Tales of Home [9]

{{ Not sure folk are taking it entirely seriously here yet. At work just now, and whilst the hotel has fitted hand sanitizers around the building we are still full, over 100 folk from all over the country (in fact we are so full we had to put seven folk across to a neighbouring hotel) and the vast bulk of our clientele are over 50.
Not sure what happens if the government forces a close down either- hard enough living on min wages, damned if I know if I can get by on benefits only if they close us down in meantime.
Shit times! }}

So Italy is so pressed for hospital beds that they will deny intensive care to those not deemed likely to recover. https://www.yahoo.com/news/italians-over-80-left-die-151225888.html

Now there's a strong argument against the British approach to things. On this side of the pond the main argument made to people for social distancing is to avoid overwhelming the health care system. It's a message that seems to resonate. Though people are going about their everyday lives (and they mayor is urging folks to continue going to bar and restaurants to keep them afloat) the only crowds are waiting to pay in grocery stores. Restaurants are full but not packed; bars are only halfway full. All scheduled activities like concerts and lectures that force large numbers of people together are cancelled.

That's because the US is about 10 days behind Italy, it was like that here two weeks ago, nobody was taking it seriously. I should think that the over 80 year old thing is only in Lombardy at the moment because they are at breaking point, in other areas of Italy the numbers are low. sometimes single figures or in the teens and perfectly manageable.

My calculations show an increase by a factor of 10 every 8 days (that's New York State).  We've go 3 thousand now, in a month we'll be around 10 million if the NYS rates apply to the country.  Hmm...I should start keeping track of the country.

I think you should prepare for the worst and do some stock-piling. I stock-piled all household and personal care products to last me for a month, including things that are irritating to run out of in an emergency. I made a list of all the things I need during the day and bought enough so that I don't need to nip out and buy bits and pieces. Once there is total lockdown ALL non essential shops will close, so if you need computer stuff, stationery and hard goods buy them now. If you need coffee every morning buy one of those Nespresso machines and pods, I bought one for 140 euros. This is because all bars and coffee shop will close. If you need the dentist, do it now, get all niggly little jobs done now, don't wait. Buy medical stuff like paracetamol and cold relief, and stuff like that. Buy bottled water, loo-roll, and lots of tinned produce. I bought beans so I can make beans on toast. Buy long life milk, pasta and dry goods, and food for animals. After you have got a good stock of stuff you will need without panic buying too much you can relax when the lock-down happens. Because its only a question of time before you end up like Europe and everything shuts. MOST important are latex gloves, masks, hand gel, disinfectant wipes, and goggles, the type people use for DIY with no holes in the sides, they must be airtight, masks should be N45 if possible, you can buy them from DY stores and pharmacies. Fresh food/fruit/veg should be bought once a week at large supermarkets doing social distancing. Disinfect coins, handles, touch screens, and if possible don't go into elevators, small confined spaces.
It all sounds a bit '28 Days After', but the shit has hit the fan folks.  and don't rely on Johnson or Trump to protect you, they are fuckwits.

We are advised not to buy masks because health care workers need them more and there are already shortages.

I have food for perhaps a couple weeks, except for stable milk. That has to be ordered online because stores don't seem to carry it here.

{{ You don't have UHT milk in the States?
Was just watching one of the Republican senators who voted against the Pelosi, Trump backed deal, and sorry to say this Amercians, but your country is primitive and barbaric in many ways!
He said of a local company in his own district-

"..it is creating its own solution where its creating a pool of hours that its employees can pay back over time if they need to go quaratine or go on leave."

WTF? A pool of hours you pay back- why cause you need punished for being ill?!! Because you owe your employeer for being ill?

You dont have statuary sick pay? Nothing? What is wrong with America?!! Why do you put up with being treated so fucking awfully by your own government?
I honestly dont know what the American people think their government is for- youve no social security worth a a shit, your health care doesnt care and leaves millions with no health care at all and bankrupts many of those who do, costs are astronomical and far outside the average worker pay. you have no workers rights worth the name, your right to holidays a year, sick pay etc are awful or non-existent. You have shit public transport and the worst gun laws anywhere in the civilised world and get the resulting regular gun massacres as a result.
Hell your govenrment is proposing to combat Corona with a national prayer day! You couldnt make it up- what is this Medievil America? Have you tried leeches and drilling a hole in the top of the skull to let the demons out?
Far as I can tell the American people are happy to have crap working and life conditions due to a lack of services and government action so long as they can send their taxes to a government to spend on military and God? Why would you do this? }}

Many times I think about the injustices, corruption & low standards in this country, I think everyone must think their country has so many bad points & how much greener the grass is on the other side. Seriously, how do you get rid of what you have & create what youde like ?? There's always going to be many that cant stand the way you think or think they know better. It really is tricky. But there should be accepted certain standards in every country to my mind. Healthcare, wages & housing is where I'd start.

halfwise wrote:We are advised not to buy masks because health care workers need them more and there are already shortages.

I have food for perhaps a couple weeks, except for stable milk.  That has to be ordered online because stores don't seem to carry it here.

Buy just one mask for emergencies then. They will probably increase the production of them anyway.

When it gets like all pensioners are having to self isolate I hope young people will be asking any old neighbours who look like they are in difficulties if they can get anything for them at the shops. Its time we all showed out shit governments that we wont let the old folks suffer alone.

But there should be accepted certain standards in every country to my mind. Healthcare, wages & housing is where I'd start. - Azriel

{{ I'd agree. Governments should seek to provide basic cover for housing, food and health and ensure employers pay a fair wage through a minimum wage.
In fairness most european countries already do all these things, but America seems decades behind the curve on the idea governments should use tax payer money to benefit tax payers. For some reason that idea has never caught on in America. No idea why not as it seems obvious. }}

Petty, Petty, Petty. Taxpayer money should be used to bomb the shit out of any socialists who think taxpayer money should be used to help people. Should I really have to explain this?

Pettytyrant101 wrote: For some reason that idea has never caught on in America. No idea why not as it seems obvious. }}

There's a strong sense here, I think especially in the West, that we'd rather handle these things at the state level where we have more input. Remember, the driving distance from Alaska to Florida is about 5 thousand miles (similar to the distance from London to Pakistan or Somalia) and the needs of the people as far as housing, work, healthcare etc. are very VERY different. Remember what it was like to run an Empire, and all the injustices that followed?
So here in Washington we'd rather set our own taxes and apply them locally rather than having Washington DC demanding our money and then sending it off to other states with more influence. Maybe like Scotland thinking you folks do a better job taking care of your own people, as opposed to sending your money off to London and trusting them to send it back?

{{ That'd be fine, if it worked- but it doesnt seem to. Health care, wages, holiday and sick leave are all miles behind the rest.
What seems really weird from the outside though is that Americans in general seem determined to fight aganst getting stuff like health care free at point of need. That's like paying a tax for air, whilst arguing that you should still pay the air tax but that it should be bottled by private companies first and then sold back to you! And if you cant afford it, tough, you shoul have been more successful in life, youll just have to do without any air. }}

Dave's right, there's a general distrust of big government to do something when local government can do it. But of course if you get TOO local it doesn't work, which is where state government comes in. So the states manage the socialized medicine we DO have, which covers people who honestly can't manage it through corporate insurance. It's far from being a perfect solution, but most folks will settle with manageable where making it bigger runs the risk of losing control of it completely even if it should work better on paper.

Of COURSE big countries like China have demonstrated that large scale healthcare can work, but then you'd have to change everything that already creaks along here.

{{ It seems to me more like the average American has been duped by government and business into believing nonsense.
Insurance pharmacutcal and government dont want health care because it means they stop making a fortune of the ill and vulnerable.
You have no proper workers rights, holiday and sick pay days etc because its in the interests of business not to give you them and to exploit you for their benifit.

I for one dont believe that Amercians are either simply too stupid or to incompetent to do what every other major industrial nation in the world has done- the genius of it though was to convince you all you cant.

Sadly, to a degree, when I hear you and Dave explain this stuff its like your parroting exactly what these groups would want you to say. Like a victim making excuses for their oppressor.}}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{Sadly, to a degree, when I hear you and Dave explain this stuff its like your parroting exactly what these groups would want you to say. Like a victim making excuses for their oppressor.}}

It's possible you're parroting some things as well Petty.
First, I have very good insurance through the state healthplanfinder that costs me virtually nothing. When I had to be hospitalized for an extended period a few years ago, I ended up with a small handful of bills that were comparable to a grocery bill for the same period (granted, the hospital food was pretty grim... ... but still, not too bad!) Sure, there's plenty of room for reform, especially when it comes to Big Pharma price gauging, but the federal government seems no better at that than the states. When they show they can handle some of the easy stuff, maybe people will consider trusting them a little more.

Second, I don't WANT to live in an industrialized nation! That would be the end of family farming as we know it. The growth of Seattle due to Microsoft, Amazon etc. has caused nothing but problems for the rural part of Washington State. There's currently a secessionist movement in much of rural Washington and Oregon. The plan would be to join with Idaho which knows better than to try to impose an urban legal and taxing system on rural communities. I personally think that's a bit extreme. I'd rather fix the system if we can. But federal regulations have put enough of us out of business already.

First, I have very good insurance through the state healthplanfinder that costs me virtually nothing. - Dave

{{ What if you were unemployed? Or had preexisting health conditions that prevented you working? What god forbid something happens that makes you unable to continue farming? Does your insurance cover that I wonder?

I am all for democracy at small levels- I dont think its a good idea for city policies to be blanket applied to rural ones- things are different, needs, economy, travel difficulites etc. Having closer control is always better.
But where central government does have a role is setting minimum standards- such as health care for all regardless of income, paid leave and sickdays, minimum wage levels. Sure more closer bodies can tailor to suit needs, but never below those minimum standards.

The stats for the US are shocking- '500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills.' Thats a million families destroyed every two years just because they got ill. Now that really is sick and hard to see how having a NHS style sytstem even if imposed centrally would be worse than that. Not to mention the 44 million with no insurance at all or the 38 million whose insurance is completely inadequate.}}

{{ Good piece in the Atlantic explaining how France and Germany health systems woirk with insurance. A model surely easiest for the US to adopt form its current position. }}

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/04/do-europeans-get-big-medical-bills/586906/

Pettytyrant101 wrote:First, I have very good insurance through the state healthplanfinder that costs me virtually nothing. - Dave

{{ What if you were unemployed? Or had preexisting health conditions that prevented you working? What god forbid something happens that makes you unable to continue farming? Does your insurance cover that I wonder? }}

Yes actually. When the Affordable Care Act passed under Obama, Washington State took advantage of the new laws and put together a state/private insurance system through the exchanges that so far is working quite well for most people. There are still challenges of course, including for people who live on the margins with no physical address, but no system is perfect and there are people working to continue to improve it. This is the advantage that implementing by state has over trying to roll out a new system to serve all 330 million people in the USA all at once. You get to move decades faster, and you can custom fit to local needs and learn from each other's mistakes.

When the Affordable Care Act passed under Obama- David

{{Glad to hear some good came of it. But given how its been undermined and hated on since inception its not like it does what it should fully. And it may get repealed altogether yet.
The problem with leaving it solely at state level is there is no uniformity for people- move state and all your health provision changes too. Whereas if there was a minimum standard every state had to meet then at least youd know the base line you were covered for no matter where in the US you ended up (though you should be covered for anything regardless of income in a civilised rich and moral country!). }}

Obamacare did set some standards. All the hatred you mention is pure partisanship, flamed by Trump who was publicly humiliated at the White House Correspondent's dinner by Obama. His whole purpose in becoming president was to tear down Obama's legacy.

Unfortunately how well Obamacare works depends on which state you live in. Any guesses which party controls the states where it works? The other states are where you are hearing about people being uninsured, and also the ones complaining about Obamacare which doesn't work because they refuse to let it work.

Pettytyrant101 wrote: {{ But given how its been undermined and hated on since inception its not like it does what it should fully. }}

Ahhh! Still reading FOX news I see!

how well Obamacare works depends on which state you live in.- Halfy

{{Thats what I mean by no basic US wide standard, even if uts a minmum at least youd know its there.

Still reading FOX news I see!- Dave

And CNN and when I can the only actual US news source I like- PBS, especially their Sunday morning phone in show. Sadly I dont get to see it as much as I used to as BBC4 used to carry it live but doesnt seem to be on anymore

But Obamacare certainly seems to get a lot of stick, and there never seems much from the Dems coming back to counter it or vocally support Obamacare. I hear it mentioned either as a failiure by one side, or as a stepping stone by the other to a better system- rarely if ever for its own merits though. }}

halfwise wrote:
Unfortunately how well Obamacare works depends on which state you live in.  Any guesses which party controls the states where it works?  The other states are where you are hearing about people being uninsured, and also the ones complaining about Obamacare which doesn't work because they refuse to let it work.

Yep. The states like ours that set up their own exchanges under the Obamacare umbrella seem to be working together and doing pretty well. The ones that are still federally administered, not so much. Here's a map from Wikipedia. Black is administered by the states, light grey is administered by the Feds, and medium grey is State/Fed partnership. {{{it's all about shades of grey! }}}



Edit: images don't seem to be working right either. here's the link:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/ACA_health_insurance_exchanges_by_state.svg/1024px-ACA_health_insurance_exchanges_by_state.svg.png

And here's the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_marketplace

{{at least direct links seem to be working...}}

Anyway, the lesson learned is that the less the Feds are involved in our heath care, the better it seems to work!

{{ Image is showing fine at this end.

the lesson learned is that the less the Feds are involved in our heath care, the better it seems to work!- Dave

I wonder if thats more not because of any inherent difficulties in doing so, but a lack of wanting to do so at fed level.
Which is no excuse to not push to get them to want to do something.
Its bizzarre that a country the size of the US doesnt have a base standard across the nation for health care- sure local government can implement, cost things themselves and decide what the priorties are for that state, but it shouldnt be a lottery depending on where you live what sort of healthcare you get, or even if you get any at all. }}