Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Ahh yes, Ar-Pharazon the Golden, mightiest king of Numenor, at whose feet Sauron kneeled and gave obeisance.

What bizarre casting. This man would do better as a Hobbit (clean-shaven), then as a king.

One would expect some cheekbones in such a king. It could be they wanted someone who looked foolish, but then the whole thing doesn't really hang together. Like the blithering Denethor we were subjected to.

But I'm sure he had to do a screen test, so they must have seen something in the actor that suggested the part.

I think they cast him for the role that they wrote, not for the role that Tolkien wrote.

We shall see. I keep clinging to a receding hope that some good can still come of this thing.

Oh! New stuff. Trying to get more hype going.

"Tolkien's legacy must be kept alive".
What did she mean by this?

A much better editor for this clip. Smart enough to show the most epic shots, without ruining it with the insipid character dialogue we've heard so far. If this person had put together the earlier clips I'd actually be excited about the series by now.

Even with Galadriel's "1,000 years of hunting for Sauron" tripe?

that would be part of the insipid dialogue a smart editor would avoid.

{{ And a smart writer would not have adapted Galadriel at all as spending "1,000 years of hunting for Sauron" But it seems we dont have smart writers either }}

{{ So PJ has been talking about the Amazon thing, apperently 5 years ago they approached him to be involved, he, quite rightly, asked to see some scripts first and they said they weren't written yet but they would send them on soon as they were- then PJ heard nothing more from them.

So theres a bit of false outrage about Amazon snubbing PJ- but a little further digging shows a number of reasons- behind the scenes changes of Producer, the first being very pro-PJ onboard, the second not so, legal wranglings over rights and the need to be somewhat distinct from PJ's version (though how they can claim that and steal lock stock and barrel his Balrog design Im not sure, they sure seem to be trying to evoke PJ's films visually with the landscape shots) and the last reason, being the most interestng for its lack of explanation- the Tolkien Estate apparently did not want him onboard- perhaps even for them the TH films were a desicration too far.

But for me the most interesting part of what he said had nothing to do with Amazon- he was asked what he thought the legacy of his own films were to cinema, and I feel that his answer, the first thing that came to his mind, says all you need to know about how PJ priorities things in his films- }}

"If there was anything we gave to the ongoing community of film making its that we opened up the CGI bag of trick to have huge battle scenes."

Technically that WAS their major advance. Other than the obvious of being the first live action version of LotR (if you discount that wacky Russian flick) what else would you have him say? All I can think of is that it's now okay to adapt fantasy books. Before LotR all fantasy scripts were written directly for the screen.

{{ I would suggest, simiallar to yourself rehabilitating the genre as a serious story telling medium that could have broad mainstream appeal.
Similar in its day to the scifi classic Forbidden Planet I would also argue it advanced the cause of studio's treating the genre with some seriousness and the relevant financial backing that requires.
Thirdly that it argues against the use of CGI not for it, and shows the continued need for prosethic makeup and minatures supplimented with cgi.

I'd think of all those things before I'd think its greatest legacy was big CGI battles. But for me it does show where PJ's personal interests and enjoyment lie. Its why in the book the Mumakil are like islands in the battle as horses wont even go near them as is true of the real world and combat elephants - because Tolkien cared about realism and plausibility within his fantasy battles, and in the film PJ recreates the Battle of Hoth from Empire Strikes Back in a fantasy setting use horses as snow speeders and mumakil as AT-AT's.
They are at opposing poles. }}

PJ recreates the Battle of Hoth from Empire Strikes Back in a fantasy setting use horses as snow speeders and mumakil as AT-AT's.

Well thanks a lot.  Once you've seen the connection you can't bloody well unsee it.

{{ You hadn't noticed? - thought it on first watch, by time Id edited the bloody things for Purist edits I'd realised Pj even recreated shots from Empire, just following horses instead of snow speeders. Especially the Eowyn/Merry ride between the Mumakil legs shot- I was half expecting her to say "I got a little singed but I'm alright.". }}

{{ If you compare the two battles Halfy they are remarkabley similar in many ways- they start the same for example- first you hear the stomping sound of but dont really see the AT-ATs-



same as you hear the horns of the Haradrim before you see the Mumakil-



Then in Empire we see the At-At's through binoculars which zoom out to reveal a row of them-



In Pj's the camera moves to reveal a row of Mumakil-



Then we see the rebel soldiers lining up in a row ready for battle in their trenches-



And we see the Rohirrim 'reform the line' and lineup in a row ready for the battle on their horses-



And of course there is an enemy commander solely singled out to hate on (and I do wonder if the metal spoked shape behind the SW commander, and the spoked banner behind the Haradrim is a nod to the Hoth origins)-





And as well as the similar camera shots following horses/snow speders and going between the legs ect there  are a lot of similar low angles and stomping feet-





PJ even manages to sneak in a couple of very similar aerial views-





We shouldnt be surprised, in first two films he 'borrowed' liberally from Bakshi in structure, so that his battle here is structurally similar to Hoth is just more of his 'borrowing'.

Dont get me wrong, its a great action scene, technically brilliant and spectacular looking, expertly directed and the sound scape for it is top notch, but its also ludicrous, stupid, implausible and over the top spectacle, it belongs where it began, in a SW film not in a Tolkien battle.}}

About that Balrog, its exactly the same design. Is that not copyright, or is it copyright for Weta or whoever made the design?

{{ if its not some backroom deal Figg I can only speculate that perhaps the design belongs to Lee as an artist, perhaps it predates his involvement with the films, and as he is on board for this version they can use it. But thats a guess. }}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ So PJ has been talking about the Amazon thing, apperently 5 years ago they approached him to be involved, he, quite rightly, asked to see some scripts first and they said they weren't written yet but they would send them on soon as they were- then PJ heard nothing more from them.

So theres a bit of false outrage about Amazon snubbing PJ- but a little further digging shows a number of reasons- behind the scenes changes of Producer, the first being very pro-PJ onboard, the second not so, legal wranglings over rights and the need to be somewhat distinct from PJ's version (though how they can claim that and steal lock stock and barrel his Balrog design Im not sure, they sure seem to be trying to evoke PJ's films visually with the landscape shots) and the last reason, being the most interestng for its lack of explanation- the Tolkien Estate apparently did not want him onboard- perhaps even for them the TH films were a desicration too far.

I can appreciate a desire to get away from Jackson's vision.

Perhaps the copying of the Balrog design has something to do with Howe or Lee being involved in this new production? I don't know if that makes sense, but did Howe paint or sketch that Balrog before the LotR movies?

I don't trust the Tolkien Estate one whit, especially when large sums of money are involved. Heck, Christopher's first son, Simon Tolkien, has said that he thought Jackson hove too closely to the books, and wished that he had told more of his own story.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{
We shouldnt be surprised, in first two films he 'borrowed' liberally from Bakshi in structure, so that his battle here is structurally similar to Hoth is just more of his 'borrowing'.

Dont get me wrong, its a great action scene, technically brilliant and spectacular looking, expertly directed and the sound scape for it is top notch, but its also ludicrous, stupid, implausible and over the top spectacle, it belongs where it began, in a SW film not in a Tolkien battle.}}

Well it was a Jackson Battle at the end of the day.

Filmmakers copy and mimic and steal from older movies; it's simply how it's done!

I wonder who Tom Budge played before he left the production?
One of the elves, surely?

Well it was a Jackson Battle at the end of the day. - Forest

{{ Thats one of my main issues with his films, particularly as they progress they become less and less adaptations of Tolkien and more and more PJ. And the sensibilities of the two could not be further apart. So you start with some pretty decent for the most part world building in the first film, doing a reasonable job of following the books ability to create a realistic, believable grounded setting- even going to the extent of planting the Shire up the year before production to get the lived in look, and it ends on a cgi Denethor running a mile on fire to throw himself from the pinnacle of Minas Tirith and a cgi Legolas running about over a Mumakil. From Tolkien to PJ in one fell and unpleasant swoop. }}

I read a salient post yesterday that said that all this commentary on the Amazon show, specifically the negative, has the unintended effect of associating the name of Tolkien with social division instead of with his work.
Caught up in the meat-grinder of a modern "progressive" adaptation, it is now become yet another bone to worry at and argue over. That's what I dislike the most about the Amazon show: its divisiveness. Damn these cultural twistings and shiftings that so alienate some people from the past.

Case in point, but funny video Petty