All New Who
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:54 pm
yep I hope that RTD can push the reset button and do things well, no matter if he strays occasionally into real world stuff if its done well nobody cares. If he tells a fascinating well written story that's the important bit. The thing I want most is to be eagerly waiting for the episode to start. Like I used to, and probably in reality last felt when Donna was companion. and that was a long long time ago.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:54 pm
{{ Amarie I am sort of surprised Chibbers hasnt brought River back, youd think having the first female Doctor and her wife would be rigth up his political alleyway. But then maybe he knows he cant write River, and going on his character dialogue so far I'd be inclined to agree. So I am kind of glad he didnt bringher back as he'd probably have ruined the character.
Figg I was eagerly awaiting every episode up to the end of the Capaldi era, with that era in particular in my view having not only the best Doctor of the modern era (and best actor in the role possibly ever) but the best character arc for the Doctor of the new era, and some of the best episodes of the modern era, by a good bit. }}
Figg I was eagerly awaiting every episode up to the end of the Capaldi era, with that era in particular in my view having not only the best Doctor of the modern era (and best actor in the role possibly ever) but the best character arc for the Doctor of the new era, and some of the best episodes of the modern era, by a good bit. }}
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:26 pm
{{ Well we have an airtime for the new series- itll broadcast on Sunday the 31st of this month at 6.20pm. Ep1 is called The Halloween Apocalypse.
Theyve released a still featuring
Theyve released a still featuring
- Spoiler:
- the cut down Chewbacca alike character that seems to be in it. Not sure about the look, lot will depend how it looks and moves on screen
but its still a vast improvement over whatever the hell that character in Orphan 55 was supposed to be. Though thats not saying much. }}
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:58 pm
13 also had a rant about absent fathers or something, so I think it's Chibbers not paying much interested to what has happened before.
@spoiler Um, it's progress I guess?
@spoiler Um, it's progress I guess?
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:21 am
{{ Father bashing and the like Amarie is exactly what I'm hopeful wont be in the series. I really am hoping Chibnal is just going to tell a good Who story for the first time.
Some things give me hope- that it is one six part story, which I think will play to Chibnal's style better (it cant possibly be worse after all surely?) it should by its nature of being one story with one main writer be more consistent, hopefully we will finally get a settled version of this Doctor and not one who changes week to week as the plot requires. Same for Yaz and the new companion.
Things I fear- that 13 will still have a lack of agency in her own stories, that the dialogue will still be full of tell dont show and massive exposition dumps. That the heavy handed social/political lecturing will return and they've just wisely kept it out the trailer this time. That there still won't be a real Doctor character study with stuff for Jodie to actualy get her acting teeth into, arguably the biggest event to happen to this Doctor from a character stand point was the revelation of her past as the Timeless Child, and Jodie spent that standing stilll in one place being being given a power-point lecture by the Master for twenty minutes and no dialogue of note. She needs more than that to do.
Things I think Chibnal has to do- sort out the Timeless Child plot in a way that's less offensive to lore, especially do something and give some sort of explanation for the Ruth Doctor and why she has a police box shaped TARDIS and where she fits in- as it stands her use in the narrative so far is every bad notion of token black female character.
Wrap up everything, he needs to leave RTD as clean a slate as possible, as clean as Moffat left for Chibnal coming in, with all Chibnal era characters and issues resolved and finished, including the Timeless Child plot. }}
Some things give me hope- that it is one six part story, which I think will play to Chibnal's style better (it cant possibly be worse after all surely?) it should by its nature of being one story with one main writer be more consistent, hopefully we will finally get a settled version of this Doctor and not one who changes week to week as the plot requires. Same for Yaz and the new companion.
Things I fear- that 13 will still have a lack of agency in her own stories, that the dialogue will still be full of tell dont show and massive exposition dumps. That the heavy handed social/political lecturing will return and they've just wisely kept it out the trailer this time. That there still won't be a real Doctor character study with stuff for Jodie to actualy get her acting teeth into, arguably the biggest event to happen to this Doctor from a character stand point was the revelation of her past as the Timeless Child, and Jodie spent that standing stilll in one place being being given a power-point lecture by the Master for twenty minutes and no dialogue of note. She needs more than that to do.
Things I think Chibnal has to do- sort out the Timeless Child plot in a way that's less offensive to lore, especially do something and give some sort of explanation for the Ruth Doctor and why she has a police box shaped TARDIS and where she fits in- as it stands her use in the narrative so far is every bad notion of token black female character.
Wrap up everything, he needs to leave RTD as clean a slate as possible, as clean as Moffat left for Chibnal coming in, with all Chibnal era characters and issues resolved and finished, including the Timeless Child plot. }}
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:57 pm
Regardless of how Chibbers leaves things, I hope RTD just wipes the slate clean and conveniently forgets everything Chibbers has done. So back to a male Doctor, sci-fi stories and no more shoehorning identity politics every 5 minutes. This is not 'Its a sin' its Who.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 31, 2021 3:04 pm
{{ Well only few hours to go before the final series of this era begins. Will it save the era? Will it just be any good? We'll get a better idea very soon. }}
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how odd.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:13 pm
- Spoiler:
- {{ Well when this started I was worried. The pre-credits effects extravaganza immediately felt derivative of the similar cold opening to a 12/Clara episode but with a way bigger budget, dropping us mid adventure with them captured and in peril whilst exchanging jokey banter.
The difference here however was that the 12 version wasn't directly related to the episode plot. This was which meant between the jokes was a lot of exposition about what was going on up to this point of capture. Which felt unnatural as both Yaz and the Doctor of course already know what happened, and made me worried we were going to get yet more exposition heavy story telling.
Fortunately however the bulk of the exposition was kept to this pre-credit sequence and a few slightly better woven into the narrative dumps later on. And the opening itself was largely irrelevant, being simply a big eye popping opening rather than serving any narrative purpose than to say the Doctor is chasing this guy down, which could have been conveyed in a much quicker simpler way. But the main intention was spectacle.
The plot is convoluted and still very much in the set up stages so I will assume you watched it and not go over it. There were moments of it however which on the surface did not seem to make much sense- the Flux cloud thing destroys everything at the atomic level, so why would the dog people ships forming a shield make any difference to it?
Speaking of the dog people, or the main one in the episode, the dog makeup is good but not quite perfect, but the actor beneath is giving an excellent likeable performance under it which helps a lot. However the reveal they are rescuing humans and the play on dog being man's best friend whilst fine seems in contradiction of him trying to kill the Doctor and Yaz and then later when they have Dan, the new companion in tow he again tries to kill all three even tough they are there to rescue humans.
Those aside however the new additions to the cast are all very good. Bishop is likeable as down to earth working class Liverpudlian Dan ( a bit of a cliché mind you would be nice sometimes to see someone from Liverpool who isn't on the dole and with empty food cupboards, but it was a better way of commenting on Boris Tory Britain of today than previous series efforts at making political comment, so its at least better in that regard).
The mysterious bad guys are again well played and performed which is about all can be said at this point in the story, but the main villain has the necessary evil charisma for the role.
The Weeping Angels brief reintroduction was also nicely done, playing on the speed of their movement when you blink to good effect.
The Sontarans looked fine, but were really just set up here so there's little to say.
The plot hints towards the Division and the Doctor's forgotten past, so we can assume the resolution one way or other to the Timeless Child arc is going to be the main thread of this six part story.
Yaz has essentially had an off-screen reboot. She is more confident, way more technically able, and has clearly had a lot of off-screen adventures which are hinted at but not seen. And that's kind of the problem with Yaz, its a pity we never saw all this character development, we are just presented with the finished article here. But it does mean she is a lot better as a companion, and the lack of the other two give her and the Doctor actual screen time together and proper conversations that aren't just Yaz agreeing or being talked at by a babbling Doctor. She finally after three years even calls the Doctor out. It at times does feel a bit forced simply because its unearned on screen, but its still a lot better.
And on the Doctor, Jodie's 13 still babbles, but its finally more contained, and slightly more relevant to what's going on. The directing and editing of this episode also helped and the timing of dialogue and the character back and forth and the landing of the humour seemed much better timed.
Not without some worries, still a reliance on conveying what's going on through exposition instead of showing, and some loose plotting, and a lot of threads only time will tell on, so much depends on where it goes, but it was a decent and confident start and a big improvement over anything in Chibnal's first two series. }}
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Sun Oct 31, 2021 8:30 pm
I was engaged throughout the episode which is a big change from normal. I was pleasantly surprised. Although none of it seemed new and fresh. I like the new guy.
- Spoiler:
- I did find the latex makeup on the baddie quite ridiculous because his eyes were obviously human and you could see where they had started to stick the plastic down on his face. So not very scary at all. As for his 'sister' that looked like she had gone to Claire's Accessories and was set loose in the glitter and plastic jewels department, very silly. I like the new guy Dan, he made a good debut. Why the dog guy has a Northern accent though. But maybe the dog planet has a North. I did like the food bank intro, and the time traveller girl is intresting. There was too much harking back to other episodes, Weeping Angels was a bit of a yawn as was the Sontarians, would liked to see new stuff. But all in all watchable.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:40 am
{{
Im going to give this one a 7. Its an improvement but on its own its to little and to much set up to score higher. }}
- Spoiler:
- The effects overall were hit and miss, but I dont really mind that, Who has always aimed higher than it can afford in every era, I'll put up with wonky visuals every so often if the characters and story are strong.
I wouldnt go as far as saying this was strong, there was so much set up in it that there wasnt really a solid central plot to it- was basically just Doctor chases dog guy down, asks about Division and doesnt get any answers, meets Dan and we see what the Flux is doing destroying the universe and heres loadsof tease threads for the rest of the series.
One of the problems of this episode is so much of it is not directly relevant to the rest of it, its just setting up a lot of characters and plot for later. It was fine in doing so but not going to be an episode with a huge deal of rewatchability unless you plan on watching all six every time. Which is one down side to it being one complete story.
I also thought they laid it on a bit thick with Dan at times, working class, on the dole, volunteers at a food bank but self sacrifces not taking any food for himself despite having none, disabled girlfriend. Maybe one or other of those things would have been enough to get across normal bloke with big heart but all of them seemed almost comical at times. A caricature of the working class as stolid, dependable, well natured, down to earth, non-judgmental, generous of heart and deed, not unlike the 'honest Tommy' of WW2 propoganda.
It at times felt like a middle-class socialists idealised view of the working class.
The dialogue likewise was hit and miss, it felt somewhat forced to me between Doctor and Yaz, like Chibnal was trying to mimic a mix of RTD and Moffat era jokey banter, but he lacks the same comic instinct as they had. And the exposition dumps are still there if less so and Jodie still has a habit of hurtling them out at breakneck speed. So much so that the precredit sequence exposition dump bringing the viewer up to speed was sometimes all but lost between the fast paced back and forth with Yaz and the non-stop visual noise on screen throughout it.
This story is also continuity heavy, more so than NUWHo has ever been. It requires knowing the previous set up and the Timeless Child and the Division to make some sense of it so any part of the audience that decided to jump back on for Jodies final series may well find themselves without a clue as to what is supposed to be going on, especially given there is a delibrate element of that even for those who are up to date on the story line.
Oh and the other new character, the guy who was out on the outpost observation station on his own, all I could think was he was a knock off Dave Lister from Red Dwarf. Wonder if his look is meant to be a nod.
But lot to follow up on this- 5 episodes left to find out who the Swarm is, what the Flux is, what the Division is up to and who skull face folk are and how they are connected to the Doctors past, and presumably also resolve what has happened on Gallifrey and the Master from last series, the TARDIS apparently being sick and going wonky, where the Ruth Doctor fits in, what the Sontarans are doing in it and the Weeping Angels. And Ive still probably forgotten bits. Thats a lot to tie together into somethng satisfying. Lets see if Chibbers can pull it off.
Im going to give this one a 7. Its an improvement but on its own its to little and to much set up to score higher. }}
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Mon Nov 01, 2021 11:30 am
- Spoiler:
- Bingo! Dave Lister, just what I thought too.
It was like Chibbers was picking and mixing from everyone. He was taking the working class family stuff from RTD but doing it without any life to it, the food bank stuff, while topical, was heavy handed and bland, it could have really done with a sad-eyed old Wilf character to make it zing and show Dan giving the old man his last tin of soup, therefore going hungry himself, therfore adding heart to his character. That would have given his character a background. Chibbers also took some of the best bits from Moffat, Weeping Angels and timey-wimey stuff. It was a hodge-podge of other peoples best bits, with Dave Lister thrown into the mix. But all in all I watched it and I liked it ,which is real progress for me because I nearly didn't bother. Still not great, but ok.
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Re: All New Who
by Forest Shepherd Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:21 pm
Oh shoot is there new Who? Had no idea it was now.
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Re: All New Who
by malickfan Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:21 pm
wow, figgs and petty both enjoyed a chibnall episode? it must be a big improvement...?
I was out on saturday and missed the episode, I don't think my family watched it either (though my girlfriend wants to do a New Who marathon at some point soon so I assume I'll catch up eventually), but I'm certainly glad to hear it's a promising season start, intrigued to see how Chibnall ties everything together in just six episodes, serial storytelling plays to his strengths as a writer and the format refresh could prove a sucessful way to stabilizing viewing figures.
On the other hand I wonder if a heavily serialised miniseries is a good idea for Jodie's final full season? Could it prove a bit confusing for casual viewers to follow?
Whatever happens I'll still refuse to consider the Timeless Child idea canon, Hartnell will always remain the 1st Doctor to me.
I was out on saturday and missed the episode, I don't think my family watched it either (though my girlfriend wants to do a New Who marathon at some point soon so I assume I'll catch up eventually), but I'm certainly glad to hear it's a promising season start, intrigued to see how Chibnall ties everything together in just six episodes, serial storytelling plays to his strengths as a writer and the format refresh could prove a sucessful way to stabilizing viewing figures.
On the other hand I wonder if a heavily serialised miniseries is a good idea for Jodie's final full season? Could it prove a bit confusing for casual viewers to follow?
Whatever happens I'll still refuse to consider the Timeless Child idea canon, Hartnell will always remain the 1st Doctor to me.
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Re: All New Who
by malickfan Wed Nov 03, 2021 9:33 pm
https://www.doctorwhonews.net/2021/11/the_halloween_apocalypse_appreciation_index.html
The Appreciation Index or AI is a measure of how much the audience enjoyed the programme. The score, out of a hundred, is compiled by a specially selected panel of around 5,000 people who go online and rate and comment on programmes.
The previous series opener, Spyfall: Part One (New Year's Day 2020) achieved a score of 82, whilst the most recent episode, New Year's Day adventure Revolution of the Daleks, achieved a score of 79. The thirteenth Doctor's era as a whole has a a current average score of 80.
The score of 76 is the lowest achieved for the series since Love & Monsters in 2006, and The End Of The World, the first story to be recorded under the current AI system after the series return in 2005.
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The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:26 am
{{ Im not surprised the Ai is low. I am surprised it was quite that low.
I rewatched the episode, and its worse 2nd time round and I can easily see how its not an episode for folk to tune back into and start watching again. An awful lot of the epiosde has nothing to do with this episodes story, its just set up for later, and what there is of this epiosde is only about half the runtime and is confused and messy.
Just to note, there have been 10 episodes of NuWho which have failed to score the magic 80 or higher the BBC expects of its drama programming. 2 of those episodes were in the RTD era over 4 series plus several specials = 2 out of 60 episodes, 1 in Moffat over 5 series and specials = 1 out of 83 episodes, and Chibnal now has 7 of the ten worst rated AI episodes in NuWho. And he's managed that in only 3 of the shortest series in NuWho. 7 out of 23 episodes to date. Almost a third of his entire Who output has failed to make the BBC's own internal grade for a pass.}}
I rewatched the episode, and its worse 2nd time round and I can easily see how its not an episode for folk to tune back into and start watching again. An awful lot of the epiosde has nothing to do with this episodes story, its just set up for later, and what there is of this epiosde is only about half the runtime and is confused and messy.
- Spoiler:
Having seen it twice there are parts I dont get whats supposed to be happening still. Events are poorly explained, or not at all, things happen but without the narrative seeming to know what to tell the viewer. For example the Doctor gives dog people a particular pattern to form their ships into, this seems to in someway stop the Flux from destroying earth. But why or how is never explained, its never really explained if the Doctor did something clever with the shape of the ship formation or if it was clever why was it clever, what did it do? or if she just gave them the order to form up and protect earth. If the dog folk can protect the planet from the Flux why were they embarking on a ridiculous rescue mission to take every human off the planet? How can the Flux destroy entire solar systems by just sweeping through it but not the dog folks ships anyway?
And thats all kind of central to following the plot of this episode and how the Doctor saves the day, yet it doesnt make much sense and isnt explained well either, or at all. It all just sort of happens. And the rest of the episode is dislocated scenes setting up stuff that doesnt make sense yet, there's seven mystery box plots going on at once here- the Flux, the skull faced folk, the Sontarans, the Weeping Angels, the guy in the tunnels, the Division and the Timeless Child.
And we know from promo stuff he is throwing the Cybermen at this and almost certainly the Master too.
This episode is crammed with stuff that not only has no payoff yet, but has no clarity as to were any of it fits or relates to each other. And the actual story being told- dog people come to take humans, one captures and takes Dan, the Doctor is chasing same dog alien for information about the Divsion, doesnt get it but they rescue Dan, is really very basic and threadbare. And its all told in a messy manner to disguise how thin it actually is.
So I can see why it scored low in the AI's.
It will be interesting going ahead to see how things fair. It got 4.4 million on overnights, which is lowest series opener ever, but in current tv viewing figures its probably still in the top ten and close to the top for drama.
Traditionally though viewing figures for Who drop over a series, then rise agin towards the finale. Under Chibnal thats hasnt been happening, theyve opened well, then declined all the way to series end. If that happens again its not going to be pretty as its starting this time from a series low for an opener. If it follows the usual pattern we could be looking at figures of between 2.5-3 million by series end. And that will be the test of if doing it all one long story pays off or not- will folk stick with it and buck recent trends in drop off over a series or even pick up viewers back towards the 5 million mark, or will it plummet even worse than ever?
Just to note, there have been 10 episodes of NuWho which have failed to score the magic 80 or higher the BBC expects of its drama programming. 2 of those episodes were in the RTD era over 4 series plus several specials = 2 out of 60 episodes, 1 in Moffat over 5 series and specials = 1 out of 83 episodes, and Chibnal now has 7 of the ten worst rated AI episodes in NuWho. And he's managed that in only 3 of the shortest series in NuWho. 7 out of 23 episodes to date. Almost a third of his entire Who output has failed to make the BBC's own internal grade for a pass.}}
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:53 pm
I think you are right Petty, a second viewing wouldn't be so positive. it is very messy and disjointed and the impression it left me seems to revolve around a lot of running and shouting. I guess I enjoyed it because it wasn't bad, it was better than my expectations, my expectations were so low that the actual thing seemed ok in comparison. If RTD or Moffat had had this episode it would have been a blast. RTD would have got Dan's real world back story spot on, and Moffat would have got the 'big bad' and the timey-wimey stuff right.
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:18 pm
Finally got around to see the episode. Amazing episode for the Chibnal era, average okish+ outside of the Chibbers scale.
- Spoiler:
- I am wondering what the hell protection just earth was meant to achieve, when the universe and rest of the solar system gets eaten.
It does feel like they have gotten an updated list of things to tick off. Chewbacca Jedi, Red dwarf (now that you mention it even I can see it), one original style lone weeping angel (much creepier than millions in a swarm), Doc chatting with Tardis, etc etc.. Throw in all the goodies, it's Halloween! Pile it on!
I think dogman was just interested in protecting his human, Doc isn't human and Yaz is not his human so doesn't matter if she's hurt or dead. More dog logic that intelligent humanoid space travelling species logic.
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:39 pm
- Spoiler:
- Petty wrote:(...)working class, on the dole, volunteers at a food bank but self sacrifces not taking any food for himself despite having none, disabled girlfriend(...)
- Spoiler:
- On that bit there I disagree, she was no pity fest at all, she's the one who had her life together, had a job etc. Sure the stump had to be center stage, this is Chibnal after all, but very decently handled by Chibal era standards. (And giving his last can of soup to a sad looking old man is such a cliché, this was much better imo. Can't have that AND the "make the poor work harder!" Dickens plot at the same time, it's too much!
)
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One does not simply woke into Mordor.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 07, 2021 2:53 pm
{{
- Spoiler:
- Its not thats she is disabled, as you say the fact she just happens to be is not a feature or relevant to her character or part in the narrative is actually really good for Chibnal era. Its just there, without a great red arrow and a sign reading "notice this" pointing at it for once. But at same time I could just imagine someone at the BBC happily putting a tick in the appropriate checkbox and thinking job well done. But is it really? Is it meanignful representation? Has the Ruth Doctor been?
Its like the obviously well used double mattress mysteriously lying on the TARDIS console floor the Doctor and Yaz land in for a overhead shot of them lying together on a double bed. Theres no explanation for why its there, or why it looks slept in or who sleeps in it. But is it meant to be a hint they are going somewhere with a Doctor/yaz romance line? Or is it just queer baiting? With Chibnal you never know. After all was killing off Ryans grandmother and Graham's wife in the first episode necessary or just killing a black woman to provide motivation and drama for the two remaining male characters? Chibnals good intentions are often so clumsily implemented their effect is the opposite of intended.
I'd rather not have either endless hints of a releationship like the mattress that never develop into real drama, but then Id also rather not have a romance between them. Its more retreading old ground as far as the Doctors character is concerned.
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Sun Nov 07, 2021 3:09 pm
- Spoiler:
- You made me nauseous, like som mild form of ptsd, I'm trying to forget all of Chibnals.. well intentions. I really don't want any tardis romantic drama of any sort, I was done with that with Rose ( and not a super big fan of that either). Queer baiting just pisses me off. *Angry Amarie noises*
Imo museum lady is the most meaningful representation so far, I'm just hoping future episodes stay at this level and hopefully above, and that we (ok, I) can continue to pretend the previous Chibal stuff never happened.
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#amarieco
One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
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-Marcus Aurelius
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:54 pm
{{ Chibnal improves again. That was a far more coherent narrative than last weeks and felt like a solid entertaining Who episode.
- Spoiler:
- Not without some issues but none of them large enough in themselves to derail the thing. The Sontarans at both ends of the time line were too easily defeated, the Doctors plan involved Dan somehow dealing with the present day Sontarans but actually relied on the completely unforeseen arrival of dog guy who actually got rid of the Sontarans, Dan doesn't in fact do anything in the end which was a bit of a shame. If dog peoples ships have all left earth (presumably the eclipse thing was when they shielded the planet so it didn't last that long) and they knew about the Sontarans and cared enough to do something about it, why would they all go home and just leave that one dog to defeat an entire Sontaran army? So there are plot elements its not worth thinking to closely about or they fall apart.
The cgi is also a mixed bag, the Sontarans ship in Liverpool docks looked great, the cgi armies clashing more like a playstation 3 cutscene.
But these elements aside there was much that was good, Seacole's appearance in this fortunately didn't have the hero worship and glorifying of the historical figure that something like Rosa suffers from. Here we just get the woman and what she did and a flavour of her personality. Its more like Charles Dickens in Unquiet Dead than Rosa, and all the better for it.
The main bad guys, but especially the bloke continues to give an impressive screen holding performance, the way he revels in his evilness reminds me oddly of Tim Curry in Rocky Horror Picture Show, something of the same indulgent glee in the fun to watch performance.
Separating out the companions was a good idea. Yaz gets the least to do in this one, she remains more confident and useful than before still but really doesn't get a lot to do here, and her final cliff-hanger appearance as one of the time watcher people in the Temple is somewhat reminiscent of Donna's face appearing on the talking visitor points in Silence in the Library.
But the character it benefits most is the Doctor. Jodies Doctor is by far at her best when she doesn't have to make explanations and exposition at people, which for her fist two series was largely all she did. Here though she has to actually work things out, try to form plans, improvise under circumstances, use her brain. Al the things the Doctor should be doing.
Another thing is she feels more like the Doctor in terms of her empathy. In the scene after the losing battle when the British commander comes in and basically admits he is completely out of his depth, doesn't know what to do and needs help, despite having been a stubborn arse till then in his treatment of the Doctor, she empathises and accepts that he is heartfelt in his sorrow. 13 of episodes like It Takes You Away would have shown no such empathy or forgiveness and be making snide remarks and cutting them down still. Which never felt right for the Doctor, the Doctor can be an arse, rude, ignorant, lots of bad things, but never without compassion or a desire to understand.
I honestly don't know why Chibnal has had his Doctor babble so much when Jodie's best moments tend to be in stillness and contemplation or feeling the weight of her burden. This episode by separating her out for most of it was one of the few times Ive felt the writing plays into her strengths in the role.
Oh and one other little thing I noticed and was delighted by in this episode, and I'm not sure if Ive somehow just missed it before, or if the often subpar direction was just not framing shots previously in a way to notice it, but there's a scene where 13 runs down a corridor in wide shot and she has a very peculiar and odd run, reminiscent but unique in its own ways of 12's odd way of running (famously described by Bill as “running like a penguin with its arse on on fire.”
But its the sort of personal to her Doctor physical performance I haven't noticed or felt before with 13 whose physical movement so this point have seemed very generic sweep the sonic and legs apart stance. But happy to see her using more of herself in embodying the Doctor finally.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:41 am
{{Overnight viewing figures aren't great, its shipped half a million already down to 3.96 million.
Given I'd say this weeks was a much better episode than last I wonder if too much damage has already been done to Chibnals brand of Who, and last weeks low rated AI episode and its messy unclear narrative just turned a bunch of folk off.
Theres a chance word of mouth will boost this one on consoladated figures after two weeks, but Chibnal era has not being doing well in that area either, putting on the fewest extra consoladated numbers than any previous NuWho series.
I would expect the AI for this one when it comes out to be higher than last weeks however. I think of those who did watch it will have gone down better.}}
Given I'd say this weeks was a much better episode than last I wonder if too much damage has already been done to Chibnals brand of Who, and last weeks low rated AI episode and its messy unclear narrative just turned a bunch of folk off.
Theres a chance word of mouth will boost this one on consoladated figures after two weeks, but Chibnal era has not being doing well in that area either, putting on the fewest extra consoladated numbers than any previous NuWho series.
I would expect the AI for this one when it comes out to be higher than last weeks however. I think of those who did watch it will have gone down better.}}
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:29 pm
{{ Thought I'd bring back due to no public demands whatsoever - Things That Don't Make Sense - seeing as its Chibnall. Now this is trickier than usual because some things might eventually make sense by the end of the six episodes. But for these examples, I doubt it.
- Spoiler:
- The Doctors plan- her plan relies on the observations made by Seacole of the Sontaran patient in her hospital and the notes she takes for the Doctor of the Sontaran camp: corroborating that the Sontarans all go into a rest mode for seven and half minutes every day in order for the internal atmosphere in their suits to be refilled, as earth atmosphere is toxic to them over a time.
The first problem here is not really a doesn't make sense so much as a clumsy plot conveyance- they all bar I think one guard we see go to sleep so anyone can just walk onto their ships during that 7 and a half minute period. It never occurred to one of the greatest fighting forces in the universe to do it in shifts?
What is really annoying is this is one of the ways Chibbers does his Doctor a disservice in the writing, instead it being a chance for a brillaint plan to get round a dangerous and difficult problem he just removes the problem, taking away an opportunity for his Doctor to shine.
The second problem is a doesn't make sense one - Seacole observing the rest cycle of the Sontaran in her hospital- he cant be resting and recycling his suit he's in a hospital with no Sontaran technology, nowhere to plug into. Plus he should presumably be dead by now from over exposure to our atmosphere and a lack of whatever is in their suit atmosphere Sontarans need to survive.
Dog alien comes back for Dan explaining they are still species bonded and he is still his human he has to rescue. But they already did the shield the Earth thing and left and the rest didn't take their human, so why is this one still species bonded to Dan and trying to rescue him?
We still have no explanation for what happened last week, it appeared the Flux destroyed a sizeable amount of the solar system, the dog aliens only protected earth (how that worked we still don't know and I doubt will ever get an explanation for) so surely Earth should be screwed with half the solar system missing? But clearly when Dan is there its absolutely fine. So what happened?
On top of that what happened at end of last weeks epiosde, the TARID was about o be engulfed by te Flux and bang this episode starts with them waking up elsewhere. How? Why? How did they get out of the dilemna? You cant end on a cliffhanger and simply ignore it and not resolve or even mention it.
The Doctors plan for dealing with the Sontarans in Dan's time is, well it's non existent basically. It amounts to 'Dan think of something' and only happenstance and unexpected dog alien arrival provides the means. * This again is another case where the chance for the Doctor to do something clever is squandered and instead a solution literally materialises out of thin air to save the plot and make the good ending happen.
And to end on a smaller quibble, how did not a single Sontaran get killed in the battle .The British have cannons, the Sontaran in the hospital is there because he was injured by cannon fire, so we know they can be injured even if bullets and bayonets do nothing. But the two sides clash in traditional battle style and melee combat takes place, yet not a single Sontaran took a bash to that back port in the melee, not even by accident?
* Compare this to a similar scene at the end of Into the Dalek where 12 is coming up with his plan, or not seemingly -
DOCTOR: Every memory recorded. Some suppressed, but all still intact. We need to show the Dalek that star being born again. Recreate that moment. You need to get up there, find that moment and reawaken it.
CLARA: Me?
DOCTOR: Yes, you. Good idea.
CLARA: How?
DOCTOR: Haven't the foggiest. Do a clever thing. And then once you've done it, the Dalek will be suggestible to new ideas.
On the surface it seems the same- the Doctor telling a companion to do something clever as part of the plan but not telling them what. Except in Into the Dalek the Doctor has told her, throughout the episode everything she needs to know to realise what to do is information already provided to her and the audience. The Doctor already knows Clara knows what to do, she just needs to work it out and realise she has all the information she needs already, and Clara does which is one of things which makes a good companion and gives the companion something proactive and important to do based off their own merits.
In this episode 13 offers no plan other than basically the same as 12's 'do something clever' to Dan, but he has neither travelled enough to have experience nor got the information to know what to do, nor does the audience, and in fact he doesn't do anything as dog alien arrives to save the day for him. So inthis case it neither gives the Doctor an opportunity to be clever by having already dropped all the information needed to do the plan, as with Clara, nor does it provide a moment for the companion to shine by figuring it out and doing it, as Dan does nothing, whilst Clara uses her knowledge to reactivate the Dalek memory cores.
Its liek Chibnal knows what beats should be there, but doesn't understand why they are there.
Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 08, 2021 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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