Re: Books!

by Bluebottle Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:50 pm

Stunning article on gender and literature, and gender and feelings, through the lense of Karl Ove Knausgård.

KNAUSGAARD WRITES LIKE A WOMAN
SIRI HUSTVEDT ON GENDERED LITERATURE AND THE FEMINIZATION OF FEELINGS
In her 1856 essay, “Silly Novels by Lady Novelists,” George Eliot wrote, “Happily, we are not dependent on argument to prove that Fiction is a department of literature in which women can, after their kind, fully equal men.” Would anyone argue with this today? Is writing an activity that depends on the sex of the writer? If it does, what does that mean? A survey in 2015 by Goodreads revealed that on average 80 percent of a woman writer’s audience is female as opposed to 50 percent for a man writer’s. In other words, men who write fiction have an audience representative of the world as a whole while women don’t. No doubt there are particular writers who defy that average. Many more women read fiction than men. Still, a literary text is just that—pages of print. If that print has a male narrator, is it masculine? Does a female protagonist make it feminine? Is there some other quality that marks a book as sexed?

http://lithub.com/knausgaard-writes-like-a-woman/

by Forest Shepherd Sat Dec 12, 2015 4:25 am

The article itself must contain the stunning part. Otherwise it just seems like the quote thinks itself deeper than it is!

by Bluebottle Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:56 pm

Yup, tip of the iceberg. Wink

by Bluebottle Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:12 pm

I'm currently reading Terry Pratchett's Hogfather, which is a real nice Christmas read. (Although it is a bit odd enjoying it this much, as I remember hating the tv adaptation.)

Books! - Page 23 9780552145428

by Bluebottle Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:14 pm

by halfwise Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:21 pm

the audience for women writers is 80% female? Also need to look at the percentage of women writers in each field and sex breakdown of readership in each. If those numbers are even available.

by Bluebottle Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:31 pm

You should read the whole article. It contains some really interesting perspectives. Smile

by halfwise Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:48 pm

Nicely written perspectives, though not new if you've read much gender comparison literature. But I really just wanted my numbers!

by Bluebottle Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:49 pm

Here ya go. Wink

https://www.goodreads.com/blog/show/475-sex-and-reading-a-look-at-who-s-reading-whom

by halfwise Tue Dec 22, 2015 11:04 pm

The interesting thing is that of new books, men read mainly men and women read mainly women. But as time goes on women and men equally read older books by men, but women's books are still mainly read by women. It left out how older published book by women fare with men.

There was no stats on publication rates, so we still don't have a denominator.

by bungobaggins Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:27 am

Started reading The Wheel of Time Book 1. I feel like this is going to take me a long time, but I wanted to give this book a fair shake.

by Eldorion Tue Dec 29, 2015 3:56 am

I never got very far into The Wheel of Time (stopped pretty early in the first book, but I was kinda burnt out from trying other fantasy novels both times I made an attempt), but I know Blue likes it a lot. I hope you'll keep us posted; I'm curious what you think of it bungo. study

by bungobaggins Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:53 am

Even the first chapter reminds me a bit much of the beginning of FOTR. "Hobbiton" is preparing for a big party; strange riders cloaked in black are seen in "The Shire."

by Bluebottle Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:30 pm

Ah, yeah. The whole first book is kind of an intentional pastiche of LotRs, but then it veers off in distinctly it's own direction. Fun to hear you're reading it anyway. It certainly would be interesting to hear what you make of it. Although, as i used about 15 years to get through it myself, I'll certainly not be nagging you about it. Razz

by Bluebottle Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:36 pm

Eldorion wrote:I never got very far into The Wheel of Time (stopped pretty early in the first book, but I was kinda burnt out from trying other fantasy novels both times I made an attempt), but I know Blue likes it a lot. I hope you'll keep us posted; I'm curious what you think of it bungo.

Ah, I'd be hard pressed to say where stand on The Wheel of Time to be honest. On the one hand any thoughts I have about is clouded by a heavy onset of nostalgia, so I'm most certainly not impartial on this subject, although I'd in no way be all positives either.

What can you say about it? It's momentous. Parts of it's great, like really great. Parts of it not so much. (Although, that's all in my opinion of course.) I'm not sure I'd rate it all the way up there with aSoIaf or LotRs, but I'm not sure i can think of anything else that gets close either. And it's certainly something completely of it's own.

All in all I'd say it would be a real interesting read for any fantasy fan. Nod

by Eldorion Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:48 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Blue. Smile

I found the LOTR similarities a little too overpowering for me on my more recent attempt at The Eye of the World, even though I had been told it would get more different. The length and the common criticisms of the middle and later books were kinda off-putting too.

by bungobaggins Tue Dec 29, 2015 10:56 pm

I thought the prologue was really cool. But the very first couple sentences of chapter 1 made me do a double take.

"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."

https://youtu.be/d_NhmyrcoQ4?t=1m4s

But I did make it to chapter 3 today. I'm not going to give up that easily.

by Eldorion Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:52 am

To be fair to WoT, that line was in print several years before Stephen Sinclair penned what would become the FOTR prologue. No idea if he (or any of the other writers) ever read WoT though.

by bungobaggins Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:26 am

Yeah I checked the publication date, so there may have been a bit of borrowing in the writer's room for FOTR.

Stephen Sinclair

Books! - Page 23 8e93bc4fe111075a2e5d535c8a186fdf15b0eb845d4afb7c240f5e92b82cbe96

by Bluebottle Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:55 pm

“They will not be pleased. But they know we must catch the monsoon with a well-found ship; and they know they are in the Navy--they have chosen their cake, and must lie on it.'
You mean, they cannot have their bed and eat it.'
No, no, it is not quite that either. I mean--I wish you would not confuse my mind, Stephen.”
― Patrick O'Brian, H.M.S. Surprise

by halfwise Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:01 pm

Stephan Sinclair started the prologue? I thought it was all that Boyens woman.

by Bluebottle Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:05 pm

So, someone actively quoted Robert Jordan and The Wheel of Time in the opening of The Fellowship of the Ring? Shocked

by halfwise Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:09 pm

I wouldn't call that a real copy. Reminiscent, but I think you can find the same sequence of history -> legend -> myth elsewhere.

by Eldorion Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:40 am

halfwise wrote:Stephan Sinclair started the prologue? I thought it was all that Boyens woman.

Pretty sure it was Sinclair but it's been so long since I've watched the Appendices I could be mistaken. He left really early on though, but not before introducing Boyens to the project (they are/were partners).

by halfwise Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:00 am

I remember Fran being surprised when Boyens came back with the script for the prologue, saying "She's done it!"

The line in question may have come from Sinclair, but the overall Prologue was all Boyens based on instructions she was given.