Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [3]

[Eldorion]

Most people don't really understand the difference between the Internet and the Web, though, and the article you quote uses the two terms interchangeably.  And of course, the Web wouldn't have been possible without the Internet.  Which is not to denigrate Mr Berners-Lee's contributions to technology or freedom of expression at all, but the US government has exercised considerable control over the entire Internet (including the Web) from its beginning as a result of its role in building the infrastructure necessary for it.

[Pettytyrant101]

That still seems incredibly arrogant to me- his argument seems to boil down to- we created the infrastructure it runs on so we can do what the hell we like, regardlesss of other countries laws or thoughts because we are America.
That sort of attitude will only hasten your countries downfall in international esteem.

[Eldorion]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the attitude either. I think it would be better for everyone if the United States does not have such one-sided control over the Internet. I'm not sure that an obscure, unelected bureaucratic organization like ICANN is necessarily the best option either, though.

[Pettytyrant101]

Some form of UN independent body would seem a better choice, with proper scrutiny and oversight.
And snooping should be illegal for all countries equally- with the penalty for it being no internet access to your country- that would quickly focus minds and be a suitable deterrent.
But as the US believes its more important than International Law and somehow exempt from it I cant see that happening any time soon.

[Eldorion]

I'm as bothered by the US government's violations of privacy as anyone, but I don't think that revoking Internet access for the whole country would be a feasible punishment. Other than unfairly punishing lots of people, you would remove most of the web's largest sites and its largest national userbase by doing that, which would have negative rippling effects for everyone else as well.

But yes, in case it isn't clear from my post history, I'm not a fan of American exceptionalism. I don't have a ton of faith in the UN necessarily, particularly because it is a highly undemocratic organization, but a UN specialized agency might be the best option available for Internet governance today.

[Pettytyrant101]

Im not  offering the UN up is an ideal institute (its most certainly not)- but it is the only thing we have so far for global law. And its hard to imagine something more global than the internet- that any one country should be able to use it for their own ends, or usurp it for their own purposes across international borders is just wrong.

And yes punishing breaking the rules by having it removed would cause a lot of chaos- a very good deterrent surely to not risking doing it and risking the wrath of your people?- a high punishment for a crime is after all the same argument is it not certain US states use for justifying the death penalty?- and someone actually dies there.

[Eldorion]

I'm not going to get into a death penalty debate in this thread, sorry.

Ideally I would like to see the Internet continue to be open and largely rules-free, but there has already been movement against this. A big part of that is US legislation and lobbying (partially because so many Internet companies are headquartered here and partially because the .com, .net, and .org domain names are all American-controlled, whereas other countries only control their own unique ones, like .uk or .de). So any organization that would be more dedicated to Internet freedom would get my vote, but I'm not convinced that many others would be since a lot of people are concerned about the Internet being too free and open (look at David Cameron ).

[Pettytyrant101]

Early reports on the Washingtnon shooter would seem to be heading in the direction of him suffering a mental illness.
If this turns out to be true it should hopefully be a wake up call to governments everywhere to treat the mental health issue with a good deal more seriousness, and more importantly, a good deal more money. Especially when it comes to former serving soldiers.
I dont know what its like in the US but here its a disgrace how quickly those we ask to fight for us are forgotten about and left to decline once they can no longer fight for us.
If we are going to ask people to do these things, and call them heroes when ot suits our PR to do so the least we should do is take care of the survivors properly for the rest of their lives. Anything less is not just a disgrace, it risks tragedies like what occurred in Washington happening again.

[halfwise]

A good chunk of the homeless population here are war veterans. Some may be saying that for sympathy points but I think it's still a large percentage. If indeed veterans they get medical treatment for life and psychological counseling, but not much else.

[Pettytyrant101]

That doesnt sound too encouraging Halfy.
Thanks to our social benefits homelessness, although still a problem in cities, is not anything like as bad as it seems in the US.
One of the aims of the SNP if they get Independence is for there to be NO homeless people at all in Scotland.
Not sure how viable that actually is, but its a worthy thing to aim for I reckon.

[halfwise]

A sizable minority of the homeless are deuced hard to shove into homes even if you hand housing to them. They simply don't like it, don't feel it fits their spirit. So I think you'll always find some stubborn homeless no matter what you do. They've got pride and self image too, even if we don't always understand it.

[Pettytyrant101]

Yes, thats why I think the SNP aim is probably impossible to achieve- but if it at least means homes for everyone who actually wants one then its worth doing even if it doesnt mean zero homelessness.

[Pettytyrant101]

Been readin gmore on this latest US shooting spree. Anmd some questions come to mind.

Given he had previously been in trouble with police for firing his gun at stuff- including on one occasion claiming a black rage descended on him an he cant remember doing it- why in the US are you allowed to keep a gun after something like that? Shouldn't that immediately be flagged up by law enforcement?

And if someone has been diagnosed with mental health issues, as he had, why does that not immediately exclude you from having a firearm if you are not mentally stable enough?

[Pettytyrant101]

MP's are proving yet again what it truly means to 'all be in it together' as they complain to the House of Commons Committee that the tax payer subsidised bars at Westminster dont have enough vintage wines available.

Unbelievable!  

[David H]

tax payer subsidised bars at Westminster

 

(Actually that explains some things about parliamentary debate.)

[Eldorion]

So if you become an MP not only do you get a salary, you also get subsidized housing (among other things) and your fancy meals paid for? What's wrong with an ordinary cafeteria?

[Pettytyrant101]

Taxpayers coughed up more than £7m last year helping to subsidise Parliament's bars and restaurants, a Freedom of Information request has found.
But the taxpayer did have to contribute around £600,000 less than in 2011-12.
Meanwhile the House of Lords said that, excluding revenue from functions and retail sales, its eight catering outlets cost £2.3 million."- Huffington Post

"What's wrong with an ordinary cafeteria?"- Eldo

You dont get vintage wine cheap in a cafeteria. (obviously MP's are allowed to drink on the job unlike say, everyone else for whom its a sacking offence)

The official excuse for this blatant theft of tax payer money by people who get paid enough not to need it is-

"The cost to the House arises because of the irregular hours and unpredictability of parliamentary business."

Obviously no other job in the country, anywhere, has those issues

[Eldorion]

Man, being an MP sounds like a sweet gig. How can I become one?

[Pettytyrant101]

Oh thats easy- be born into the upper classes, go to one of a few select boarding school then Cambridge or Oxford, join the debating society and any toffs clubs (like Bullington) and then straight into politics. At least thats how about 80% of the current Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem front benches got there.

[halfwise]

Many politicians are incapable of doing anything else, and are sort of social parasites.  A good case in point is New York's own Anthony Wiener, about whom one might be forgiven for believing would never be seen again after being driven out of national office in disgrace for extensive explicit sexting to a number of women, none of whom happen to be his wife.

But no, he surfaced again in local politics...and the sexting continued.  You'd think after his latest creative endeavor was broadcast he would have quit immediately and locked himself in a closet.  But no, he had to continue the campaign to its bitter end.  The only possible explanation for this behavior is that he was running for political office because he was incapable of making a living any other way.

[David H]

was running for political office because he was incapable of making a living any other way.

Good point, but I wouldn't worry about poor little Wiener. There's always lobbying or the lecture circuit. The three careers run together almost seamlessly. Basically it's a safety net for social parasites.

[Pettytyrant101]

"In 1961, days after President John F Kennedy's inauguration, two hydrogen bombs were accidentally dropped on Goldsboro, North Carolina, as a B-52 bomber went into a tailspin.
Only the failure of a single low-voltage switch prevented disaster.
"The bomb assumed it was being deliberately released over an enemy target - and went through all its arming mechanisms save one, and very nearly detonated over North Carolina."
Fallout could have been deposited over Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York City.
"And Robert McNamara had just become secretary of defence and he was terrified by this news. We nearly had a hydrogen bomb detonate a few days after JFK's inauguration that would have changed literally the course of history." - BBC

   

Apparently there have been quite a few near misses over the years, but due to secrecy ect no one is really sure how many.

[Mrs Figg]

Man, being an MP sounds like a sweet gig.  How can I become one?

Italian MPs get paid abut twice the UK amount, if you go into politics I suggest Rome.

[David H]

Italian MPs get paid about twice the UK amount, if you go into politics I suggest Rome.

Just out of curiosity, is that before or after bribes and kickbacks?

[Eldorion]

"The bomb assumed it was being deliberately released over an enemy target - and went through all its arming mechanisms save one, and very nearly detonated over North Carolina."

Well that's terrifying.