Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ It's not just the withholding aid, bombing a designated safe zone and humanitarian corridor is also a war crime. If this keeps up its really going to explode in the Middle East and countries like Saudi or even Iran won't have much of a say in it, their own people, militant groups and such will take matters into their own hands and that will be disastrous. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Update on the Church bombing, with Israel still saying only a wall was damaged. Reports from the scene tell a very different story- }}

'Video from the ground in Gaza City showed damage at the site of St. Porphyrius Greek Orthodox Church campus and its surrounding area after an Israeli airstrike on Thursday night. The main impact of the strike heavily damaged a building adjacent to the church compound. One church building was partially collapsed by the airstrike, according to CNN's analysis of the video, which CNN commissioned.
The footage from the ground also shows people working collectively to go through rubble searching for any bodies. At one point, a group of people can be seen dragging a body wrapped in a blanket out of the rubble.
Inside in the building, about 150 people, old people, young people, children, babies… then all these people are under ruins...One man, who did not want to be identified by name, said the church compound included "a shelter for more than 500 Christians," including "children, women, elderly, (and) ill" people...A man on the scene said he was mourning the loss of his three children and other family members, saying they were killed in the strike.
The Israel Defense Forces has said it will have more information on the strike, but it did not respond to CNN questions on when that information would be available.
"Targeting churches and their institutions, along with the shelters they provide to protect innocent citizens, especially children and women who have lost their homes due to Israeli airstrikes on residential areas over the past thirteen days, constitutes a war crime that cannot be ignored," the patriarchate's statement read.- CNN

[Pettytyrant101]

'The Palestinian Red Crescent says that Israeli forces have issued an evacuation order to Al-Quds hospital in Gaza.
The hospital is currently home to over 400 patients and 12,000 displaced civilians, according to the Red Crescent.'

{{ Its also clear the Palestinian Red Crescent is of the opinion Israel blew the other hospital up for refusing to close, as their statement urged the International Community to "act urgently, averting another catastrophe like Al-Ahli Hospital".

If this hospital refuses to evacuate (forcing them too is another war crime, how many are we just going to let slide with Israel?) and mysteriously gets blown up it's going to look very suspect indeed. }}

[halfwise]

If Biden has any brains at all he'll publicly use the aircraft carrier in the region as cover for supply ships. This would gain America tremendous credibility while still being there to deter other actors from attacking Israel. It's such an obvious win-win it's infuriating.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Well Israel opened the border, for five minutes, long enough to let 20 trucks in which all the aid agencies say isn't far off no good, they need many, many times that number.

Meanwhile Israeli war crimes continue apace- here is the Al Zhara region of Gaza, home to a bunch of residential tower blocks, well I say here it is, but whats left is this-





And Israelis excuse for this barbarity?

'The BBC has asked the IDF for comment on what specifically was targeted in Al Zahra but is yet to receive a response.'

Of course not, the aim was clear, to kill.

Meanwhile protests are taking place across the world against Israels cruelty, and in Arab countries its starting to get close t the point where the governments may not be in charge of the people if Israel keeps pushing this.

Pakistan-



Jordan-



Turkey-



Quatar-



Lebannon-



Yemen-



Iraq-



Egypt-



London-



Australia-



Germany-



And thats just the tip of the ocean of countries currently with mass protests against Israel. Well I'll say this for Israel, they seem to have managed to unite the world behind a single cause! }}

[halfwise]

Here's an Israeli perspective. I think he's drinking some kool-aid, but much of what he says is true as well. He doesn't address the humanitarian aid.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ he's definitely on the kool-aid, just got to the bit hes talking about the 'kids' are 16/17 year old fighters firing rockets, but reporting that doesn't fit the narrative of Israelis killing kids.
Just last night at work I watched on the BBC News channel their world affairs spokesman, respected journalist John Simpson, in Gaza. They were observing kids, aged from about 12-17 throwing stones from slings at the Israeli's, whilst filming the reporter counted 9 kids shot by Israeli snipers. There is no excuse for that.

As for the assertion that civilian casualties are not high - right there is the crux of this issue- Israel does not see Palestinians as innocent, as far as they are concerned they are all terrorists so on that count civilian casualties are low if you count everyone as a combatant.
In reality the vast majority of Palestinians just want to live in their own country with their own government and laws and the civilian casualties are in the thousands, and injured tens of thousands. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ The Cairo Peace Summit just called out the West in plain terms- }}

“The message the Arab world is hearing is that Palestinian lives matter less than Israeli ones,”- King Abdullah of Jordan

[Pettytyrant101]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-middle-east-67176203

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ I cant work out if Israel is in an odd state of self-delusion, or if they just dont care and are happy to lie-

'UN officials describe the situation in Gaza as catastrophic. Israeli military spokesman Daniel Hagari said humanitarian conditions in Gaza were "under control".'

If by that he means its under control because there isnt any humanitarian conditions left then he might have a point. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Israel now pretty much openly admitting they are treating all Palestinians in the north of Gaza as terrorists-

'Leaflets, dropped over Gaza City, come with a sinister warning: anyone who does not move south may end up being seen as what is described as an accomplice to a terrorist organisation.'- BBC

In other words if your stuck, cant get out, or have nowhere to go, tough were going to kill you and your family.}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Unimaginably, its about to get worse}}

'In the last few minutes we've heard from Daniel Hagari, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), who says Israel's military plans to increase its strikes on Gaza, starting this evening.'- BBC

[Pettytyrant101]

{ Well this could be, interesting for its fallout, the IDF say has taken out a Hamas control centre in the West Bank. One problem, the building they claim it was in, and which they have blown up, is a mosque. }}

[Pettytyrant101]

Thirteen people - including five children - were reportedly killed in the West Bank during an Israeli security forces operation in the Nur Shams refugee camp, according to the UN's relief and works agency- BBC

{{ Im sure those kids were a real threat to Israel! }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{Its Ok Im sure Israel has identified them as terrorist Hamas babies that deserve to die.}}

[Mrs Figg]

I can't take much more of reading about this. The tragedy is beyond words. How can two peoples kill each other for thousands of years without some terrible karmic shit seeping into the very stones. At least tragedies in Africa and South America are logical and you can get your mind round it, because it's normally due to rampant corruption, incompetence, and low IQ leaders. But religious tragedies are impossible to solve, Catholics vs Protestant, Jew vs Muslim, that's never going to stop.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ There is one thing that really troubles me now and gives me a very bad feeling, something Netanyahu said today according to the BBC - 'He said he could not say whether Hezbollah, Lebanon's most powerful military force, had decided to enter the war. If they did, he warned, Israel would strike them with a force they could not even imagine.'

'A force they could not even imagine'. That sounds familiar, sounds very like some things Putin said, which the West has always taken as veiled threats that he would use nukes if NATO were to directly intervene in Ukraine.
And of course, among its many now breaches of International Law, Israel has illegal nukes provided, also illegally by the US, it's one of the worst kept secrets in the world (and ironically the only ME country taken out for illegally having nukes, Iraq, was the only one who actually didn't have any) and almost certainly so does Saudi have nukes. And Iran at a push could probably either convert its power reactors in short space, or get a loan of what they need from Russia. So I really hope my bad feeling is wrong. }}

[halfwise]

Too close, even Netanyahu wouldn't risk the nuclear fallout drifting across the borders.

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ You're thinking too WW2. Modern battlefield tactical nuke is different kettle of fish.
And I don't like what being said much at the moment by Israel, doesn't give much hope that they plan for anything less than a massacre and the complete depopulation of Gaza, either by killing or driving out all Palestinians.

'at a Gazan hospital - Al-Aqsa Martyrs - where a staff member said they were running out of material to cover the dead.
Images, some of which we decided not to share, showed bodies stacked in a courtyard outside. Similar scenes are being played out at hospitals across Gaza...UN's agency for Palestinian refugees, which says 29 of its staff have now been killed..."Half of these colleagues were teachers," the agency added of its latest toll...We've just been sent this update from our correspondent Rushdi Abualouf, who is reporting from a camp in Gaza where about 2,000 displaced people are living in tents.
He says people in the camp, which was set up by the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, are struggling to find water, food, medication and bathrooms...The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says 266 Palestinians have been killed in the last 24 hours, including 117 children...We have seen graphic images showing the bodies of at least a dozen children at a hospital in central Gaza.' - BBC

Meanwhile in the land of evil religious insanity-

'Overnight air strikes in Gaza have killed "dozens of terrorists", the Israeli military says.'

Dozens? Worth 117 children's lives and 149 adults worth?

'Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has warned Hezbollah - Lebanon's most powerful military force - against opening a second war front with Israel.
It would be making the "mistake of its life" if it did, he said when speaking to Israeli troops near the border with Lebanon.
He said it would bring Israeli counter-strikes of "unimaginable" magnitude that would wreak "devastation" upon Lebanon.'

Still sounds like a nuke threat to me.

'Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said it was "do or die" for Israel.'

Do what exactly? Wipe out everyone it calls an enemy? Palestinians, Lebanese, Iranian? The more they keep slaughtering and committing blatant war crimes the more enemies they will have. And if by die he means Israel either stands now or falls forever, then they have nothing to lose, even using the extremist measures. They have already showed no regard for civilians and an utter lack of any human compassion for the suffering of civilian and innocents they are causing by blanket bombing, starving, depriving of water, forcing the closure of hospitals and humanitarian refuges and denying aid and help from crossing the border, and they show no hint of desiring to do anything other than increase that suffering.}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ The contrast between Israelis actions and their words is frightening-

Reality-

'At least 26 people were killed after Israeli strikes on the Jabalia refugee camp.....29 people were killed in the city of Rafah after four houses were struck...Buildings in Rafah, Khan Younis, Central Gaza and Gaza City were struck overnight, including several residential homes...23 journalists have been killed in the Israel-Hamas conflict as of Sunday, with another eight reported injured and three reported missing or detained...Doctors at the Al Aqsa Martyrs Hospital in central Gaza said they endured a "bloody day," overwhelmed by the number of casualties from a flurry of Israeli airstrikes. Thomas White from the UNRWA said 8,000 people were taking shelter in his organisation's warehouse complex and surviving on just one litre of water a day and small amounts of bread...Some parents in Gaza have resorted to writing their children's names on their legs to help identify them...the Al-Shifa Hospital, doctors have been forced to reduce the duration of dialysis sessions for hundreds of kidney patients as electricity and fuel supplies dwindle...In the last few hours there have been reports of explosions near several hospitals in Gaza. It's still unclear if there are any casualties. The hospitals include Al-Shifa, the largest medical complex in Gaza, as well as Al-Quds and the Indonesian Hospital, according to the Reuters news agency'

Whatever realty Israel is operating from-

'The Israel Defense Forces said in a statement on Sunday night that it struck “dozens of Hamas terror targets in Gaza,” without clarifying further...“in stark contrast to Hamas'... the IDF follows international law and takes feasible precautions to mitigate civilian harm.”..."Humanitarian efforts cannot be allowed to impact the mission to dismantle Hamas,"... the Israel Defense Forces has said that if people can't stand with Israel in its war against Hamas, there is something "very wrong" with their morals...Israel's far-right security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, has said there should be no guarantee of "continuous aid" to Gaza.' }}

{{update on the strikes near hospitals- 'Overnight there were 60 air strikes in this so-called safe area in Khan Younis, where Israel asked us to go. But the most intense air strikes were around Al-Quds hospital in Gaza City - where the director of the hospital, for the third time, received a call from Israeli intelligence asking them to evacuate the hospital.
He told me this morning they have 500 patients in the hospital. Another 1,500 people are sheltering in the hospital - they decided not to leave because he said there is no place to go. He said there were 10 strikes within 100 metres of his hospital.'- BBC }}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Interesting journalistic comparison. Heres how the BBC reported the press conference for the latest released hostages on their live feed as it happened-

'The 85-year-old said she had "been through hell" and suffered bruises while being kidnapped from her kibbutz in Israel on a motorbike...She described being hit by sticks on the journey, but said most of the hostages were being "treated well"...Sharone said after arriving into Gaza, her mother's captors said they "believe in the Quran" and therefore would not hurt her...Lifschitz herself went on to describe clean conditions and guards who took care of "every detail" - including women who knew about "feminine hygiene".. They were fed white cheese and cucumber - the same food as the captors... they slept on mattresses on the floor in the tunnels under Gaza, with a doctor coming to visit every two to three days. A captive who was badly injured in a motorbike accident on the way to Gaza was treated for his injuries. Lifschitz adds that a paramedic came to see them to bring the medicines they needed.'

And here is how FOX News reported the same conference and information on their live feed-

'Lifshitz said she was taken to Gaza on the back of a motorcycle and beaten by people inside the territory...She said her captives fed her only once a day.'

How did Fox get that from what she said at the press conference?!!}}

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ This has long since passed into the realms of being horrific on a scale I never thought, or feared I'd live to see, not being done by a supposed ally, a democracy and worse, supported and part funded by us. }}

'The Hamas-run ministry of health in Gaza has put out a statement on Telegram saying that hospitals in the Gaza Strip have "completely collapsed. We confirm that 12 hospitals and 32 health centers are out of service, and we fear that more will be out of service in the coming hours due to targeting and running out of fuel," the statement said.
It also warned that "hospital doors remaining open does not mean that they are providing service to the flood of wounded people".

'UNRWA director of communications Juliette Touma has warned that the aid organisation - which runs the largest humanitarian operation in Gaza - will have to stop operations tomorrow if there is no more fuel.
"Just in those shelters we have 600,000 people who have come seeking shelter. They need food, they need water, they need sanitation services. They need mattresses, they need protection."

Several people were sheltering in Abu Younis petrol station in the Gaza Strip when it was hit yesterday in Israeli air strikes. "The entire area was in fear even though it was supposed to be a safe zone."

The Hamas-run ministry of health in Gaza has issued an update, saying at least 5,791 people have been killed in Gaza since 7 October. That's an increase of more then 700 on the figure announced yesterday.- BBC

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ Israel is calling for the UN Se General to resign for his reamrks in his speech- heres what he said-

'Excellencies,
The situation in the Middle East is growing more dire by the hour.
The war in Gaza is raging and risks spiralling throughout the region.
Divisions are splintering societies. Tensions threaten to boil over.
At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles -- starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.
I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel.
Nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians – or the launching of rockets against civilian targets.
All hostages must be treated humanely and released immediately and without conditions.
I respectfully note the presence among us of members of their families.

Excellencies,
It is important to also recognize the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum.
The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation.
They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.
But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people.

Excellencies,
Even war has rules.
We must demand that all parties uphold and respect their obligations under international humanitarian law; take constant care in the conduct of military operations to spare civilians; and respect and protect hospitals and respect the inviolability of UN facilities which today are sheltering more than 600,000 Palestinians.
The relentless bombardment of Gaza by Israeli forces, the level of civilian casualties, and the wholesale destruction of neighborhoods continue to mount and are deeply alarming.
I mourn and honour the dozens of UN colleagues working for UNRWA – sadly, at least 35 and counting – killed in the bombardment of Gaza over the last two weeks.
I owe to their families my condemnation of these and many other similar killings.
The protection of civilians is paramount in any armed conflict.
Protecting civilians can never mean using them as human shields.
Protecting civilians does not mean ordering more than one million people to evacuate to the south, where there is no shelter, no food, no water, no medicine and no fuel, and then continuing to bomb the south itself.
I am deeply concerned about the clear violations of international humanitarian law that we are witnessing in Gaza.
Let me be clear: No party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law.

Excellencies,

Thankfully, some humanitarian relief is finally getting into Gaza.
But it is a drop of aid in an ocean of need.
In addition, our UN fuel supplies in Gaza will run out in a matter of days. That would be another disaster.
Without fuel, aid cannot be delivered, hospitals will not have power, and drinking water cannot be purified or even pumped.
The people of Gaza need continuous aid delivery at a level that corresponds to the enormous needs. That aid must be delivered without restrictions.
I salute our UN colleagues and humanitarian partners in Gaza working under hazardous conditions and risking their lives to provide aid to those in need. They are an inspiration.
To ease epic suffering, make the delivery of aid easier and safer, and facilitate the release of hostages, I reiterate my appeal for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.

Excellencies,
Even in this moment of grave and immediate danger, we cannot lose sight of the only realistic foundation for a true peace and stability: a two-State solution.
Israelis must see their legitimate needs for security materialized, and Palestinians must see their legitimate aspirations for an independent State realized, in line with United Nations resolutions, international law and previous agreements.
Finally, we must be clear on the principle of upholding human dignity.
Polarization and dehumanization are being fueled by a tsunami of disinformation.

We must stand up to the forces of antisemitism, anti-Muslim bigotry and all forms of hate.'

The Israeli response-

'The shocking speech by the UN Secretary-General at the Security Council meeting, while rockets are being fired at all of Israel, proved conclusively, beyond any doubt, that the Secretary-General is completely disconnected from the reality in our region and that he views the massacre committed by Nazi Hamas terrorists in a distorted and immoral manner.

His statement that, “the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum,” expressed an understanding for terrorism and murder. It’s really unfathomable. It’s truly sad that the head of an organization that arose after the Holocaust holds such horrible views. A tragedy!

The UN Secretary-General, who shows understanding for the campaign of mass murder of children, women, and the elderly, is not fit to lead the UN. There is no justification or point in talking to those who show understanding for the most terrible acts committed against the citizens of Israel — no less by a declared terrorist organisation".


Yes, it would be terrible to try to show understanding or human compassion for people caught in a terrible situation, or to show compassion towards all those innocents who had nothing to do with Hama's actions but are currently dead, broken in mind or body, or slowly starving to death as a result of Israel's brutality in response to it. }}

[halfwise]

Some background on how America is trying to restrain Israel.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-telling-israel-gaza-ground-100016768.html

[Pettytyrant101]

{{ well we are now at the point where Israel is openly targeting civilians and just throwing the 'they were secretly all Hamas' excuse out every time. Not content with bombing residential housing blocks, safe zones and refugee camps, today they took to targeting ambulances.

'at least 13 people were killed in the incident and blamed an Israeli air strike. In a statement, Hamas officials said Israeli forces targeted "a convoy of ambulances which was transporting the wounded" from Al-Shifa towards Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip.'

Israel's response?

'The IDF confirmed it had hit an ambulance, which it said was being used by Hamas operatives.'

Of course it was, all those children and women they've blown to bits, burnt to death or crushed the life form beneath the rubble of their own homes, all terrorists, especially the unborn children in pregnant women, got to get them before they attack Israel.
At this point I don't think there is a war crime Israel has not now committed- collective punishment check. Indiscriminate bombing of civilians check. Targeting UN and WHO facilities check. Instructing civilians to 'safe zones' then bombing the safe zones check. Bombing hospitals, ambulances and refugee camps check.

What we are watching is Israel's Final Solution for the Palestinian People. Worse we are not just watching, we are helping them do it. }}