Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

[Pettytyrant101]

Couldn't you come up with something nice, cheery about the world GB that you can be right about too then we can all be happier!

No idea what weinergate is, fortuntely, although not hard to guess the bulk (sic) of it! Press here is full of something similar, only its even more pointless as its a footballer and a reality tv star.

In all honesty I cannot see the current younger generations doing anything like the 1960's. Not unless you can have a sit in on facebook.

[Gandalf's Beard]

The UK royal family is Scottish! Its ours through King James the V (I of England). Besides cant have a monarch unless they are crowned by magic- and that means they have to sit their royal posterior on the Stone of Scoone, and thats ours too! The english stole it, so we stole it back, then they stole it again. When Scotland got devolution they sent it back to Scotland but kept the right to call on it whenver a monarch needs crowned. In an independant Scotland we would most likely be part of the Commonwealth, but I say we take the whole institution back, flog all the houses, palaces and land in england and make a mint- think how much a huge bit of real estate like Buckingham Palace must be worth in the heart of London! We'd make a mint, and they wouldnt need it as they'd be rehoused at Holyrood Palace in Edinburgh and have the castle.

I think you're onto something. As the UK Royal Family is Scottish, Scotland should declare itself as the Primary State in the UK!!! Instead of separating, take the UK back from England, boot out the Tories (send them packing to Texas where they belong), and take the UK back to the Glorious Days of the Socialist Democracy that it was before Maggie F***** it up!

GB

[Orwell]

The Royal Family is barely Scottish - more Germanic.

[Gandalf's Beard]

Couldn't you come up with something nice, cheery about the world GB that you can be right about too then we can all be happier!

No idea what weinergate is, fortuntely, although not hard to guess the bulk (sic) of it! Press here is full of something similar, only its even more pointless as its a footballer and a reality tv star.

In all honesty I cannot see the current younger generations doing anything like the 1960's. Not unless you can have a sit in on facebook.

Whatever happened to the Flash Mob stuff??? That Flash Mobbing ought to be put to good use. It's simple, Tweet everybody about a Massive Flash Mob Marching on Parliament, and then send a bunch of ringers with banners to lead the way!

Now THAT idea makes me happy!

GB

[Gandalf's Beard]

The Royal Family is barely Scottish - more Germanic.

Screw that nonsense. They're in the UK, not in Germany!!!


GB

[Orwell]

I think the Western World is too comfortably affluent for enough people to find the energy to actually be serious about anything. The Middle East is the place to go to find folk who genuinely want a change from despots whether religious (eg Iran) or secular (eg Egypt). Young people (and old) truly have lives that need to be uplifted - by democracy. Also, there is still much Feminist work to do in those countries.

[Orwell]

GB - the current Royals are descended from the George I.

[Pettytyrant101]

Royals have to marry other royals, none of them are anany nationality! They are royal! Whats important is how you get to be a royal- and for that you need the equipment and its all Scottish. If we don;t give them back the Stone of Destiny then they can crown Prince William all they like, he still won't be a proper King.

I like your plan GB- both of them-reclaim England, move all its industry (whats left) up here, switch the finances from London to Edinburgh and move all the nuclear crap down there- see how they like it.

Orwell so what you are saying is we neeed a brief period of dictatorship to get people motivated? Well were screwed then cause western governments have worked out they can get away with a lot more by doing it incrimentally.

And the Union of Scotland and England was marked by the Scottish King (James) becoming the UK King- so its ours.

[Gandalf's Beard]

I think the Western World is too comfortably affluent for enough people to find the energy to actually be serious about anything. The Middle East is the place to go to find folk who genuinely want a change from despots whether religious (eg Iran) or secular (eg Egypt). Young people (and old) truly have lives that need to be uplifted - by democracy. Also, there is still much Feminist work to do in those countries.

Nothing could be further from the truth "Orwell." The Central (Private) Banks of the US and the UK just wiped out the economy overnight for everyone who is not a millionaire. The problem isn't "comfort;" the problem is demoralization. People need to get ANGRY, and they need to properly aim the ANGER at the Corporations. the Banks, and the Conservatives.

GB

[Gandalf's Beard]

GB - the current Royals are descended from the George I.

What Petty said!


GB

[Orwell]

If Scotland becomes Number One in the Union, will London still be the capitol?

The only voices for revolutionary change in Western Society are the voices I'm against. Ideologues, you know. Give me incremental change anytime - in a genuine democracy - always keeping in mind you can't always get what you want. I'm a Moderate. I believe ibn compromise. Not in violent minorities using protests (and strikes) to overthrow democratically elected governments (even ones I don't particularly like). You are a rabble rouser GB. You too, Petty!

In the Middle East where democracy is needed (and wanted) then violent change maybe is necessary.

[Pettytyrant101]

The cunning thing about companies, financial instituations ect is they are suitably amorphous its hard for people to have an individual or a single thing to aim their anger at- very effective for those in control but devastating for organized resistance.

[Orwell]

How repressed are you Petty?

[Pettytyrant101]

Depends how you define it (and assuming it wasn't just a personnal remark!). Am I persecuted, in fear of my life for voicing an opinion? No. Am I payed a pitance to do a crucial job in society and then taxed overall slightly more than I earn so I am always struggling or in debt, yes. Am I worried the pollice might kick my door in one nght? Yes in fact as the law and I disagree on some particlaur matters (and its happened before in my youth and it was not fun). Do I live in a society where being a feckless celebrity will make you rich but caring for peoples loved ones, the sick and the forgotten will make you poor, yes. Does my govenment lie to me about huge matters such as war in which thousands die in part in my name? Yes. Do I live in a country where our budget (raised in taxes) spends several times more in prosecuting wars than in the wellbeing of it own populace? Yes.
Like I say depends how you look at it.

[Orwell]

None of that repression seems very direct, or different to my own circumstances really, though I guess with my job I might be kicking in your door some day. Why would I kick in your door, I wonder? I won't ask what differences you have with the law, Petty. Who knows who is reading this! But your "repression" doesn't seem too "repressive". Is some of your worry put down to unreasonable paranoia? As to any regime repressing you, this is why I advocate democracy so strongly. You are safer in a strong democracy. As to disagreements with the law - we all have them - even police do themselves.

[Gandalf's Beard]

If Scotland becomes Number One in the Union, will London still be the capitol?

The only voices for revolutionary change in Western Society are the voices I'm against. Ideologues, you know. Give me incremental change anytime - in a genuine democracy - always keeping in mind you can't always get what you want. I'm a Moderate. I believe ibn compromise. Not in violent minorities using protests (and strikes) to overthrow democratically elected governments (even ones I don't particularly like). You are a rabble rouser GB. You too, Petty!

In the Middle East where democracy is needed (and wanted) then violent change maybe is necessary.

How about violent majorities??? (there's a lot less of the Plutocrats then there are of us)

And I'm proud to be a rabble rouser. More rabble needs to be Roused,

And I'm not for violent overthrow of the government (they've got all the big guns). I'm calling for a General Strike to bring the Corporate Plutocracy to their knees and flush them out of our Democratic Institutions. We don't have democratically elected governments any more (not that we've had them for very long--barely a century if that).

Are you one of those people that believe we don't deserve democracy too; or do you think only other countries should have a shot at democracy???


GB

[Gandalf's Beard]

None of that repression seems very direct, or different to my own circumstances really, though I guess with my job I might be kicking in your door some day. Why would I kick in your door, I wonder? I won't ask what differences you have with the law, Petty. Who knows who is reading this! But your "repression" doesn't seem too "repressive". Is some of your worry put down to unreasonable paranoia? As to any regime repressing you, this is why I advocate democracy so strongly. You are safer in a strong democracy. As to disagreements with the law - we all have them - even police do themselves.

Clearly you're not paranoid enough!

The repression is very direct when a small group of Plutocrats hold the reigns of power. But I guess you just don't notice it when the repression is aimed at people who aren't you!

GB

[Pettytyrant101]

I don;t think its unreasonable or paranoia. My wages dont stack up against the tax bills. The governemtn definetly lied about war, everyone knows that now.
As to police kicking my door in- I was completely innocent so have no problem talking about- they said they had received a tip off I was growing cannabis (I can't even keep house plants a live it was laughable) but nevertheless they smashed my front door down. I was sitting in my living room watching tv at the time with my feet up on the table in front of me. They were in the room before I knew what was happening (they move fast I'll give them that) and the first thing that happened was the head CID booted, and I do mean booted, my legs off the table and declared "This is our ****ing place now you don't so much as put your feet up without my say so." They then proceeded to rip my place apart, tipped everything onto the floor out of drawers and cupboards, turned my furniture upside down and ripped the bottoms open with knives - I got another kick for asking what sort of plants they were expecting to find in my couch-and when eventually it was clear they had made a mistake they left without so much as a sorry and left me with a wrecked flat, a smashed front door and an angry landlord. So fear for my life no- fear of similar again, certainly. It was not pleasant, fair or just.

Besides just because I live in a country thats better than a lot of others does not mean there's not a lot wrong still that needs fighting.

[Gandalf's Beard]

I don;t think its unreasonable or paranoia. My wages dont stack up against the tax bills. The governemtn definetly lied about war, everyone knows that now.
As to police kicking my door in- I was completely innocent so have no problem talking about- they said they had received a tip off I was growing cannabis (I can't even keep house plants a live it was laughable) but nevertheless they smashed my front door down. I was sitting in my living room watching tv at the time with my feet up on the table in front of me. They were in the room before I knew what was happening (they move fast I'll give them that) and the first thing that happened was the head CID booted, and I do mean booted, my legs off the table and declared "This is our ****ing place now you don't so much as put your feet up without my say so." They then proceeded to rip my place apart, tipped everything onto the floor out of drawers and cupboards, turned my furniture upside down and ripped the bottoms open with knives - I got another kick for asking what sort of plants they were expecting to find in my couch-and when eventually it was clear they had made a mistake they left without so much as a sorry and left me with a wrecked flat, a smashed front door and an angry landlord. So fear for my life no- fear of similar again, certainly. It was not pleasant, fair or just.

Besides just because I live in a country thats better than a lot of others does not mean there's not a lot wrong still that needs fighting.

Besides, other than the NHS in the UK (which is being dismantled as we speak), we really aren't that much better off than other countries. In many ways we're worse off, because people (like you Orwell [the real Orwell must be rolling in the grave]) are either wearing media induced blinders, or they've been beaten into submission.

Orwell. You might want to take another look at that video clip of "Brazil" I posted, or better yet just watch the whole movie. It's a precise representation of our societies.

GB

[Orwell]

As to police kicking my door in- I was completely innocent so have no problem talking about- they said they had received a tip off I was growing cannabis (I can't even keep house plants a live it was laughable) but nevertheless they smashed my front door down. I was sitting in my living room watching tv at the time with my feet up on the table in front of me. They were in the room before I knew what was happening (they move fast I'll give them that) and the first thing that happened was the head CID booted, and I do mean booted, my legs off the table and declared "This is our ****ing place now you don't so much as put your feet up without my say so." They then proceeded to rip my place apart, tipped everything onto the floor out of drawers and cupboards, turned my furniture upside down and ripped the bottoms open with knives - I got another kick for asking what sort of plants they were expecting to find in my couch-and when eventually it was clear they had made a mistake they left without so much as a sorry and left me with a wrecked flat, a smashed front door and an angry landlord. So fear for my life no- fear of similar again, certainly. It was not pleasant, fair or just.

I think we had a bit of a conversation about this episode at some stage, Petty, sounds familiar? Possibly by private email some time back? Anyhow, if it had been me (and I guess I'm aware of how things go) I would have put in a complaint. Was this when you were younger? Sounds like someone "put you in" and wrongly. Did those police have a Warrant? Sadly, those things can happen, but there is usually some sort of recourse to be taken. In Victoria, Australia, we cops have to conduct ourselves very carefully. Your circumstance would have required a Warrant, with strict conditions on what police could do. This is not to say all police act correctly. That's why we have an Ethical Standards section, but also other Non Police avenues of complaint. Do you have similar protections?

[Orwell]

I must watch "Brazil" one day! Might I say up front - I have seen my fair share of "cop" shows. The realism (factual) factor is usually low - even the pro-cop shows.

[Pettytyrant101]

They had a warrant, they had to have its the same here. Yes it was in my youth, which was misspent but not in a way which should reallyhave upset the authorities, I was certainly no trouble to them. They told me they were responding to a 'tip off' but obviousy they could not say who from (if they even knew). And it was harrassment that continued for a few months, within a week of the above incident I was stopped and searched 3 times in the street by 3 different groupings of cops all in one walk between my house and my friends about half a mile away. Eventually it just stopped as mysteriously as it had begun. Never had so much as a crossed word (or any words) with the police since. But doesn't change the sense of injustice it engendered at the time and which remains. The hypocrictical thing of course is if they thought I was brewing beer rather then growing plants it would have been fine and smiles all round.

[Orwell]

Perhaps you should have brewed beer! Maybe they were sending a subliminal message to you, that they wanted to be friends. They were just too shy to ask outright. (I think you're kind of cool as you know, and I'm one of 'em! ) Maybe those cops realized they were barking up the wrong tree. (Can only hope they turned out "nice" though - they seem a bit like dinosaurs to me, and I've met a few, especially early on in my career).

Funny, considering how many people I've charged over the years, I've had no one complain about me - except some "up-standing" people I bent over backwards to help recently - including doing some inquiries off-duty and unpaid! - who still complained about my lack of action. I think they would have liked me to go and kick in a door without a warrant or any evidence whatsoever - I declined. I guess that made me arrogant, not doing what they wanted, who knows? The upshot was, when the complaint was made, I let my supervisor know my side of the tale. The upstanding citizens agreed with every detail of my account and changed their mind to being "very happy" with what I had done so far! (Lucky I am trusted by my supervisors, because I'm a screaming liberal who believes the truth is important, and I also keep notes!) The upstanding people asked for me to continue the investigation. I declined. Someone else is stuck with them now.

You know, I've met more people who aren't criminals that have irked me than I have the actual criminals - and I don't mean jay-walkers. Criminals don't always have good back stories and I can even feel some empathy for them even if I'm charging them for what they've done. In fact, most criminals I've dealt with are quite civil to me, and me them. I'm not a Judge, you see. (((((Don't ask Odo what he thinks about criminals though - I guess he's more respectable than me!))))) You know, I don't really even think of people as criminals usually. But what else can I say to differentiate people who don't commit crimes from those who do?

Tangent: I charged a young person with a serious offence very recently - it will go to trial. Funny thing was, this young person disliked my Sergeant but he liked me - at least he was pleasantly co-operative with me. The next day - after I remanded the young person overnight - this young person's solicitor turned up to help him, and he was not nice to her neither! Human beings don't always act as you would expect. Who knows who they will take a shine to? Even the enemy, it seems! Actually, this kind of thing happens to me regularly. Maybe I'm not nasty enough --- must work on that. (Mind, they nearly always plead guilty, so I guess being nice is okay so long as you do your job thorough like).

I've wandered off haven't I. Anyhow, I'm glad your local police now find you.. dare I say... respectable Petty.

[Pettytyrant101]

My own assumpton was that they were just pissed at a wasted bust and decided to keep at it for a bit just to make sure I hadnt' been lucky or out foxed them. And when it became blatant that at worst I was just an old hippy spirit they decided it wasn't worth persuing. In general I have alot of sympathy for the police in what is often a thankless task but that sort of thing tends to undermine that. And I have a problem with police who in private will break ceratin laws (particularyl those around dope smoking) and the very next day bust someone for the same thing. Sorry but to me that taking your pieces of silver as the price of your conscions. Morally I couldn't do that so I have a problem with that.

[Gandalf's Beard]

Why does Orwell remind me of Odo??? Funny that! Odo's gone missing and now we have his "real world equivalent, without the lunacy"????


Dammit Odo. Come clean! I know it's you hiding behind yet another of your various characters (allegedly the "original version")


GB