Books!

Termeraire? I know nothing about that series beyond the premise and the fact that PJ owns the film rights.

  


Edit: And yes that's the series. Although instead of trying to imitate the Aubrey-Maturin books but adding dragons, Jonathon Strange and Mr. Norrel is more sedate. It has a Jane Austen tone to much of the dialogue, but the subject matter is far more fanciful, dark, and intriguing.

The tone of the book (but not the lovely content) is demonstrated fairly well in the first few paragraphs (not to suggest that the rest of the book is quite as dry as here; it does contain more modern prose as well).

"Some years ago there was in the city of York a society of magicians. They met upon the third Wednesday of every month and read each other long, dull papers upon the history of English magic.
They were gentleman-magicians, which is to say they had never harmed any one by magic-- nor ever done any one the slightest good. In fact, to own the truth, not one of these magicians had ever cast the smallest spell, nor by magic caused one leaf to tremble upon a tree, made one mote of dust to alter its course or changed a single hair upon any one's head. But, with this one minor reservation, they enjoyed a reputation as some of the wisest and most magical gentlemen in Yorkshire..."
-Jonathon Strange and Mr. Norrel, Ch. 1

Since we had discussed the Dune series, I went back to read God-Emperor of Dune, which it turns out I had tried to read 20 years ago but gave up in disgust. Then I went and looked at reviews, and they are hysterical. Here's a sampling from two:

A Dune Retrospective by Eric Allen

What do you say about the book that was so completely terrible that it so turned you off of the series that you refused to read the four books that came after it for over a decade? This book is bad in a way that few things achieve. Oh, yes, there are worse things than this book in human history, and I do not mean to cheapen the horror of those atrocities, but when it comes to complete and utter failures in fictional exploits, this is amongst the worst.

By this time in his career, Frank Herbert's Dune series had sold multiple millions of books. He was a veritable gold mine for his publisher, and so, he had the power and influence to basically get anything he wanted from them. As a result, God Emperor of Dune is pure and complete insanity. Oh, but its not just normal insanity, oho no. Its a special sort of insanity. Its the sort of insanity that happens when you give crazy way too much money, power, influence, and creative license. I like to call this kind of crazy, George Lucas Syndrome.
[this needs no explanation, so I cut it out.]

...

What does this have to do with Dune, you ask? Plenty. You see, having sold millions of copies of his first three books in the Dune series, Frank Herbert had enough clout with his publishers that he could have taken a dump on a blank piece of paper and they would have published it, because they were utterly terrified that he would take his series elsewhere. And so, when he handed them the manuscript for God Emperor of Dune, NO ONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT HOW TERRIBLE IT WAS TO HIM!!! They published it because he wrote it, it had Dune in the title, and people would buy it, read it, and claim to love it because of it.

So, this leaves the question, was Herbert balls out insane from the beginning, and simply constrained by his publishers and editors to create art for his first three books? Or did he just do a crapton of drugs between book 3 and book 4? We may never know the answer for sure.

Why is this book so bad? Well, lets find out, shall we?

I can't put enough quotation marks around the word "story" here, so I won't even try. 3500 years have passed since the events of Children of Dune. Leto Atreides II has become a giant sandworm with a human face and arms... Yeah, I'll give you a minute to wrap your mind around that. You good? Ok, moving on then. The ENTIRE plot of this book revolves around Leto talking, and talking, and talking, and talking, and talking, and talking, and talking. He talks about being a sandworm. He talks about what it means to be a sandworm. He talks about why it's important that he has become a sandworm. He talks about how being a sandworm fits into his plans. And through all that talking, HE NEVER MANAGES TO TALK ABOUT WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT TO THE PLOT OR WHY I SHOULD CARE!!! And then he dies, easily killed by his utter arrogance in believing that mere humans could never possibly rise up against him. And I get a lot of people telling me I've got it wrong on this... but try reading his last few bits of dialog after falling in the water with this in mind and tell me I don't have a point. If this was not what Herbert meant to convey with this dialog, he sure failed at what he actually meant to get across to me.

The Good? Nada. In fact, skip this book if you plan to read this series. Your life will be better for it. You miss absolutely nothing that the next book does not readily explain in a few sentences, and you don't have to wade through all the complete fail that this book embodies.

[rant about Herbert's views on women and homosexuals, which I think the reviewer partly misconstrued]
...

Every character in this book other than Leto exists for one purpose and one purpose alone. To ask questions that facilitate even more talking from him. Let me describe to you every scene in this book. Leto rants for about thirty pages on his morality and plan for humanity. Someone is confused by his complete insanity and asks him a question. He then goes on at great length explaining the answer. The other character is still confused and asks another question, which facilitates yet another long and boring rant from him. These characters have no personality. They have no motivation. They have no plans or desires of their own. They exist within the plot for one purpose and one purpose only, to give Leto an excuse to further explain Frank Herbert's insanity.

[rant about how boring Leto is as a character]
...

Herbert STILL does not seem to feel the need to explain what motivates Leto to do what he has done, and why I should care about it. These are basic elements of the plot of this book and the previous one that are COMPLETELY LEFT TO THE READER'S IMAGINATION. IF you want me to care about your character and the story revolving around him, you have to tell me WHAT he is doing, WHY it is important, and most importantly, WHY I SHOULD CARE!!! These are basic storytelling elements that Herbert completely FAILED to employ.

In conclusion, this book is awful. It's a special kind of awful, the sort of which you will rarely find in fiction. It's basically a thinly disguised excuse for Herbert to give his own philosophies on life. If you want to write a book of philosophy, by all means, go ahead and do so. But don't try to tell me it's the next installment of your epic science fiction series. This book gets ZERO stars, but since the rating does not show up here on Goodreads with zero, I threw one up there. It feels FAR longer than it actually is. It centers around a character that is completely and utterly loathesome, without a SINGLE redeeming characteristic, and I'm supposed to feel for this character? Yeah, sorry Herbert, but no. I don't. I really, REALLY don't. This book is terrible in a way that few books are. And worst of all, it's boring. I can forgive bad writing. I can forgive a bad story. I can forgive wooden characters. It is my opinion that one of the truly unforgivable things that a storyteller can do, is to tell a boring story. Only the most hardcore fans of the Dune series will likely be able to find any enjoyment here, to any casual readers I typicaly recomend that this book be skipped over, because it really is THAT bad.

-------------------
Katrina rated it 5 of 5 stars · review of another edition

I hated this book the first time I read it. Hated every person in it, did not understand why anyone acted the way they did. Now it's one of my top-ten comfort reads, and I see so much in Leto I want for myself.

Dune was the perfect hero book, and then Herbert turned the trope of “boy becomes Messiah and saves the noble people” on its head with Dune Messiah and Children of Dune. In those two volumes, everything assumed and trusted became so much sand, and a son had to destroy his Messiah father’s legacy to save the universe from religious genocide and tyranny. We closed on the boy becoming yet another saviour and had only a vague, hopeful idea of what he intended to do next.

Herbert could have left us there, many thought he would when he finished his Dune Trilogy. Instead, he published his most difficult and daring book yet. In Emperor, we discover that the boy’s plan to save humanity from tyranny is... to become the ultimate Tyrant, and Predator of humankind. Yeah, I’m with you. Just say “huh?” and get it over with. I can’t explain without giving plot away. Emperor is a masterpiece of philosophy, and the best book in the series, but I wouldn’t blame you if you stopped somewhere in the middle and stuffed it to the back of your shelf for ten years before you gave it another chance. Who am I to argue? I did. (less)

(note: as you can see, I did too, for 2 or 3 decades)

Im with the second reviewer on this one- I really like God Emperor.
Saying its just an excuse for the author to put across his personal observations and philosophy on life is like saying Orwell's 1984 has no value for the same reason. Its clearly nonsense.

Wait.. Dune... I just realized I read that a long time ago, having no real idea what it was. Strangely picking it out a bit at random in this funny little library. The first book and the norwegian translation, that is.  

I remember quite enjoying it, though can't say I remember many specifics. Maybe I'll reread it at some point.

The internet can be a bit strange some times . So here's the library:



And the book is still there, if anyone wants to borrow it.

http://telebib.tm.fylkesbibl.no/cgi-bin/websok?tnr=184148

"Dune" translated as "Sand"!

Clearly Norwegian has never stumbled upon the need for desert words...

It's a poor translation - should be "sanddyne". I'm guessing the translator chose "sand" because it sounds better for a book title

Yeah, also the norwegian word for dune = dyne is more commenly used to refer to a duvet. So, I guess... people might have gotten the wrong idea.

Yeah Sanddyne literally translates into "Duvet of sand". Not a bad word, actually

sand-blanket!

Wheel of Time reading update:

Book 11 done.

3 books to go.  



Um...

And from here on out the books are written by Brandon Sanderson, with Robert Jordans notes, chapter summaries and outline, as they were all written after the original authors, Robert Jordans, death.

Might be interesting experience on that front.

Here's the foreword to the twelfth book, The Gathering Storm.

FOREWORD

In November 2007, I received a phone call that would change my life forever. Harriet McDougal, wife and editor of the late Robert Jordan, called to ask me if I would complete the last book of The Wheel of Time.

For those who did not know Mr. Jordan had passed away, it pains me to be the one to break the news. I remember how I felt when—while idly browsing the Internet on September 16, 2007—I discovered that he had died. I was shocked, stunned, and disheartened. This wonderful man, a hero to me in my writing career, was gone. The world suddenly became a different place.

I first picked up The Eye of the World in 1990, when I was a teenage fantasy addict visiting my corner bookstore. I became a fan instantly and eagerly awaited The Great Hunt. Over the years, I've read the books numerous times, often re-reading the entire series when a new book was released. Time passed, and I decided I wanted to become a fantasy author—influenced, in large part, by how much I loved The Wheel of Time. And yet, never did I think that I would one day get that phone call from Harriet. It came to me as a complete surprise. I had not asked, applied, or dared wish for this opportunity—though when the request was made, my answer was immediate. I love this series as I have loved none other, and the characters feel like old, dear friends from my childhood.

I cannot replace Robert Jordan. Nobody could write this book as well as he could have. That is a simple fact. Fortunately, he left many notes, outlines, completed scenes, and dictated explanations with his wife and assistants. Before his passing, he asked Harriet to find someone to complete the series for his fans. He loved you all very much and spent the very last weeks of his life dictating events for the final volume. It was to be called A Memory of Light.

Eighteen months later, we are here. Mr. Jordan promised that the final book would be big. But the manuscript soon grew prohibitively huge; it would be three times the size of a regular Wheel of Time book, and the decision was made by Harriet and Tor to split A Memory of Light into thirds. There were several excellent breaking points that would give a full and complete story in each third. You may think of The Gathering Storm and its two followers as the three volumes of A Memory of Light or as the final three books of The Wheel of Time. Both are correct.

As of this writing, I am halfway done with the second third. We are working as quickly as is reasonable, and we don't want you to have to wait too long to get the ending we were all promised nearly twenty years ago. (Mr. Jordan did write this ending himself before he passed away, and I have read it. And it is fantastic.) I have not tried to imitate Mr. Jordan's style. Instead, I've adapted my style to be appropriate to The Wheel of Time. My main goal was to stay true to the souls of the characters. The plot is, in large part, Robert Jordan's, though many of the words are mine. Imagine this book as the product of a new director working on some of the scenes of a movie while retaining the same actors and script.

But this is a big project, and it will take time to complete. I beg your patience as we spend these next few years perfecting this story. We hold in our hands the ending of the greatest fantasy epic of our time, and I intend to see it done right. I intend to remain true to Mr. Jordan's wishes and notes. My artistic integrity, and love for the books, will not let me do anything less. In the end, I let the words herein stand as the best argument for what we are doing.

This is not my book. It is Robert Jordan's book, and to a lesser extent, it is your book.

Thank you for reading.

Brandon Sanderson June 2009

Came across a book called William Shakespeare's Star Wars yesterday, opened it, read a few lines and then I had to buy it Based on the little I read in the store it looked hilarious - I'll come back to this thread when I've read it. Picture below

I haven't read that yet, but I've seen it at work a number of times and heard very good things about it. There are sequels under the names The Empire Striketh Back and The Jedi Doth Return as well.

I like the look of that Ringdrotten- do let us know if its any good. (Im assuming it starts with a Chorus- Oh for a muse of fire that would ascend to the brightest stars of invention, A galaxy for a stage, Sith to act, and Jedi to behold the swelling scene!
Then should the warlike Vader, like himself, Assume the Death Star; and at his heels, leashed in like rancors, should force, light saber and lightening powers crouch for employment.)

I'm about halfway through the 2001 Best American Short Stories anthology (I got it at a coffee shop for 50 cents ). It's quite good actually: I don't like short stories usually, but these are powerfully written and quite good. The first one is about an Englishman estranged from his wife and child for over a year while working as a surveyor for the British government in the Himalayas. It reminded me somewhat of the film Seven Years in Tibet. It helped that I had recently read Summit Fever, as the same places (and mountains) are mentioned in each.
Anyone else enjoying any anthologies? I like the Best Science-Fiction of the Year especially, when I get a hold of a copy.

Im trying to read "The End of Mr Y " by Scarlett Thomas. The write up sounded interesting, about a rare book written by a Victorian Scientist, who has experienced time travel & other weird things that, I havent read about yet, as I cant keep my eyes open to read more than 2 or 3 pages ! Its quite meaty for a paperback, over 5oo pages.Ive got to the bit where this scientist attended a Fayre & was sent off in time by a strange man pretending to be a ventriloquist (I think) Anyway, If I start a book, Ive got to finish it or I just cant start reading another one,

I started reading that book Az, but I found it difficult to engage in. The style of the writing put me off, dont know why.

I know what you mean Figgy but, Ive started it now so, IL keep plodding along until I become so fooking rigid with boredom that I have to staple my eyelids open

Sounds a bit like The Name of the Rose, really.

That's a really interesting book, but a properly heavy read.

Can't help but love Sherlock Holmes as a 14th century Fransiscan monk solving a murder mystery that ties in with Aristotles lost work on comedy, though.

That reminds me, Azriel, of The Prestige. That book was a bit harder to get through than I expected with how the film turned out. It was ultimately rewarding, however; I hope yours is the same!

Thankyou Forest I liked the film, The Prestige, one film I can happily watch again. I liked how Christian Bale's character got well & truly under the skin of Hugh Jackman's character yeah, I enjoyed the whole film, Wish I could say that about The Hobbit, never will, I know it ! So, was the film from the book ? or, the book from the film ? If the book came 1st, Id like to read that.

azriel wrote:Thankyou Forest  I liked the film, The Prestige, one film I can happily watch again. I liked how Christian Bale's character got well & truly under the skin of Hugh Jackman's character yeah, I enjoyed the whole film, Wish I could say that about The Hobbit, never will, I know it ! So, was the film from the book ? or, the book from the film ? If the book came 1st, Id like to read that.

Puhlease, I readeth not of cheaply mass-produced film tie-in literature!
It is a 1995 novel by Christopher Priest written as a series of letters (therein lies its density to the casual reader). It's good, but not entertaining in the regular sense of the word. Especially post-film, as the reader will come to the story with lots of preconceptions.