Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [3]

[azriel]

Lance, youre like cool water poured on a hot brow !! I needed that & I thankyou, Its not foreigners, or colours etc that bother me, its the human psychie, Your right I think, on reflection. The world is opening up, thanks Id say to the internet.Hopefully, like the Ents, "we" are waking up. I just wish it WASNT wishful thinking.Wouldnt it be nice to have a heaven ON Earth ? & not hope for one when we peg it ?

[Mrs Figg]

or in his case cool Ribena poured on a hot brow.  

[Lancebloke]

Cool water... dont think I have been called that before. Or Ribena come to think of it!

Could with something cool though as it is bloody roasting tonight!!!

[Pettytyrant101]

As the UK government pushes ahead with its bedroom tax the real reason the welfare bill is so high continues unaffected-the cost of private rents combined with the lack of social housing.
Of course the Tories wont legislate against private landlords for two reasons- one its anti-capitalist to cap how much they can charge, and secondly most Tories own huge swathes of property and are private landlords themselves so would be capping their own profits- and this Tory party like to bathe in their persoanlmillions, so no chance there.

'A third of Britain is effectively off-limits to lower-income working families because private rents are unaffordable, a new report claims.
The Home Truths report identifies local authorities that are "affordable" for a couple with a child requiring a two-bedroom property on a household income of £22,000 a year.
125 of 376 local authorities in Britain (33%) are unaffordable for less-affluent working families.
"The private rented sector is now, in large parts of the country, the most expensive form of housing," says Vidhya Alakeson, of the Resolution Foundation.
"It is also the only option for most low to middle-income households, many of whom are faced with the unenviable choice of forgoing other essentials in order to pay for housing or living in overcrowded conditions to reduce their housing costs."- BBC


On the same day as this independent report came out the government also rolled out its benefit cap -

'The cap, on the total amount of benefits that non-working people aged 16 to 64 can receive, has begun rolling out across England, Scotland and Wales.
Couples and lone parents will now not receive more than £500 a week, while a £350 limit applies to single people.'


And yet the official response to the report on private rents reads-

'Housing Minister Mark Prisk described the report as "alarmist" "And it fails to recognise that housing benefit provides a safety net which ensures that up to a third of private properties in most areas are affordable to low income families," he said.'


Anyone else spot the problem here?

[Lancebloke]

Fuck it. Stop all benefits and all taxes. Let policing, health, school, defence and everything else be paid for directly and then see what happens.

The whole system could do with being rebuilt from scratch. Things just keep getting bolted on here and removed there as each government tries to keep power. Nothing ever seems to be done by getting to the routes of all the issues and fixing them.

[Pettytyrant101]

The current Tory strategy is all politics is the problem Lance- it has no intention and does not set out to sort anything- its about scoring political points- for the same reason Westminister has dumped the minimum pricing on alcohol, plain packaging on cigarettes, a whole slew of environmental policies- and instead is focusing on immigration and welfare- the very things by pure coincidence the Tories have been losing voters to UKIP over.

It blatantly obvious from even a cursory glance at the welfare bill that rent payments make up a huge chunk of it- and a huge chunk of that is going to private landlords who can charge what they like for a property.
Not expending on massive house building projects is (and has been for along time) costing the tax payer way more in rent benefits than it would do to just get on and build. And it will only get worse as they are doing nothing to address this issue because it goes against the politics of the Tories (and would effect many of them detrimentally in a personal way).

Policies like the bedroom tax will cost the tax payer money, is having an unfair effect on those it hits, is unworkable-there are simply not the physical number of one bedroom houses to make it work, leaving folk with higher rent they cant pay and nowhere to move to except to private landlords where the bedroom tax doesnt apply and where the rent will be higher, but paid by the tax payer so it will cost us more again- and will have a tiny, if any, effect on the overall welfare bill in this area- but it does sound tough on benefits and gives the impression they are doing something.

Not that it was the poor who got us into this situation- but legislation against those who did would mean legislation against all the tories friends and relatives in the City that they went to Oxford and Cambridge with.
What is really depressing about it to me though is that people are buying into this nonsense that the problem is the poor.

[Lancebloke]

Grass is always greener until you get to the other side. Too many entities have too much power to let much actually be done that benefits the majority.

[Pettytyrant101]

One of the reasons I am pro independence is it its a chance to his the reset switch.
Westminster has been going a long time and it was not created for the sort of politics it now deals with- basically it has been tinkered with, adapted and had bits stuck on - bit like if you have a house that falling down and try to fix it by adding buttresses and stuff, when the actual probelm is the foundations are knackered.
No amount of tinkering will sort it unless you rip up the foundations and lay new ones.
That will never happen at Westminster-it will always just tinker round the edges-
A new Scotland has a chance to build better foundations more suited to the tasks at hand.

[Lancebloke]

But really...? If I were to rate the chances of a 'new Scotland' to be born out of the ashes of the U.K. out of a 100... I'd put it at about 20. There will be some reforms... some promised that never appear and some that have to appear to make sure the next round of voting shows some ticks for the voters.

Especially if that slimy salmond bloke is involved.

[Pettytyrant101]

I'd say some it has already happened-.

Take the physical building the Parliament is in- like most modern European parliaments the Scottish one an open chamber with a semi-circular seating arrangement- conductive to debate.
Westminster is adversarial, sitting oppositie each other- there is little debate just a lot of shouting like a football match as any PMQ's will show.
Going from watching Scottish First Ministers Questions to PMQ's is frankly embarrassing for Westminster.

On another note take expenses-the Westminster expenses scandal couldn't have happened in  Scotland as our Parliament was set up with all that completely transparent and published right form the start.
When Westminster got in the shit over it it was the Scottish Parliament they used as a model for how to sort it.
We already have minimum pricing on alcohol,no visible point of display on cigarettes and will almost certainly go ahead with plain packaging- and its no more popular here with general public than it is in England- difference is our Parliament debated it and vote don the issues not on political ones.
I would strongly argue there is already a strong improvement on the Westminster model that can only be furthered by independence.

[Mrs Figg]

Indipendant Scotland is not going to be a nirvana, its just going to be buisness as usual with a Scottish accent. All poititicians are the same, once in power its fuck the poor and fuck their little dog, just wait and see.

On a side note, one of the Italian far right so called politicians Calderoni who is deputy speaker of the Senate, is in not very shit for calling the only Black woman MP an Orang-utan. He hasnt apologized publicly and has suffered no punishment nor has he been sacked. Its that kinda place.

[Pettytyrant101]

Indipendant Scotland is not going to be a nirvana- Mrs Figg

Of course not,it involves politicians- but thats my point- when the Parliament was created it assumed politicians would try to get away with stuff and tried to preempt it, by for example having transparent and strict rules on MSP's expenses.
It will never be perfect- I doubt a perfect Parliament is possible- but it can still be (and is in my view) a lot better than Westminster.
I also think a smaller popualtion helps and a Parliament that will see far more coalitions than it will outright winners (as the voting is not first-past-the post as it is in Westminister but a more reflective of actual voting PR list system) so the politicians have to be more responsive to voters as each vote means more than it does at Westminster.

I dont expect a nirvana- I just expect something better than what we have now which ineffectual, outdated, adversarial, and full of hidden, sneaky means for MP'stop make a buck without the tax payer knowing.

Who knew for example MP's got 15 quid a day evening meal allowance-one MP claiming that for a week (on a 60+ grand a year wage remember that about to go up to over 70 grand a year) gets more money for food from the tax payer than an unemployed person gets to pay for all their food, electricity, gas ect for a whole week.

And thats just one of the many, many allowances, expenses ect they get the average punter has no idea about.
So who exactly are scroungers here?

[Mrs Figg]

its not going to change, do you seriously think all that sneaky stuff is mysteriously going to stop in an Indipendant Scotland? cos its not not while politicians are human. That Salmond bloke will just establish a comfy little empire for himself and his cronies, just like the English.

[Pettytyrant101]

You seem to have missed my point- which is these things are already in place and a vast improvement on the Westminster set up.
Its already, and always has been more transparent, less confrontational, more concessional and with PR voting.
All things I think are better than the Westminster example- its already better.

Right now my country has 3 parliaments- the Scottish Parliament, Westminister and Europe.
We dont need all 3 three to run a country of a little over 5 million people.
And we certainly dont need to be saddled with an old fashioned Parliament that has become institutionally corrupt.

If we were to adopt your attitude Mrs Figg it would be too throw our hand sup and say we may as well just let them get away with it because there is nothing we can do- thats a defeatist attitude, there is something can be done- and its to hold politicians to account- which happens here much more transparently than at Westminster because our system is newer and has the advantage of having been able to learn what has gone wrong with Westminister over the centuries and so build in measures to prevent that happening.

[Lancebloke]

Yes, and we only learnt from them in the last few years because it got exposed. I am sure there is much more going on that we don't know about and I am sure it wont be long before political scandal hits New Scotland too.

As to your point about coalitions, I think the example of the current coalition goes to show that it isn't always such a great thing. There are clearly differences in opinions on policy and some voters somewhere will by definition need to be let down. Then you end up with the same complaining that we have now.

Think of how many revolutions and celebrated changes of government or moves for independence that there have been. I bet you would match up pretty much exactly with current versions of the same countries full of unrest and corruption.

[Mrs Figg]

Petty I admire your faith in your politicians, your faith in them seems to revolve around them being Scottish and therefore more open and transparent and free from corruption or back handers, and that an old system like the English one will not be copied wholesale in the Scottish system. 'Attitudes like mine' you mean pragmatic? realistic? yes I am being somewhat cynical, but the English system has served us well for a thousand years or so, and by any standard its not so shabby (compared to most countires)

[Pettytyrant101]

Boy you English are pessimistic. I think this must be what losing an Empire does to you!

'I think the example of the current coalition goes to show that it isn't always such a great thing. - Lance

That's because that particular coalition is completely imbalanced- PR makes that unlikely to happen with coalitions much more likely to formed between parties who have a similar percent of the vote-Lib dims came last in General Election- but their small numbers was enough to make the much bigger Tory numbers enough to be the winners- its not even close to a coalition of equals. The Tories at least can claim they didnt get a majority but still got the most votes- the dims dont have any political mandate form the people at all to govern. Coalitions in Scotland so far have been between parties who got reasonable slices of the vote,so they are more legitimate and one cannot dominate the other as the Tories have the Dims. And in Westminster the layout means the coalition partners party are off to the side and out the game- in Scotland the horseshoe arrangement means no one has prominence- small thing but big effect on how things are conducted.

"Petty I admire your faith in your politicians, your faith in them seems to revolve around them being Scottish"- Mrs Figg

I have neither faith in politicians or faith in them being Scottish making a blind difference.
What does give me faith is the mix of civil service, media and political scrutiny that goes on at the Scottish Parliament.
The politicians who created it, men like Donald Dewar, were career Westminster politicians, they spent all their careers in that culture.
It would have been all to easy for them to have replicated it with all the hidden perks and expenses of Westminster and to have kept them out the easy gaze of press or public, just like they were at Westminster - but they didnt-instead they created a series of very tough legislation (which means if Salmond has lunch at the tax payers expense I can go find out what he ate, where he ate it and how much it cost) which prevents the Westminster scandals being possible.
This is not wishful thinking, or some Scottish dream, it is what happened- so my faith that it is possible when given the opportunity to create something form scratch, that it can and will be improved is based solely on reality.

If you take the US constitution as an example- its not near perfect- but what it gave the chance for was to create a new Parliament that was better than the old, and which could incorporate new ideas (at the time) which had arisen during the period of the old rule, but which the old rule was to inflexible and stuck in its ways to adapt to.

I see Scotland in that sense- we have a chance to create a new Parliament based on ideas that are the result of lessons learnt from generations of rule under the old.
It wont be perfect, but it has a damn good chance of being better if we want it to.
But we need the power to do it and that means being free of Westminster to take those decisions ourselves.

[Mrs Figg]

''Boy you English are pessimistic. I think this must be what losing an Empire does to you''

*bitch*  

[Pettytyrant101]

Well must be some explanation for your outlook. Where's the passion?!

This is why England needs crabbit.
You have frustration instead which is no good at all-its internal.
Crabbit is external-its ranting at the world- its seeing its shit and pointing it out, loudly, angrily,passionately,until it bloody well gets fixed.

[David H]

I wish we'd lose our "empire"! 

[Pettytyrant101]

There is major,damning report due out today into 14 English NHS Trusts.
I was flicking through Fox news and they had a big piece on it- highlighting it asthe way they see Obamacare going- and why the NHS is a failed socialist experiment- they quite rightly highlight the horrifying list of scandals and disasters which has led to the report today -

'An investigation by the U.K. Daily Telegraph found that some patients are forced to wait up to eight hours inside ambulances because there are not enough beds inside hospitals.
Senior NHS doctors and managers say up to 20 hospitals across the country may close to avoid financial ruin.
If you are sick on a weekend, fewer doctors are available.
The Telegraph quotes senior officials as saying 4,000 lives a year are lost because of poor weekend care. These officials call the current trend in the NHS "unsustainable."
One health minister referred to scandals and cover-ups in patient deaths at two hospitals as part of a "rotten culture" in the NHS.
In March, the Daily Mail reported "Nearly 1,200 people have starved to death in NHS hospitals" because "nurses are too busy to feed patients."
At Stafford Hospital, police are investigating the deaths of 300 patients over a four-year period. They suspect neglect, even criminality, may have contributed to their deaths.
In February, the Telegraph reported "More than 3,000 people may have died unnecessarily at five NHS trusts."
Why isn't this a lesson for the U.S.? Why do people believe government is more competent than the private sector, despite numerous examples to the contrary?'- Fox News


So pretty damning-so whats the problem?
Well its what Fox doesnt tell you, the detail, where the devil always is-  all the hospitals involved are NHS Trusts- when you hear Brits complaining about the privatization of the NHS- this is what they are talking about. This is private sector involvement.
This is not a failure of a socialist idea- its capitalism screwing up a socialist idea that worked.
You might also note these scandals are all in England.
Health is a devolved issue and has been in Scotland since the 1940's.
We dont have any NHS Trusts in the English sense, we have good old fashioned Health Boards.
And yes sometimes there are major problems-we have a scandal right now to do with the disposing of baby ashes- but there is nothing like the scale of awfulness these 14 English Trusts have demonstrated.

So if any US hobbits out there hear this presented as a case against a National Health Service-do bear in mind this is actually the private sector operating the NHS on behalf of the government. This is the result of letting the markets into Health.

[Mrs Figg]

For you US hobbits, in Scotland the nurses are all dressed in sub Benny Hill sexy nursey costumes and you never have to wait longer than 2 seconds to be seen. So make sure you are ill in Scotland not England. and the Engish doctors are all involved in secret Bilderberg societies and will steal your organs if you stand still long enough, so avoid going to England, Scotland is perfect.  

[Pettytyrant101]

Not my fault Figgs your country is now shit.

But the point I have been trying to highlight in recent posts is that there is growing gulf between English and Scottish politics-we are left of centre-England right (and increasingly so) of centre.

Everything in the above post is simply facts- all the NHS trusts involved have private sector involvement-they are all in England and we dont have those Trusts here.

Just as in England you have to pay tuition fees, prescription charges and your own transport costs if your elderly and in Scotland you dont.
Its a matter of what a government chooses to prioritize- and the English one prioritizes the wealthy over the poor- we dont.

Its not close to perfect, but do I think its a lot better than the direction England is going in? Definitely. Hence why I think we need independence before England drags us along with it into heartlessness.

Sadly the Benny Hill nurses uniform is not standard!

[Mrs Figg]

it will be the same old story

[azriel]

Sad thing is, we English want what you Scottish have, or are having ! My son wanted to go to Uni, bowed out cos of fees, Our local hospital should be wired up to a Funeral Parlour cos the wait is so long ! There are so many wrongs here, but WE dont want it this way ! I suggest a lynching, (but with all the Dutch Elm disease Im wondering if we have enough trees to hang the bodkins from ?)