Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Hold up. Galadriel is the commander of the northern armies? What means this.

Both a stretch and not. She was high up in Eregion, so after Sauron took out Celebrimbor one can see her having a key role. But then again, she's Galadriel. Her power wouldn't be in swinging a sword. This is as bad as Xena Arwen.

{{ The creators have responded to people (like some of us presumably) complaining about the diversity being shoved into Tolken.

'The series creators have no qualms about diversifying the world of Middle-earth. “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like,” said executive producer Lindsey Weber. “Tolkien is for everyone. His stories are about his fictional races doing their best work when they leave the isolation of their own cultures and come together.”- Complex

Problem is they are reflecting  'what the world actually looks like' today. Not the world as described by Tolkien. And they are supposed to be adapting the Tolkien world not our world. Not painfully shoe-horning our present day world or its concerns into Tolkiens.

And if the aim is to demonsatrate in Tolkien how different races can come together for a greater good, then it makes even less sense if there are already black elves, dwarves, hobbits, men all intermixed to start with, you lessen the message of different races coming together. Had they used the complex relationship, personal and political between Numenor, then Gondor with Umbar and Harad, then yes, if they'd used Khamul as a window into the Easterlings and how that relates to Sauron's long term plans and the arrival and intervention of the Blue Wizards into those lands to explore their culture, then all good.
But every race already being mixed is just weird, doesn't make geographical. cultural or linguist sense in the world of Tolkien, and worse undermines the very reason they claim justifies it existing in the first place.

I find it all a pathetic justification.}}

I discussed this before as the Shakespearization of Tolkien. It's a push-pull between universality and a sense of reality. Both have advantages, but you have to give up some of one for the other. Everyone on this forum is white, so we will naturally mourn the loss of reality more than the loss of universality which doesn't really pertain to us.

Far as I'm concerned they've already destroyed the reality by their other silly choices, so the non-Tolkien multi-racial cast has ceased to be a stumbling block for me.

{{ My issue with it is not that it is diverse or multicultural, the world Tolkien gave them is already multi-cultured.

What they are doing is cheap, lazy, easy way to shove diversity into the world at the expense of suspension of disbelief. Especially to a Tolkien fan who has any grasp of the delicate work Tolkien put into thinking about how people and language migrated and moved and how cultures developed as a result.

Tolkien said he preferred history, real or feigned. The ME he gives us taken over its whole history is as complex historically as our own. In later life Tolkien believed the Blue Wizards largely succeeded in their mission to the East, which is why there were far fewer in number for the final battle than otherwise would have been from the East. By definition that means good people in the East, fighting the corrupting influence of Sauron. If you have to make tales up tell us theirs, they have Khamul the Easterling, a ring-bearer in a series about the rings to use! It would still fit Tolkiens world yet not directly alter the main West's story and still allow for showing Easterling culture and make a comparison with its corruption under Sauron and white Numenors arguably worse corruption under Sauron.

We know there were marriages and political alliances and fall outs, and wars and peace with Numenor and Harad and Umbar. Its complex. Theres a ton of material to draw on for inspiration there.

The writers were gifted a world in which you could interweave current social and political anxieties and raise questions, about race, about empire, about state building, about political and personal corruption, about moral values, about individualism versus collectivism because its history, feigned as it is, is as rich as our own so allows for many viewpoints, but all within the world as presented.

Just making hobbits, elves, dwarves and everyone else mixed race does none of that. It's tedious writing, it lazy, its for show and saying look how diverse we are with no care to the work they are supposed to be adapting. And in this case its worse as its so unnecessary given the potential already there for diversity and exploration of race in an intelligent and thoughtful manner. }}

Yes they would have done much better to go the true multicultural route.  But they've mucked with enough other things that I consider it the least of their sins.  If they had worked harder to make the timeline work they probably would have needed to fill gaps in the narrative, and exploring different lands would have been a useful tool.  But instead they decided to take who and what was available and squeeze it all together, forcing characters into incompatible roles to make it all fit.  It will feel more like a disneyland ride than history.

I think they will have sacrificed both reality and universality by the time they're done.

on another note, TORN is not all nodding bobble heads. Here is a thread where they look at what Amazon did to Wheel of Time and draw foreboding conclusions for the Rings of Power.

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=985984;sb=post_time;so=DESC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;guest=272192151

{{ It is annoying when they use a phrase like "what the world really looks like". Tolkien was essentially envisioning a late Bronze age/early Iron age world. In the real world of that time period if you wanted to find blonde Rohirrim types you went to Scandinavia, if you wanted red headed people, Scotland, Wales and Ireland, white browned haired types? England. If you wanted to meet olived skinned, dark haired folk, got to the Med, folk with more narrow eyes? Travel east. Brown and black skinned, go south into North Africa.

That was the real world.
The one Tolkien effectively replicates for all his locations. It is North Europe. It's based already in the real world, one at least appropriate to its setting and themes.

The real world they speak of is the contemporary world, Tolkien could not have conceived of our world in his life time, it therefore has no place in his world. But the universal troubles our real world struggles with do have room within Tolkiens world to explore, because they are universal to all humans.

Just lifting our current worries and occupations and transplanting them into Tolkiens doesn't make it more universal, but less so. The tales were already universal because they felt as if their world was real, their history actual and believable, and their themes broad and about life, death, friendship, truth, wisdom, and failing, corruption, temptation, what it means to be alive and the choices we make. All the oldest themes going all the way back to the very first written tale, Gilgamesh.

This series will be dated in a generation when current preoccupations will seem already dated, the very universality that has meant Tolkien has survived and flourished to this day they are undermining. }}

I think their argument is disingenuous in the extreme. Its double speak to justify the fact they have caved in to Twitter, and specifically BLM. What they have done is use real world political activism and shoehorned it into Tolkien. Tolkien's themes were universal, but using multi-racial people is just cheap and lazy sign posting, its virtue signalling, it tries to cut the moaners on twitter off at the pass. The Twitterati will however find something else to be offended about, its probably having no LGBTQ characters next up on the list. Talking of which I had to explain to Mr Figg what all the fuss was about Adele admitting that she liked being a woman at the Brit awards. he couldn't believe that just saying the word 'woman' had caused a massive stink. Neither can I really.

{{ Apparently these two-



are a single mother and her forbidden love for a black elf. Its ME not a day time soap opera. }}

Questionable cliches there...

None of this really matters to the people in charge. They want to cast dark-skinned dwarves and elves and hobbits because changing something that is all-white to something that is of many colours is an absolute good. FULL. STOP.
And if you oppose that for any reason then you're just as wrong as the people who enjoy being full-on racist about some of these casting choices.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ Apparently these two-



are a single mother and her forbidden love for a black elf. Its  ME not a day time soap opera. }}

This is Eastenders with cosplay Elf ears.

"eer you're one of them Elves from dahn sarf innit? me mam sez that Elves are no good wideboys"

"Nah mate, I am just chillin in your hood and I fink you human chicks are easy innit, you get me"

"wot you sayin? I'll give you a clip round your pointy lughole if you dont watchit, the bloody cheek!"

I think you've captured the gist of at least one of their conversations.

That...would actually be worth watching.

{{ Fellow, drunken, crabbit Scot The Critical Drinker points out the obvious, but our crabbit instincts align perfectly in their arguments, but as stating the obvious needs said repeatedly to Amazon it appears here's his crabbit version of things. }}

"of course the internet being what it is, a measured, intelligent and thoughtful discussion was had by all. "



I thought one of his best points was (somewhat paraphrased) "People don't read Lord of the Rings because they yearn for the world of today, with all its politics and grievances..." and I don't even need to finish that thought.

What he said makes perfect sense and I think there is going to be a massive backlash.

Looks good.

{{ From the money spent it was always going to look good. I do see Legolas style elf stunts however, and heavy cgi. But its the content is the real concern, that it would look the part I dont think was ever really in question. Style wise they seem to be trying to ape Pj's style.}}

Watched it 4 times now and got goosebumps.
I no it's not going to follow Tolkien to the letter , but these
are my kind of shows and I no I'm going to enjoy them. (I hope )

I never watch anything except the last 15 minutes of the superrbowl.  Instead I wandered down to a fairly new jazz bar in the neighborhood because I knew the musicians would need some company.  Sure enough I was the only one there.  Had a nice discussion with the vibraphone player during their break, and 4 others wandered in so I figured I had done my good deed for the night and came home to see if the trailer had been posted.  Thanks Petty!

My take: I get absolutely nothing Tolkien related from this.  Could be any damn fantasy whatsoever.  So much for fan service.  I'll watch it and hope, but it's not gonna scratch that itch for seeing some lore brought to life.  This looks more like the friggin' Neverending Story than Tolkien. Doesn't even look like PJ to me.

I was more reminded of the Witcher series than Tolkien.

Does that Hobbity person have small ears and antlers on her head? I would assume twigs and a bow thingy, if not for the people with huge elk antlers on their backs.

Yeah no I don't understand the Jackson connections. Neither the music, nor the costumes remind me of Jackson.

My thoughts!!

We open with... A voice-over by a young girl. Hm yes, feminine-centric storytelling. Reminds one of fantasy series like the Abhorsen trilogy or the recent Star Wars sequels.
Her lines: "Haven't you ever wondered? What else is out there? There's [sic] wonders in this world beyond our wanderin'. I can feel it."
Kinda.. West Country with that "wanderin'", no? Apologies I am not British and don't fully understand the nuances of the regional accents. But giving hobbits rustic accents and saving the Received English for the elves and men of Westernesse is a no-brainer choice.
So we open with a hobbit talking about how she senses the presence of wonders in the world beyond her tribe or group's wanderings. This reminds me of how one of the lesser men of Middle-earth may have felt right before meeting the Numenoreans for the first time. The presence of hobbits is kinda dumb, but Middle-earth without hobbits would smack the film-only normies as heresy.

The harbour is pleasant. Numenor, unless I am quite mistaken. Had to look it up: Meneltarma, that would be the mountain in the background if so.
I am stupid. What is the significance of the sun symbol?
I like the Argonaith-like statue at the back of the harbour.
The architecture reminds me of Minas Tirith, certainly. But there is none of the iconic black stone of Orthanc or the outer wall (or Othram) of Minas Anor. I doubt we shall see any of the black stone in the whole series, as Jackson showed Minas Tirith as made entirely of white-stone, and film-fans understand Orthanc as a place of evil rather than a relic of the power of Numenor.
Is this Eldalonde on the western side of the island? (I can't do umlauts on my keyboard for that final E) There are many bridges in the back of the harbour, but I don't really see a river emptying into it. Oh no never mind, this must be Romenna on the eastern side. The greatest seaport.

In the next shot we see the moose-antler-bearing pair that we saw in a picture earlier. The giant size of the antlers makes more sense now. These are hobbits!
They are gathering the antlers to use the bone for tools and weapons, presumably. You'd think they would be carrying the antlers points-down, as balancing them points-up would be very difficult on their backs like that. Surely these are not decorative?
The rocky terrain around them looks a hell of a lot like Jackson-Rohan, with the green valley clearly a CGI addition. Interestingly there is some kind of arch in the top left of the screen: a strange piece of terrain to include. Oh and a plain and mountains in the distance. The Misty Mountains?

The opening synth and drums swell as an dirty little waif with crap in her hair looks hopefully upwards. There's a crude lantern in the background. I mean honestly right here is a pretty perfect representation of a "Harfoot". Scruffy little river-hobbits with tanner skin. If the show kept all the hobbits to this shade and appearance.... well that would be nice.
So yeah I'm gonna say this dry and rocky landscape must be to the east of the Misty Mountains in the Anduin Vale. It doesn't look to me like the Anduin Vale, with all that dead grass. But whatever.

Text on the screen: "Before the King". Elessar II? That King? A wide shot of an incredibly-large waterfall. Sure looks a lot like the far north of Middle-earth. Surely that is meant to be part of the Ice-bay in the background, up in Forochel?
And who is climbing up here?? Why Galadriel of course!
Now, wasn't she amongst those with Fingolfin who crossed the Helcaraxe in the first age? But by the Second Age it was gone, so what is she doing up there unless this is some really weird flash-back.
Really weird, I say, because she's doing fucking ice-climbing in chainmail wearing fucking plate-gauntlets and CLIMBING USING A SINGLE DAGGER as her ONLY SUPPORT during FREE SOLOING ON ICE.

Hey, you know what's really good for ice-climbing?!? Two of these:

And two of these:

And a lot of this shit:


You know what's absolute dog-shit for ice-climbing? One of these:

These:

And, based on the rest of her gear, presumably these:


And it's not just that she has terrible gear on for the job, but she's making side-ways dynos to a position with no holds, depending on stabbing her dagger into ice as her only support. Oh she has her feet on something, you say. No. She doesn't. You can see down the cliff past her chest. She is hanging from a dagger.
And she is wearing sabatons by the way. You can see them during the jump.
And it's not even like the jump looks good either. When she leaps we can't see where she's coming from, and when the dagger sticks in her body instantly stops moving.
You know how if you run and grab on to a rope dangling down from a tree branch? Well if you did that and when you grabbed on to the rope the rope didn't move at all, that's what's happening with her body on the cliff-face here. The side-ways momentum just stops, doesn't carry through her sticking point. Her body is defying physics.

There are other climbers on the cliff below her. Presumably also rope-less fools in medieval plate.


Text on the screen: "Before the Fellowship". I'm expecting a "Before the Towers" to complete the cycle.

A raft caught in a terrible storm. And then a man on that raft in much calmer water. I guess the storm died down.

Next we see our dark-skinned elf (erm, black elf, not a Drow) in the woods, catching an arrow and shooting it back. I cannot tell if the arrows are orcish-looking. But his quiver-full certainly reminds me of Legolas'. He's using a... what do you call it. It's a reversed grip on the string. Probably trying to make him look fancier for the audience. It stinks of that Danish twit, Lars Anderson, and his arrow-catching antics from several years ago.
That being said, if anyone is going to move their arm as fast as an arrow and catch it (the elf in question is following the trajectory of the arrow, matching its speed with his hand when he catches it), then it should be an elf.

That's all I can do for now. More tomorrow.