Religous debates and questions

I crave chocolate ice cream. Had this problem since childhood. If I couldn't get it legally I shouldn't be punished for stealing it from little boys....

Shocking rationalization for covering up psychological trauma to youngsters.

weasel words as usual from the catholic church, ensures abusive priests are not held accountable for their behaviour

Wait a minute.....you said something and I understood it!

what?! this shuld be screencapped.

weird

1 time Sofia and rigby and I went all the way to the top of lone tree with rikki and beermanvince and we were so scared the whole way there

At the moment Im watching a programne on channel more4 called "sex in a cold climate". Its about how young Irish women were cruelly treated by none other than the hypocritical catholic church in the 1940/50s, Its sad to see these women crying over losing their babies, & how they were treated like the scum of the earth ! When you see how cute the babies were,often way under a yr old, given away to couples to adopt, & as I have 4 kids, it touches you ! & it wasnt just losing the babies either, its all the other shit that was inflicted on the women ! Not being Irish or a catholic, I wonder how much is as true today as it was 60 yrs ago ?

I think its not so much religion itself as the way it has been used to control female fertility that makes me angry, all religions and traditions and social norms are used to do this, but its all based on questions of heredity and money. Hundreds of years ago men wanted to be sure their heirs were genetically theirs and not Fred's or Tom's or Harry's, they started thinking up ways of keeping women in line, first they tried burning us at the stake, and then they used more subtle methods like calling us hoors if we acted like men, and religion, law, politics , education and social constructs did the rest. its nothing to do with religion its all about control over birthright and property.

I'm not so sure about that Mrs Figg.
If you go back far enough in many cultures you find women in dominant roles- High Priestess, female Goddess being far more important than their male consorts, tribes and even empires being run by a woman.

That switch around, from earlier female led societies and later male dominant ones than began emerging from about 1000bc onwards has always fascinated me, and never as far as I am aware been adequetly explained.

Catherine The great ?

Yes but later examples are more of women ruling a male society- go a lot further back you find female societies, with strong female symbolism in everyday life.

ok, but im tempted to find out sometime ? I know your probably right but Im like a dog with a bone sometimes !

Ill try to find some interesting links on the subject.

in all major ancient civilisations men > women

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Ill try to find some interesting links on the subject.

halfwise wrote:I hope so, I've heard about the great switcheroo but was never sure if it was mainly feminist propaganda or not.

I should say new age/feminist propaganda, as most references to the "earth mother" seem to be new age.

Edit: That was an edit? I thought I was quoting. Whatever.

Petty I am talking about from the Middle Ages not pre-history, you cant dispute my points because they are fact. Women were basically sold off by fathers and male members of the family to increase the wealth power and land of the family. fact. maybe in very ancient female goddess times before Christianity there were female led societies but for at least the last thousand years in the UK its been male dominated.

It does kinda feel that way,Mrs Figg. Maggie Thatcher was a rock of stone but the male counter parts would have just loved to see her fall,no matter what the sucker-uppers say. We DO have a Queen, but what power does she actually wield ? Kings were more a frightning force in the old days, Queens might have been cunning,devious,back stabbing,poisoning & maniplative but I didnt find them frightning in a powerful, "Im gonna hack your head off" kinda way. QE 1st was tough but still had men dictating to her, QV was strong enough to carry on after Prince Albert popped off, Im trying to think who else ? apart from the obvious one..Boudicia ?

Petty was referring to 1000 BC, not BP. 3000 years ago.

Indeed I dont dispute at all Mrs Figg that male led societies have dominated- at that predates Christianity- which itself comes out of a mix of already exisiting patriarchal male led religions like Judiasm- its what came before them that is interesting in terms of female led society.

Against my better judgement I'm going to weigh in on this. I come from a family with a long history of women as head of the household, as teachers and medical professionals, going to college etc. going back at least to the 1840's.

One of the things that made my mother furious about the dogma of 1970's feminism was how it painted women of the past as continual victims. She's much more approving of the modern trend of honoring the history of accomplishments of women in history.

It seems clear to me that throughout history the institution of marriage has been used for power by both sexes. You can argue about their historical accuracy if you like, but Shakespeare's plays are filled with examples of strong-willed powerful women. So are the Icelandic sagas of 500 years earlier. That's what makes them ring true.

I have to agree with you David, Ive never liked the idea of women as victims, (unless its domestic violence !) Women are stronger than you would believe, & thats certainly true of so called aristocracy. Even on a lesser social standing,women have worked their way to where they wanna be, what women lack with brute strength we make up for mentally ! & MAYBE with more determination ? Shakespeare's "Taming of the shrew" is a great portrayal of women, Frigg,Odins wife was stated to be a match for Odin if she wanted, & could out wit him if she was determined, ok, I know she was a mythical figure, but, mythical figures are often an embelishment of human traits. Ive also noticed that with Norse Saga's that the women are given roles of either beauty/plentyful/fertility. But, then you get the other extreme where women were handed the duty of revenge/spite/diguise/death. Both equally powerful positions.

but. But! Shiny things

Shiny things on shoes is the killer combination.

CC12 35 wrote:but. But! Shiny things

That was cute.

And if I can figure out why women like shoes so much the doors to the universe will lay helplessly open before me, ready for plunder. (especially silly shoes)

CC12 35 wrote:but. But! Shiny things

Once again I'm fascinated by the deft, precise use of willfully nonstandard punctuation. Reminiscent of e.e. cummings. I am NOT poking fun, I'm seriously impressed.