Re: More Hobbit pictures | SPOILER THREAD

by **Amarië** Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:09 pm

Orwell wrote:"champaining" Amarie?

Is this a new word - or I am as ignorant as Petty thinks I am?

I do believe it is a fairly new creation, and not mine I might add, but I like it. Smile

by **Amarië** Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:15 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Well said your Maj Tin. Could not agree more. Just something not dwarvish looking about them- also none of the dwarves who accompany Gimli to the Council look like this lot- they all looked more like Gimli- and I had always assumed one of those other dwarves was meant to be Gloin, obvously not!!

I thought one of them was Gloin too... Perhaps PJ forgot or decided that's just how Gloin aged. Razz

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:22 pm

Its amazing how often PJ and the Coven can come up with reasons why the original would not work, or when they seem to simply forget things, like distance, and time passing, or when they fiind that its best to forget the original altogether in favour of some preposterous nonsense they have kncoked up themselves without even begiing to think through the ramifications.

They're going to have to build some sort of special crabbit explosion proof cinema for me to see this in or many will die angry!

by **Orwell** Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:03 am

Amarië wrote:
Orwell wrote:"champaining" Amarie?

Is this a new word - or I am as ignorant as Petty thinks I am?

I do believe it is a fairly new creation, and not mine I might add, but I like it.

Thought it might be.... Championing a cause and complaining meanwhile? ... I like it too... Very Happy

and how accurate! But wouldn't champainjibing be even more accurate? Suspect

I'll look it up... study

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:23 am

Enough of this! Its bad enough Ringdrotten and Amarie are making up words on one of the other threads (sounds a bit Danish) without you two joining in! Evil or Very Mad

by **Orwell** Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:31 am

((((It might be worse, Petty, it could have been Norweigan! Shocked

)))))

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:33 am

((((Now, now theres no need for that kind of talk Orwell))))

by **Orwell** Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:19 pm

((((( I hope champaining doesn't mean Amarie thinks me a "champion pain", because that wouldnt be nice, no, not nice at all.... Suspect

)))))

by **Amarië** Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:37 pm

Orwell wrote:((((( I hope champaining doesn't mean Amarie thinks me a "champion pain", because that wouldnt be nice, no, not nice at all.... )))))

I must say I read it: champagne-ing, I imagined it as spreading ones opinions all over the place and other people in a rather snobbish and down-you-nose kinda way. Smile

And I am always so very nice, so I couldn't possibly think you are a champion pain, could I? Shrugging

by **Orwell** Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:32 pm

Snobbish?

Down-your-nose? affraid

You make me sound like Odo! Sad

by chris63 Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:19 am

More Hobbit pictures | SPOILER THREAD - Page 4 Dwarvs11

Thorin

by Tinuviel Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:05 am

So now dwarves are neanderthals. Some consistancy would be nice!

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:15 am

Definently doesn't look the sort to wear a sky blue hood with a tassle! Shocked

I'm getting a sense of angry but not of importance, in the book its a sense of the importance and authority of Thorin you get-not whatever this is.

by Ringdrotten Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:35 am

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:15 pm

I'm having a very hard time picturing this band of dwarves getting caught and put in sacks by three talking trolls, among many other things.

by Tinuviel Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:02 pm

Agreed petty, If I was Bilbo, and these folks came into my house, I would have felt myself obliged to ask what race they were. Actually, if these had been the dwarves Aule had made orginally, I think Iluvatar would have let him destroy them. I can picture it now.....

(Aule raises his hammer, looking around to see if anyone is going to stop him. When nobody does, he shrugs and pounds the dwarves back into the ground. Aule sits there pouting. Iluvatar shows up)
Iluvatar: Now now, Aule, have you learned your lesson? Next time you make such a dastardly inconsistant and flat out proposterous race, it'll be YOU who's smashed into the ground!
Aule: But how will I know if I get it right next time??
Iluvatar: Well, think about what you just made, and do the EXACT opposite.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:22 pm

"think about what you just made, and do the EXACT opposite."

lol!

Ah Tin if only PJ had the good sense to contact you and ask your opinion at the desgin stage we'd not be in this mess now. In fact he should have that quote pinned up on his camera and we might get a decent adaptation yet!

by Elthir Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:29 pm

On another forum I've encountered this question, for example, arguably due to Jackson's characterizations:

'Is it remotely possible that the name 'Longbeards' might be something that was more applicable to the ancestors of the dwarves in The Hobbit than the dwarves themselves?'

So, to note some descriptions here (Please add any instances as you notice any):

Dwalin's beard was so long it could be tucked into his belt for example, and the Elves joked that Thorin's beard was long enough without watering it. Dain's folk had beards forked and plaited and thrust into their belts, and in The Lord of the Rings, Gloin's beard was described as very long and forked. In The Book of Lost Tales (written before The Hobbit in any case) the beards of the Dwarves 'reach even to their toes, but the beards of the Indrafangs are the longest of all, and are forked, and they bind them about their middles when they walk abroad.'

So Tolkien seems quite aware that long beards could get in the way, adding details to explain how this might be dealt with. Much later, compare the older Book of Lost Tales description to...

'The Naugrim were ever, as they still remain, short and squat in stature; they were deep breasted, strong in the arm, and stout in the leg, and their beards were long. Indeed this strangeness they have that no Man nor Elf has ever seen a beardless Dwarf -- unless he were shaven in mockery, and would then be more like to die of shame than many other hurts that to us would seem more deadly. (...) ... they called the Enfeng or Longbeards, for their beards swept the floor before their feet.'

JRRT, The Later Quenta Silmarillion

These are the words Pengolodh spoke to Elfwine, an Anglo Saxon Mariner. And back to The Hobbit, for another example: 'You would have laughed (from a safe distance), if you had seen the dwarves sitting up in trees with their beards dangling down, like old gentlemen gone cracked and playing at being boys.'

The general impression I get is long beards -- and even longer for the... erm, Longbeards. There were at least two other clans who have 'beard names', the Firebeards and the Stiffbeards, but my guess is they still grew notable beards with respect to length, whatever these names refer to.

While the question above is simply that, a question, I'm guessing it hails from someone wondering (at least) if Jackson's characterizations of some of his 'Dwarves' might be possible even considering Tolkien's descriptions. But for beings actually bearded so early in life, and the seeming emphasis on beards and shame, I could not agree that even a young Dwarf would simply be sporting stubble for example; and for myself, I even tend to doubt (without specific support here admittedly) that Bombur's somewhat bare chin fits very well, despite whatever that 'hair necklace' is supposed to represent in any case.

I'm aware that Jackson desired diversity, but that's a different argument than if one were to suggest that Tolkien has left the matter open enough to allow for relatively short beards or even stubble -- again, in fairness, not that this person I quoted above is necessarily arguing that point, rather than wondering about a name, in general.

by Ringdrotten Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:43 am

More Hobbit pictures | SPOILER THREAD - Page 4 DwarvesFinal-1024x311

Where is the consistency?! Mad

.....

by Eldorion Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:53 am

Several of those look more like humans, and if not for the context then I could have sworn that Kili was just an unusually short elf. Suspect

And that hair on Nori! Mad

Color me unimpressed...

by Ringdrotten Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:58 am

Nori's hair looks like an unhealthy pokemon Mad

by Eldorion Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:00 am

Elthir wrote:I'm aware that Jackson desired diversity, but that's a different argument than if one were to suggest that Tolkien has left the matter open enough to allow for relatively short beards or even stubble -- again, in fairness, not that this person I quoted above is necessarily arguing that point, rather than wondering about a name, in general.

You make some very good points, and ones that hadn't even occurred to me. I mentioned in a previous discussion about beard colours that I didn't really mind changes to that, but I think you make a good argument about the importance of the presence of beards of some sort to Tolkien's Dwarves. I can't say that I'm surprised that Jackson dispensed with floor-length beards, but it would have been nice to see more. And the stubble is one of the reasons that Film!Kili looks so weird to me.

by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:14 am

Dwarves have beards! End of. And proper ones. Thick bristling, bushy, long enough to tuck in a belt or use to wipe the sweat of your forehead after a longs days mining. This troupe of so-called dwarves look, as Eldo pointed out, like a travelling company of human and elves. None of them really look like the same race as Gimli or the Dwarves at the the Council of Elrond in PJ's own films. So if he is not even going to stick by that what hope he would stick with the book? And the colours of the beards doesnt have to be garish, it can be subtle. And its not like they'd all look the same with long beards,, many ways to do a long beard, pleated, split, tucked in, forked, add the colours and coloured hoods and there you go-proper dwarves.

by Tinuviel Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:51 pm

I think the folks on the new Hobbit Movie Forum agree with us, just read for yourselves!!!

http://the-hobbit-movie.com/forum/topic/the-dwarven-pictures

Hopefully PJ will take a hint.........

by Elthir Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:07 pm

Elthir once posted: But if you like this detail there's good news still, as when it came time to revise The Hobbit yet again (due to Ace Books) Tolkien seemingly misplaced this revision (or what there was of it -- not much really, relative to the whole story anyway), and even despite some revision to the book, Gandalf's eyebrows remained sticking beyond the brim in any case!

Ahem, the beyond the brim eyebrows are in The Lord of the Rings too. Really now!