if the brig and come and annoy him, also they had an outpost on the iceplanet, scotty, and the voice in the capsul said "wait to be pickedup" (which he ignored ofc)

What are the chances that the planet Spock happens to fire Kirk at also has Scotty on it, and that Kirk lands within random chased by monster distance of the very place Scotty is.AS I SAID!! starfleet outposts, it is why he sent him there

What the hell is transwarp transporting? How can you transport someone off a moving ship, the beam would have to be travelling faster than the speed of light? How do you even get a lock? What if it puts up its shields at any point? Or drops out of warp? How does the beam pass into and out of two seperate warp bubbles without being distrupted as passes from the warped to normal space? probably why the beagle is gone, but i don't understand why you try to apply logical physics when this isn't even possible, just go with it, it probably works somehow.

If Scotty experimented on Archers beagle then makes Admiral Archer at least 150 years old. so. it's the future, also how do you know his 150 years?

How is it feasable that Kirk goes from Cadet rank to Captain? There is no one left on the Federation flagship higher in rank than cadet? And why Kirk- who Starfleet had just grounded and barred from even serving on a Starship? What about all the Heads of Department on a Starship? You'd think they might have somehing to say about a cadet assuming command over them.probably, but he has kind a very present present and pike probably forgot idk, everyone got a freaking promotion, it's almost ridicolous, but i think the reason he became captain was just a series of events..and the rest of the cadets were probably busy reparing ship and etc. also he's proably top of the class.

If all you need to create a black hole is one drop of red why is there a tank filled with gallons of the stuff on Spocks ship? Is he planning to go on a black hole making spree?because it looks cool

How come old Spock can be near enough to see the destruction of Vulcan with the naked eye yet somehow not be effected by the black hole? again, why the hell aplly physics, they should have ended up in the black hole in the end too, it's stupid, maybe the black hole was design to only take vulcan.

And when Spocks ship explodes creating the black hole that destroys the Romulan ship, why does all that red just make one normal sized black hole and not lots or a ginormous one when its way more than one drop? i have no idea. luck.. but it was quite ginarmous, and it didn't just take one planet

And why does the black hole destroy Nero's ship this time and not just plonk it back out somewhere else like it did the first time?it probably did, now some other generation has to put up with his shit. also they shot at him.

And thats just off the top of my head- if I actually forced myself to watch it again I am sure there are many, many more.

[Norc]

Yeah but its not ST time travel- only two ways to do that in ST is find a working gate like in City of Edge forever or do a high warp slingshot round a sun.
You cant do it by falling into the event horizon of a black hole.
But thats only one of the minor problems with the plot. Not a word of it, not a single piece of it start to finish makes sense.

who cares. it was exciting. when I go to see a film i just want escapism, who goes worrying about what the extras think on a mining ship? just relax and enjoy it.

yes, as long as it is good entertainment.. hell why apply logic, why even start.

[Pettytyrant101]

Because the romulans apparantly had a lot of enemies, just look at them, thet look evil- Norc

Well theres a problem right there- after years of hard work establishing the Romulans as a complex race with many different viewpoints (Episodes like Unifcation which also has old Spock in it but is good!) this film relies entirely on the premise every single Romulan is the same- evil. This goes utterly against the ethos of Rodenberry.

and as i said, that villan is crazy and stupid

So in the 25 years they hang about waiting on Spock why didnt the crew mutiny and go spend their time on the party plant of Risa or something? But no, instead they all hold a grudge for 25 years against a man who did nothing wrong but they are all willing to try to destroy over 1000 planets! What?


shall we really begin to list up every physics error in star trek
i don't understand why you try to apply logical physics when this isn't even possible
again, why the hell aplly physics

Because this is supopsed to be ST- before these films every bit of science -even all the future stuff, was based on current theories and went through scientisist and NASA specialists before making it to the screen. Thats why the Enterprise hangs in a museum as if it was a real thing not a tv show prop- the science was important to the show, crucial to it even.
These films have no science basis at all and have just junked a large part of what made ST different from other scifi in the first place andmore than just a tv show

maybe they are peacful munks.

Vulcan history is among the most violent known- thats why they came up with the whole logic thing- that or self destruction.
Their ships dont have weapons but that doesnt mean they dont have any on the whole planet, or that they coudlnt have come up with something to sort it ( big pair of shears attached to the front of a shuttle would have been enough to snip the cable).

emotionally compromised, wanted him as far away as possible,

A week excuse he could never justify to Starfleet who would have said why didnt you but him the brig.
The only reason was to seperate them for plot purposes and get Scotty into it, but then they had to make up the nonsensical transwarp transporter nonense to get back out of their own script hole!

starfleet outposts, it is why he sent him there

Yeah but Kirk doesn tknow where it is- a whole moon to choose from and he happens to get chased right to the front door of the ono base on the whole place.
And like I said- Starfleet just lost its fleet, Vulcan is gone- who is Spock expecting to go on a taxi trip to collect him?

also how do you know his 150 years?

Archer is the Captain of the Enterprise in the series of the same name- which is set 150 years before Kirks time.

[Norc]

i don't think u understood some of my points, but i have to bake a cake and i can't be bothered to discuss xD i know i can't convince you let's agree to disagree. but scotty is on the starfleet outpost, whatever his job is.

[Pettytyrant101]

I think I did understand your points Norc and you have to admit a good deal of them amounted to 'just because'- which isnt good enough for ST.
Go on just admit it, the science in it is a big pile of smelly shite and the plot has more holes than plot in it.

[Pettytyrant101]

How to bring an original ST character into the modern stuff- the good way!

A suitably drunk and crabbit Scotty.