Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [2]

[Pettytyrant101]

Just two at a time!

[Gandalf's Beard]

Just two at a time!

Well, I just need to add a PS.

PS: Orwell, if you really believe that democracy is spread by invading, mass-murdering, torturing, raping, and stealing the resources of other nations (which is exactly what you have been defending, all protestations to the contrary), then you are a DISGRACE to the name of Orwell, and I DEMAND you cease abusing his good name immediately.



GB

[Orwell]

Sigh! It looks like I'll have to go through this post by post!

Israel has Nukes, Pakistan has Nukes. And Israel has been looking for an excuse to start a war with Iran for ages. Fair is Fair. The only reason Iran wants Nukes is as a deterrent to an attack from Israel.

Scaring Israel into attacking them is a funny way to deter them.

The Iranian government is given to overblown hyperbole, but they aren't stupid. They know that any attempt at a first strike will lead to the annihilation of their country by the US and Israel. Iran does NOT want a war with the West because they know they would lose. What they want is to deter the US and Israel from attacking them.

They want nukes - but not to muscle up in the region - just to deter...

If Iraq had Nukes, the US would not have been so keen to invade, occupy, and commit mass-murder in Iraq.

No, they would have done the same themselves to Saddam. (While we're speculating... )

All this hype for war in the media is as baseless as the drum-up for the war with Iraq (and Afghanistan too for that matter), and the flames are being fanned by Israel and the nut-cases in the US Right Wing of the Establishment. Anyone that believes the propaganda hasn't been paying attention.

No war - but a quick military strike to wipe out Iran's nuke program is pending. If Iran don't give it up, they'll be bombed. Funny kind of logic from peace loving Iran: "We know you're gonna bomb our nuke program if it progresses too far - unless the UN somehow persuade you (Israel) not to. Oh that could happen, so we'll keep doing it." Doesn't Iran know Israel better than that. A few hawks in Israel, you know. It's pure madness on Iran's part. In that case, we certainly don't want mad people with bombs. (In this case 'Mad' = Religious Freaks).

YOU, of all people, should know this Orwell. I think you should consider changing your username to Orwell is an Idiot, because clearly you sop up the propaganda like a cat laps up milk.

Yum yum yum. Tasty truth for dinner! (Not to everyone's taste - some like sweet nothings instead - fed to them by Iran!)

[Orwell]

Israel might not be a theocracy, but I have a hard time describing a country that requires its citizens to swear religious oaths of loyalty as secular.

Yeah, for all intents and purposes Israel is a Theocracy.


GB

No more than America ---- and far far far less than Iran.

[Orwell]

Sigh! It looks like I'll have to go through this post by post! - GB

Made my heart soar to read that! Welcome back GB!

He'll turn on you, Petty, you know he will, as soon as you raise one of your perfectly ridiculous theories. Then you'll be sorry.

[Orwell]

PS: Orwell, if you really believe that democracy is spread by invading, mass-murdering, torturing, raping, and stealing the resources of other nations (which is exactly what you have been defending, all protestations to the contrary), then you are a DISGRACE to the name of Orwell, and I DEMAND you cease abusing his good name immediately. GB

Excellent strategy as usual, GB. Try to defeat me by misrepresenting my views. Classic GB.... A futile strategy, of course, but no one could ever say you weren't determined in your mincing Liberal-lefty-ism!

Welcome back!

[Gandalf's Beard]

Good Ol' Orwell, baiting and prancing around inanely.

You KNOW I'm right!!! Your feeble responses demonstrate my superiour argument!

EPIC FAIL in your attempt to bait me.

You'll have to come up with some new topic now that I have defeated you.


GB

[Orwell]

Bait and defeat! Which I've done brilliantly (as usual)!

[Gandalf's Beard]

OH YEAH!!!???

I don't think so.



Game. Set. And. Match.

You iz pwned biatch!!!


GB

[Orwell]

Is violence your answer to all the world's problems?

[Gandalf's Beard]

It is in yours.

According to you the invasions, occupations, and mass-murders committed by the US, the UK and/or NATO are justified if they put a puppet regime in power and pretend to call it democracy.

That is THE HISTORICAL TRUTH of the matter. But go ahead and put on your propaganda blinders...

....if it makes you feel better about defending Western Imperialism!


GB

[Ringdrotten]

I've missed this

[Pettytyrant101]

Me too. Well until he starts trying to talk PJ of course!

[Orwell]

You delusional ideologue GB!

And I'm trying to be nice!

[halfwise]

I was wondering why all my posts had been ignored for the last half day or so. Now I know: all the fun's over here!

Move over Ringrotten, and pass the popcorn.

- Halfw ... er... Nigel.

[Orwell]

{{{{{I have a fear, Halfwise, and I'm certainly not trying to stir the pot here, far from it, but do you think GB is a secret bomb-packing Islamist? }}}}}

[halfwise]

{{{ Look at the Beard, Orwell, and draw your own conclusions. But I think, being an American, he's just trying to explode idealogues. The country's simply filthy with them. }}}

[Orwell]

{{{Ideologues versus ideolgues! Wow! Who woulda thought it! }}}

What was the point of those guys in Libya destroying those War Graves?

[Gandalf's Beard]

PULSED ENERGY WEAPONS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_Energy_Projectile
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/pep.htm



http://deltacorporation.org/epw-s.php

Delta's flagship EPW-S sniper rifle is a fully equipped sniper rifle with scope, silencer and a multipurpose lam, drawing power from an energy reserve that allows the user far greater flexibility than conventional bullets. Rather than requiring the user to carry and load a sackful of different bullets, the EPW-S delivers damage using a single energy bolt that can be configured to any of a large number of damage profiles stored in the gun's RAM. Different profiles use more or less energy, but once the gun is charged it's possible to switch profile without the need to recharge. The profiles cover simple kinetic damage, which will work in most combat systems, linden damage for damage enabled land and no fewer than 15 specialised CCS profiles.

http://961wodz.com/the-best-non-lethal-weapons/

Here’s a rundown from ModernMan.com of some cool non-lethal weapons that cops use to restore law and order:

--Extended Range Electronic Projectile (XREP)- Riot police use 12-gauge shotguns with these projectiles, which basically amount to wireless tasers with ranges of more than 100 feet.

--Thunder Generator Sound Cannon- This thing creates a shock wave capable of stunning people up to 100 yards away.

--Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD)- It’s a 45-pound black disc capable of producing a beam of sound so painful it brings you to your knees and causes permanent hearing loss.

--Brite Strike Tactical Balls- These balls contain an LED flash of light so intense it’s like looking directly into a solar eclipse.

--Pulsed Energy Projectile (PEP)- The PEP, which can be attached to the roof of a normal military vehicle, fires a pulse that can knock a man onto his back from more than a mile away. It also emits electromagnetic radiation that causes temporary paralysis.

SILENCE LAW
US Congress expands authoritarian anti-protest law
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/mar2012/prot-m03.shtml

SILENCE GUN
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/weird-gun-future-attacks-words-not-people-193050045.html




How to Fund an American Police State
Real Money for an Imaginary War
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/03/05-2


MILITARY DRONES NOW BEING USED DOMESTICALLY
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/11/9360170-report-us-drones-helping-local-police-agencies
http://lesterhhunt.blogspot.com/2012/02/police-surveillance-drones-time-to-draw.html





That Cyber-punk Dystopian Fascist Police State is HERE Orwell, and you think we're spreading "democracy"?????? How can WE spread something we don't don't even have???


GB

[Orwell]

Hey! Half those weapons are non-lethal! What the.... bloody pacifists...

[Gandalf's Beard]

If by "non-lethal" you mean "potentially lethal but most certainly causes enough pain to be considered torture"......

Read the articles. Most of these devices can cause permanent injury and death.



GB

[Orwell]

I actually saw a consultant to the military give a talk on this stuff and how it might relate to policing.

The whole discussion on appropriate use of force seems to depend on what the 'problem' is that the miltary or police are confronted with. Broadly speaking, are we confronted with a situation where we have three choices of action: (1) Lethal action or (2) Non-lethal action, or (3) let things roll and don't do anything. Of course, this all boils down to establishing what the specific situation is where force 'might' be used.

I have a question, GB. Should police be used as crowd control in any demonstration? If so, what instructions would you give them as far as keeping good order goes? How would you have them perform their role?

[Pettytyrant101]

That gun in the second pic looks like the BFG from Doom- and GB, I hate to say this, but I dont think that guns real so much as a 90's computer game graphic!!

Orwell I don't think its possible for police to successfully do their job if a protest turns violent. Whatever tactic, whatever 'tools' are deployed they are going to be critisised, accidents will happen, tempers will flair. Whether hard line tactics are merited depends of course on the governemtn, what the protest is about and what the aim of the police is. In a democracy the aim of the police should be to allow for a succesful peaceful protest- unfortuntel this is not always happened in the Uk with police measures such as ketlting stoking trouble rather than preventing it- if the people on the otherhand are coming out not in protest but in revolution such as in ME countries at the moment then thats a whole different ball game and probably time for every copper to consider whose side they are on.

[Orwell]

That gun in the second pic looks like the BFG from Doom- and GB, I hate to say this, but I dont think that guns real so much as a 90's computer game graphic!!

Orwell I don't think its possible for police to successfully do their job if a protest turns violent. Whatever tactic, whatever 'tools' are deployed they are going to be critisised, accidents will happen, tempers will flair. Whether hard line tactics are merited depends of course on the governemtn, what the protest is about and what the aim of the police is. In a democracy the aim of the police should be to allow for a succesful peaceful protest- unfortuntel this is not always happened in the Uk with police measures such as ketlting stoking trouble rather than preventing it- if the people on the otherhand are coming out not in protest but in revolution such as in ME countries at the moment then thats a whole different ball game and probably time for every copper to consider whose side they are on.

My experience has been that demonstrations are fine until a small minority start running through stores overturning shelves and displays, and others throwing ball bearings under horses hooves - that are maintaiinng position not advancin - and throwing smelly and/or sharp and/or painful things at you as you maintain a line. I'm not lying either. It's my experience. When the first Gergre Bush came to Ozhobbitstan, I started by getting on well with protesrers, by the end of it I was getting really pissed off with them. (Amazing the change that comes over folk when a camera or two is on them!) Suddenly, protesters were more intent on spitting on me than they were on voicing their grievances. It was eye-opener. And personally, crushing, because on the surface of things, I agreed with a lot of the things they were supposedly protesting about. It was like your friends turning on you when all you are suggesting is that your friends stick to their word and protest peacefully. It only adds to the hurt when people spit on you and throw things, then tell the Media - without blinking - that the police started it. I was naive once, i guess.

[Pettytyrant101]

What sort of tactics do the Oz police deploy for large protests Orwell? Do they use techniques like 'kettling' or putting provocteurs into the crowd?