All New Who

Just poking around just poking around...

Fun reading this thread. Made me think of the one episode I saw..then I think I must have fallen asleep. I have grown a beard meanwhile. Maybe I should watch another episode. A good sleep can be hard to come by.

{{{ My sporran has grown a beard, or maybe mould but thats beside the point, in the time since you were last here  And poor Lesbo Proudfoot has locked himself in his unrespectable upstairs bedroom and hasn't produced an issue of Wholesome Tales for longer than even the NotP has!  There used to be standards you know?!! Granted not very high ones, but standards none-the-less  that you could point to and say, aye, thats a standard all right. And nights in the pub, there used to be more of them too. Ahh the Muck 'n' Duck...  

There was a point to this Orwell, and whatever it was you started it!!!     }}}

{{ Eccleston is finally stepping back towards Who again, taking part in Comic Cons and the like, heres his first big appearance, where he, accidentally know doubt, throws some small fuel on the old RTD/Moffat as writers argument.
When asked about his favourite epiosde he gives Empty Child/Doctor Dances and goes on to say-

'They were written by Steven Moffat. And I felt I really understood what he wanted from the Doctor, I was as never as sure what Russel wanted. What I could see with Russel was exactly what he wanted for Rose, and Billie Piper, I think that was his strength, I think Steven's writting of the Doctor, or my Doctor, was really a gift to me.' }}

Well clearly he just doesn't understand Who.

{{}}

{{ What he says about the 50th and why he didnt come back is interesting too from a writing point of view.
We already know it was horrendous for Moffat to write, and that the BBC had him doing all sort of stupid things (like writing a first version with no Doctors not even 11 in it, only Clara as Jenna was the only actor the BBC had got under contract for it at that time!) so its interesting to hear it from Chris's side-

"I was invited to do the 50th, yes. And it was written by Steven Moffat so obviously I was really interested, but when I read the script I felt that it was basically myself Matt and Dave riffing off the fact we used to be the Doctors. I personally didn't feel the narrative was strong enough, particuarly for the 9th Doctor because I'd taken quite a lot of abuse in my home country in the press. As the show was being celebrated in the press I was being abused and that was really hard to take, and confusing.
So I looked at it and thought is this really the way I want to come back? And I decided it wasn't.
And there were other facors, political factors, but what's interesting is I've read a lot of scripts so I understand the strength of scripts and when I was sent the new draft, which was without me, and with the late, great and one of my big heroes, John Hurt.. (goes on long digression about the brilliance of Hurt and recommends what to go see him in)...and he (Hurt) was the War Doctor and I just thought that script was immaculate.
And I think it added to the canon of Doctor Who in a way that me coming back wouldn't. I think the War Doctor was a brilliant working of Steven Moffat's imagination. And I loved watching him do that.'

Neccessity being the mother of invention indeed! }}

{{ This is definetly worth your time.
Student graduates and teachers from Lancashire Uni have recreated one of the lost Doctor Who epiosdes- Mission to the Unknown- shooting it and performing it in a pretty pitch perfect way capturing the look, feel and sound of the Hartnell era. Great stuff. Enjoy, I did. }}

Why does it have to be the bloody Daleks That was brilliant actually. From the opening music to the TA-Daaaaa at the end. That original theme always gave me the willy's.

{{ The way they have recreated the look, sets, lighting, even the correct pronounciation and accenting for BBC actors of the time, that slightly odd clipped way of speaking is all spot on.
So much so that I showed bits of it to Nagual the other day without first telling him anything other than it was one of the previously 'lost' episodes. And though I am sure had he watched it start to finish he would have eventually clicked from the few small give aways there are its not the original thing, he was fooled by what he saw into accepting at face value it was an original piece of 60's tv.
And thats not a comment on Nagual's observation skills but praise for the students who did such a great job of capturing an era. }}

This might interest you Petty, on r/gallifrey there's a weekly(?) post with Big Finish Updates:

https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/dh5g7f/big_finish_podcast_notesmisc_doctor_who_news/

''They have recorded Tom Baker stories ‘beyond the end of our licence’ (so beyond 2025!)''

That seems especially interesting Season 12 of the 4th Doctor audios is the latest announced so far, and is out in 2023, I also seem to recall reading somewhere they had already recorded up to the end of a 16th Season!

Amazing to think there's loads of Big Finish stories already recorded that wont be out for years to come, despite his age it seems Tom baker is busier than ever in his 'retirement'!.

The next series of 8th Doctor audios has been announced as well 'Stranded' another run of 4 boxsets of 4x1 Hour stories, more info coming towards the end of the year.

{{ Cheers Malick, Ill check that out. It really is amazing how much he has done as the Doctor over the years. Many actors would be resentful of being solely thought of as one role, especially a character actor like he was, and not like he hadnt had good success as such, Educating Rita, Seven Voyages of Sinbad and many other great character pieces. But his passion for being the Doctor has never dimmed nor his love of the fans. And of course he is wonderfully eccentric and the best sort of egotist which makes his autobiogrpahy and his interviews a treat -



Now onto the point you raised on other thread -

'i mean can daleks actually do diy with those hands?'- Malick

In theory yes, sort of. We never actually see it and this is what bothers me.
We know there are different types of Dalek bred for specific jobs- soldiers, engineers, scientists, and the like.
We know they can survive outside the shell of their casing, but they seem to mentally degenerate when they do if left out any amount of time, becoming more animalistic (although now not if they are first chopped up into several pieces and put together again a few thousand years later, then they are just fine- thanks Chibbers!   ).
But they can certainly last long enough to switch casing when new designs and upgrades ae invented. For example presumably the Daleks didnt just breed all new Dalek warriors for the Time War for the new Time War casings with all its upgrades, but transferred the bulk of their exisiting warrior class into the newly made casings.
And lastly we also know that even Davros 'original' design Daleks were (I think) a class 3 travel machine, meaning there were 2 other ones before it and no reason more would not follow as the design was refined by the Daleks themselves.
We also know they build, its not all slave labour- their spaceships, buildings, prison camps and the like.

The implication is that Daleks work very much like the Martians in War of the Worlds (to which they bear a physial resemblance if a lot smaller- a ugly blob thats mainly brain with tentacles they can use to manipulate their machines) and like the Martians its reasonable to assume that Daleks have other casings which are tooled up and specifically designed for the needed tasks, like building. Just as the Martians use the small spider like machines to make the big tripod machines.

But whilst all this is heavily implied and would be necessary for Daleks to function, its never shown because the Dalek design is so iconic no one dares change it, but I think fans could cope with it not being changed but just occasionally seeing alternative casings in certain cirumstances where it'd make sense. }}

Another Big Finish update, apparently they are already 'working on' their 60th Anniversary Who story! (i.e a special story to be released in 2023 for the anniversary, as they did with 'The light at the end' in 2013 to mark the 50th, or recently with 'The Legacy Of Time' a multi episode boxset released a couple of months ago to mark the 20th anniversary of Who at Big Finish) no idea if this means they are merely discussing story ideas, or already recording actors...some of the Tom Baker episodes are recorded up to four or five years ahead of release so you never know...

{{ While back I mentioned how desperate the BBC were for series 11 to get some awards by sticking it up for everything, and its got sod all, and that their best bet was the latest awards show- the Welsh BAFTAS, given its produced and shot in Wales and the show has generally picked up something at it every other one. Well this year it was up for 4 awards including best actress for Jodie, best tv drama, best fx and production design.

Well it got sod all again. Even the Welsh who financialy benefit off Who being shot there wont give series 11 an award. Give it up BBC!!!! Its not getting awards because it was bloody awful. It's just flogging a dead horse and its embarrasing.    

In other news to make you feel the shows a goner under Chibbers one of the cast members of Demons of Punjab has been defending the shows political correct turn-

"I remember the creative team were very much excited by the fact that they knew there would be people who would not be as excited. They would want it to be just the way Doctor Who was before.  {by this I presume they mean, fun and appealing to a broad audience}
But they (the crew) wanted to change things up and they wanted to open it up to a whole new audience as well. So there may have been some audience lost, but there has been so much gained as well, for the better."  {Not sure what has been gained, the show shed  a ton of viewers from 1st ep to last of series 11 (about 4 million in fact) series 11 was the first to get more than one episode scoring below 80 in the audience appreciation index, and over its run the viewing figures on BBC America halved and the New Year special- which should have been the crowning jewel on Jodies debut series- was the least watched seasonal epiosde of NuWHo ever. Series 11 curently has an audience score on Rotten Tomatoes of 21% }

So there you have it, they know what they are doing, they know its not Who as we know it and they know a lot of the shows fans wont like it and that makes them excited and is what they want - but problem is its not for the better, fans don't like it for the very good reason its bad.
Take the Demons episode, even if you take aside all considerations of the political side of it its a plot-hole riddled mess in which the main character of the show has no agency or purpose in the narrative beyond being there (and the same goes for the aliens in the story, just there). Thats whats wrong with it. Its badly written worthiness, a good message forced onto the viewer by the crudest means giving no allowance in the writing for natural plot development or characterisation but is solely concerned with conveying its worthy message with all the subtly and skill of a tapdancing centipede on a hot plate, thats had all its legs cut off. And never learned to tapdance. Its awful.}}

Go sing it from the mountain Petty the stubbornness from the BBC is laughable, they really wont give in until someone agrees with their point of view, ( no dogs allowed except guide dogs ) The BBC have always seen themselves as world leaders, they have an air of 'ruling the world' & don't want to relinquish that title. They were there when the bombs fell, they were there at the coronation & they'll be there when androids take over. And with some actors ( not naming any names JODIE ) I think that day has come. I think the BBC are running on pure pride, blind as that maybe. They are relying on heavy weights such as Attenborough, Panorama & Whickers World to keep the flag flying. They could have succeeded if they just left Dr Who alone. I bet there were smiles all over the canteen at having a woman Dr. Probably cracked open a box of 'Milk Tray' & actually shared them out they were so euphoric. Dreams never last long. Go back to the old format, get in a likeable Dr who isn't crazy enough to be on Diazepam & gives us the good old fashioned chills & thrills as we used to have ! ( oh & creepy music, must have creepy music ) Bring back the woosh woosh Tardis theme, with the dang-ee-da-dang guitar sounding bit !

The thing is they could have had a female Doctor and it could have been exciting and fresh. But then they went for broke and in the process diluted the brand down to mush. And that was even before the bad writing happened.

halfwise wrote:The thing is they could have had a female Doctor and it could have been exciting and fresh.  But then they went for broke and in the process diluted the brand down to mush.  And that was even before the bad writing happened.

So true.

{{{ It should have been fine- Who as it was, but with a female Doctor but still obviously a version of the Doctor. Thats all they had to do to make it work fine.
But no a female Doctor wasn't enough, they also wanted to turn the show into a trojan horse for pushing progressive social causes and particular social agendas week after relentless week. Thats what killed it- that took precedent over plot, characters, everything. That's what stops it feeling like Who. Or fun, or exciting or adventurous, or daring or challenging. All the things it has been for more than 50 years prior (and fortunately still is on Big Finish).}}

"best actress" Don't think so.

{{ I've noticed a trend among Who fanvid makers of late- they either pretend Jodie and Chibbers era hasnt happened and ignore it, or keep her appearences if at all as mininmal as possible, luckily this one chooses the former route and ignores her series entirely.

One good thing that has come from the Chibbers/Jodie era so far- faced with series 11 there has been a notable uptick in fanmade Who among its younger members in the absence of any good Who on TV. }}

cool, shows dedication.

{{ Some more indications Chibnall and Jodies era is dying on its feet so far, and its hitting the BBC where it hurts, right in the merchandising-

Classic series action figures are currently outselling the current TARDIS crew action figures by a staggering 25/1. The current TARDIS crew selling a measly 6000 units and the licencees who make them have not sought to renew their licences to do so again as of yet.
And DWM magazine has stopped putting Jodie on its cover so often in favour of previous or even classic Who imagery as when Jodie is on the cover they drop sales.
And its pretty bad on the DVD sales front, even accounting for streaming and such these days the drop in dvd sales for series 11 was huge, it shifted less than 10,000 copies (NUWHo at his peak was shifting 250,000 units) and though I cant find figures for sales of the blu-ray version I doubt its anywhere near like the 240,000 it would need to be to get back up near the top.
I supsect series 12 will be Chibnall's 'prove this can work' series or the BBC will be looking for a change or to put Who back on hiatus once more.}}}

{{ This is really good fun- a fan extended version of the Gallifrey Stands scene from the 50th, with added Doctor! }}

13 works well in very small, carefully chosen bits.
Makes you think what could have been...

Oh I liked that Got the old juices going for more great Dr Who adventures

{{ Series 12 is STILL filming. The current block is at least twice as long as normal, why this is the case is hard to say, rumour has everything from production issues, to writing issues, to cast issues but I reckon good chance they are just filming a special as well as whatever episode the last block was supposed to be. Though given the length of time this series has taken to make overall in comparison to previous its clear there have been 'issues' behind the scenes too. We just don't know exactly what they were.
Anyhow spoilers ahead for what that might be, or at least who might be in it-

Spoiler:

}}

I hate all this gender stuff ! Im wondering, if you make it male or female, much like ourselves, does it feel more comfortable that you can destroy this alien much like you can kill us ? BUT, if its a created sexless alien it seems harder to bump off as it has the Frankenstein feel about it making it more threatening & sinister ??