Merry Christmas - 2017

Every one of those PJ Dwarves made me cringe. Every thing they did or said, made me cringe.

Happy festivities everyone... whatever type of festivities you observe.

Happy Yuletide Lance

happy christmas everyone. Belated that is..

spent the eve with my grandparents, they both live in a home now so kinda sad but the evening turned out really nice and i am really glad we got to spend it with them.

the rest of christmas is kinda meh... heartbreak isn't exactly a festive state of mind. gonna bake a cheescake and drink wine tonight. maybe get hammered on friday. working late on new years eve.. merry fucking christmas and happy new year.

Lancebloke wrote:Happy festivities everyone... whatever type of festivities you observe.

I observe Bah Humbug.

Why are you heart-broken Norc?

Forest Shepherd wrote:

Why are you heart-broken Norc?

i got dumped.. been seeing him for 2 years-ish.. now all the cheesy love-songs make sense...

All the cheesy love songs are telling you you're not alone, this is the way of the world.

It's somewhat healthier (but much less romantic if not downright cynical) to expect this from the beginning, and be continually surprised when it keeps not happening (if you stumble into the right relationship). I think this is where a lot of people end up - growing into the slow realization of happiness and viewing the dizzy sensations of burgeoning love with cautious suspicion. (cross reference Petty). It comes from heartbreak.

{{ Very true Halfy- I think its always best to expect the worst and be delighted if it continues to not happen to you- problem is you kind of have to go through the pain and heartache first when your young and foolish enough to believe in love songs still, to get to that point of acceptance going into future relationships. Kind of like your brain cant furnish the armour until its already been hurt that way at least once already!

I realize thats not a lot of help to you right now Norc so just look on it as you are a young, talented, gifted woman who is completely and utterly free to conduct herself a she sees fit now- dont mourn a loss, take advantage of a gain- all your independence, and just at the right age in your life to take full advantage of it. }}}}}

Look on the bright side Norc...at least you have actually been with someone for 2 years before being dumped...I've never been on a date in my life and I don't expect that to change anytime soon   (and if by some weird miracle or chance it did happen, I'd be so weirded out and terrified I'd probably screw things up anyway )

Hurrah for the wonderful combination of crippling anxiety, severe long term depression and probable demisexuality.

Oh, and I'm 26 in January, yay for me

{{{I have found Malick that things have a habit of happening unexpectedly and unplanned- and usually the better for it in affairs of the heart. I was single for donkeys years last time out and by all accounts I largely enjoyed it- Ive never had a problem with my own company! (never understood how folk have time to get bored in either!) I was neither looking nor longing for company I just happened to find it thats all, paths crossed, words spoken that sort of thing and here I am almost one year later still in a relationship, nothing planned, nothing sought, nothing to lose. I think thats probably the best way. }}}

Tbh, I never really gave a shit about being single/dating etc when I was younger, sure I had frequent crushes as a teenager but never had the courage or interest to act on them, relationships just struck me as some weird complicated thing that happened to other people (the crippling lack of self confidence and severe depression probably didn't help) and frankly I was glad I never had to deal with that hassle, sure I got pretty lonely sometimes but I was happy enough being single (well, I wasn't happy I was (and remain to an extent) severely depressed but I just couldn't cope with the pressure of a romantic relationship).

When I was 15-17 I went though an incredibly emotionally painful incident (the short version, one of my closest friends at the time was a girl, she asked me out, I turned her down completely baffled that anyone would be interested in me/terrified of screwing things up, but I soon realised I was actually deeply in love with her myself but never had the courage to tell her how I felt, we spent the next two years dancing around the issue and I completely tore myself apart emotionally (actually got rather physically ill from the stress) from the guilt/confusion/worry about damaging our friendship...eventually she got a boyfriend (who she later married and divorced after he cheated on her) and we completely drifted apart as friends haven't talked to her in years) that left me with a crippling sense of guilt/trust issues and cost me one of my best friends, kinda shut down emotionally after that and almost totally lost any interest in romantic pursuits for the next five or six years, it just caused me too much emotional pain, which I didn't want to cope with again on top of my various other issues, I was a very insecure introverted teenager and I've grown into a cynical snarky 20 something it's not exactly the best combination of personality traits for dating.

Eventually I made peace with the fact that I was likely to remain single for the foreseeable future or a long time, and pottered along quite happily in my own company, it's only in the last couple of years I've started to regain those feelings for women (currently have a massive crush on someone which has come as a rather perplexing surprise   after so many years) and lamented all the emotionally/romantic intimacy I'm missing out on, I still lack the confidence or interest to actively put myself out there, but I'm beginning to get rather lonely and wonder if I've missed the boat a bit, perhaps I am simply too weird and insecure to bother burdening someone with my problems and inexperience at this point, most people figure out this shit when they are 15 not 25, and I think on balance I'd fine the depression easier to cope with than the pressure of dating      

So yeah Norc, things could be worse...

perhaps I am simply too weird and insecure to bother burdening someone with my problems at this point,- Malick

{{{ The big truth is, so is everyone else! Really, well most people anyway, and the ones who dont seem to be are just the ones covering it up harder. A part of finding someone you can be with is that you dont hide those problems, or those bits of yourself you cant deal with easily, you cant hide them forever from someone you get close to- instead you shre them and help each other ideally. Don worry about being weird, I got Grade A Star Plus in weird, awkward and ginger. For the right person those blemishes are what they come to find endearing. }}}

most people figure out this shit when they are 15 not 25- Malick

{{{They do!? Wish some 15 year old had told me!! }}}

I think the main problems are A) I simply never cared enough to do anything about it, I'm so used to be single and alone at this point, the fear of the unknown seems rather more terrifying than remaining single indefinitely, I'm not exactly happy at the moment, but at least I know what to expect...the thought of dating someone... honestly totally fucking terrifies me which ties in with point B) If I can barely tolerate/cope with my owns burdens and personality how the hell and I'm supposed to open up emotionally and get on the same wavelength as someone else and show them the love/care they deserve? Especially at my age, who wants to date (perhaps 'teach' would be a more appropriate word in this case) a 25 yr old this inexperienced?

I guess some of us just aren't cut out for this romance stuff, which is a depressing thought but one I'm more than used to by now.

Apologies for the rant, I'm in a really fucking shit mood today

I totally get what you mean about the weirdness factor Malick, and the depression and the lack of self confidence. You say a lot that you cant be bothered, but I think you can be bothered only its too scary maybe? I got all that shit when I was 35 let alone in my 20s so I wouldn't worry about that. But if you really feel that you are in the mood for a radical change and you cant put up with the status quo, there is only one thing to be done, and its probably the scariest thing of all and it takes courage because it gets a lot worse before it gets better, and that's to ask for help, first off you need to actually find someone to help you and that's sometimes the tricky bit because who the fuck can you go to?? in my case my ex-husband dragged me to my doctor and said "my friend here is totally fucked up, and can you help her please because she is driving me bonkers'" which I was to be fair. Anyway I said no-way-jose to the anti-depressant drugs so the only other option was group therapy, which sucked troll balls for months, it got pretty shitty and emotional and childhood trauma yadda yadda blah blah, but slowly things fell into place and it got easier, and you always think its just you on your own feeling shit, but it turns out other people are going through the same stuff, and sometimes its worse shit than yours which is an eye-opener. but its good to unburden and work through it, because it was either change or go through my life as miserable as sin, and lifes too short and stuff. Anyway, I am still a weirdo, but I understand why I am a weirdo, and just roll with it, even though the depression has never really gone and it hangs around to bite my ass now and again, and the panic attacks and the being unable to have a conventional relationship, although I have now been married again for 20 years to another fellow oddball, at least he gets the weirdness and doesn't mind, and its way better than when I was in my 20s. I do think being solitary and odd never leaves you though, which is not all bad I guess. so yeah, I get it and you are not alone, there are many people feeling baffled and stuff. its hard.

Hey Figgs, thanks for the kind reply...I actually am in the process of seeking help, been on anti-depressants for around a month now (which are helping quite a bit actually), I have a couple of therapy sessions starting in January and I'm currently doing a course with the Princes Trust to help build my confidence etc, it's a start at least...at the risk of embarrassing Eldo and dragging him into a conversation he'd rather not be a part of (sorry mate!) he was already aware of what is going on (after I randomly drunkenly messaged him one night) and has been helping me a bit with lots of useful advice (thanks once again mate).

It's annoying, as I've started to work through the depression/anxiety and get better in my own mind of late, all my old insecurities about dating have come flooding back, it fucking sucks being severely depressed most of the time, but at least I didn't have to worry about that stuff, feels weird to realise I'm not totally asexual  but scary to realise I've been putting up barriers for myself all these years, several women have shown interest in me in the past so I know I'm not totally undesirable I guess I'm just too much of a depressed coward to do anything about it.

In my experience, the only people who aren't insecure and occasionally depressed are assholes, so I'd count that as a successful character trait, Malick.

The word depression is thrown around a lot amongst guys of my generation. I've experienced my fair share of what I've called depression. Apart from really significant flair-ups, I think most of it can be countered by actively doing shit. I feel the most "depressed" after I spend the afternoon lying around the house eating ice cream sandwiches and lazing around online. If I do something like going to see a movie or playing board games with people or just working on some home project it brings my spirits up a lot. Doing something that either advances one socially, or results in a tangible end-product, not stuff like playing video games. That's what works for me.

I'm 26, turning 27 in April. I've never been on a date either, and certainly have never noticed a girl being interested in me, whatever that looks like. I have been slowly building my confidence though, generally by realizing that most people suck and are insecure idiots.
I think I've gotten to the point that I do have some self-worth. I've always had a self-inflated ego by being a do-gooder snob, but some of that has translated into a recognition of what about me is actually valuable.

Go after those relationships! It's not alchemy (I hope), and can't be all that challenging, right? I mean, you know how to get money and spend it on things, and that's most of the battle when it comes to getting a romantic partner, or so I've heard.

Edit: hey, I'm curious, what does it mean that "some women showed interest in me"? What does that look like, in practical terms? It'd be quite helpful if I could pick up on these things, if they ever happen.

Forest Shepherd wrote:
I'm 26, turning 27 in April. I've never been on a date either, and certainly have never noticed a girl being interested in me, whatever that looks like. [/qupte]

Er...can't say that's a good thing I guess, but I suppose it's reassuring to know I'm not alone, I don't know you that well Forrest but you always seemed like you had your shit together much better than I do, and despite the 9 months age gap you always struck me as more mature, I still mentally feel 15 not 25...

Edit: hey, I'm curious, what does it mean that "some women showed interest in me"? What does that look like, in practical terms? It'd be quite helpful if I could pick up on these things, if they ever happen.

Well I'm not exactly an expert on this stuff (and lets face it, men tend to be oblivious at the best of times ) but other than that girl who asked me out back in school, a friend confessed at college when we 18 that she had once harboured a huge crush for me several years previously (which in retrospect I should have realised, but me being the oblivious idiot I was I didn't realise staring constantly at me, writing me notes, laughing at all my jokes, wanting to hang around with me at break times, asking for my mobile number (I dind't have one at the time) etc were the signs of romantic attraction and nor mere friendship)  about 3 years ago when I was working at Argos as a delivery assistant a rather flirty colleague very heavily hinted she was interested in me with similar actions (something another co-worker later confirmed apparently she told him at the xmas party) but she had only just turned 18 which put me off a bit and she left before I got a chance to know her better (not that I would have had the confidence to have done anything anyway). Recently another girl I met at the Princes trust on a group cinema trip (well, she's 24 so not a girl) decided to start flirting with me within minutes of me meeting her, for some reason deciding to grill me on all my hobbies and telling me all about her troubled home life, laughing at all my jokes and following me into the cinema screening instead of sitting with the people she knew from her own course group (that last one may just be me reading too much into things   hmm I think she is single though...).

Tbh I only really pick up on the obvious signals (why can't women just ask us directly? men are idiots!) and having never made an active attempt to date (I've only ever sorta asked out one girl, about 12 years ago...) I'm far from an expert, I'm sure you've missed a few hints of your own, you aren't an ugly dude Forrest and seem like quite a nice, thoughtful guy perhaps you've just been oblivious or self doubting like me and missed an opportunity

I don't want to pry or make you uncomfortable, but out of interest Forrest why have you also shied away from dating? Similar issues to me, or just a lack of interest?

Being here, reading these extremely open & honest out pouring's is so heart warming I cant tell you. And for some of us that's therapy at its best. I'm the oldest fogey here, apart from Orwell, but he's upside down & gravity has a weird way with your metabolism I'm a lonely bird also. Ive been thru the same dam fecking stupid hang ups, which I can now say are dam stupid because Ive skidded thru life & let the best bit slip away. There are days & evenings where company would be wonderful & Ive craved it. But then, I start thinking, & those thoughts turn into little voices asking me do I really want male things around my place ? shoes, toothbrush, basket of washing to be done ? I feel like I'm two people all at once. One person wants the car rides & the cuddles, debates & shopping trips & the other person says feck orrrf, I like my way of life, my things how I like them & no one to answer to. Ive also decided I do not want sex. And that is the deciding factor. Men can shag like rabbits till they drop off the perch. Women are different. I went right off physicality's yonks ago. My ex was too blame for that. So, knowing that men like a more active relationship its easy to use that as numero uno excuse to stay single & avoid the stares, the hints, the flashy flirting. We are so messed up as humans, it begs how we have come as far as we have ! Rightso, when I flip off the only one to know will be my cats or my dappy dog Maybe IL be sitting in my garden in summer with a cup of tea & the birds twittering

malickfan wrote:at the risk of embarrassing Eldo and dragging him into a conversation he'd rather not be a part of (sorry mate!) he was already aware of what is going on (after I randomly drunkenly messaged him one night) and has been helping me a bit with lots of useful advice (thanks once again mate).

No worries, man. I'm glad you're sticking through with it. Relationships are definitely a complicated matter, though on the subject of asexuality, demisexuality, and the whole ace spectrum there's someone much more qualified than me to talk about it, so...

#bainsignal

Ah, yes, as an asexual with depression I definitely have to jump in on a conversation like this. (And, of course, respond to the Bainsignal.) Pardon the absentee for showing up so impromptu for such a personal thing, but maybe my two cents could help and that'd be worth it.

First of all, I totally understand where you're coming from with the loneliness, Malick. I spent quite a while after I figured out I was asexual (so, about four or five years ago?) assuming I'd spend my life alone, at least when it came to romantic relationships. Which, most of the time, was fine, since I'd by then realized that my lack of interest in dating was, well, a lack of interest altogether (this is, for the record, surprisingly difficult to figure out when you don't know that's an option). But, yeah, there's still that emotional connection that people play up as being mostly found in romantic relationships, and on top of depression? In my experience, feeling left out of that emotional closeness sucks hard no matter how little your actual interest in the romantic/sexual packaging. I totally convinced myself I was fine with being single, while also sometimes really, really wishing I was capable of joining in the rest of humanity just because I wanted somebody to care about me.

Thing is, though, it's not totally hopeless, even as a complete, not-interested-in-romantic/sexual relationships, introverted, depressed nerd. Somehow - and I'm still not entirely sure how - I did find somebody who has been trying their hardest to convince me that I won't end up dying alone and surrounded by a ton of cats (though, for the record, I'd decided that they would be robot cats, which made made this fate slightly more bearable). It's not quite romantic - I've never been on a date either, probably never will, my only "romantic" relationship was online - but there's someone out there who, despite my best efforts to warn him off (citing both asexuality and being an emotional mess), has insisted that I am somebody worth caring about, and now that lonely future with the army of robot cats is a whole lot fuzzier than it used to be (pardon the pun, I didn't notice till after I wrote it and I choose to leave it in). Doesn't mean nothing will ever happen in the future that might ruin that, but - it's enough to make me think that, maybe, asexuality isn't the sentence to loneliness I thought it was.

Of course, demisexuality is a little bit of a different animal, but even if you're not on the ace spectrum at all, the point stands that a lack of romantic relationships or experience doesn't mean a lifetime of solitude. And, as a bonus, even messed-up teenage relationships aren't entirely hopeless. See, that online relationship was with my best friend (yeah, not so good at the RL relationships), while I was still trying to convince myself that I was definitely straight and I didn't realize asexuality was an option. Suffice to say, horrible idea, don't do it. And Eldo - the person in question, and who I have cleared this post with before sharing it - ended up also being that person who insisted on changing my views about asexuality meaning loneliness, from the moment I took the plunge and told him what I'd figured out about my disinterest in sex and romance, until now. And somehow it's working, depression, asexuality, and all. That's not really something I ever expected.

So, um, that's a lot of personal details, but I guess moral of the story is: you're not the only one who's been through all that, it's not completely hopeless, and Eldo is the best no matter what he tries to tell you. But also? Being without a romantic partner doesn't make you bad, or incapable of being cared about. Feeling lonely happens, and it sucks sometimes. And if you do happen to find the rare creature who wants you to not be lonely? Whether in the romantic sense or not, don't let your worries about driving them off with your mess keep you from trying things. With good communication and the right person, a lot's possible. And, in the meantime? Looks like you've got a community of people who care here; and that's worth a lot.

{{ Baingi! Your alive and well! Hold on, so who is buried under the shoe mountain behind the Tower of Lore?!

ps good to hear from you again and with wise words to share Though Eru knows how you lot get to be so wise so young, I'm still trying to get there! }}

I have a different perspective than Bain* given that I'm not ace, though I certainly have my share of hang-ups and have put myself and/or let myself be dragged into into a number of unhealthy sexual and romantic relationships in the past (during the years when Bain and I weren't in touch very much) largely due to a feeling that I didn't deserve anything better. A public thread isn't really the place to go into details about that, but I eventually came around on the idea that I could feel emotional intimacy without sleeping with someone (or the trappings of romance, for that matter), which helped me cut off one of my weirder misadventures. I'm still a fucking mess in a lot of ways but being close with someone who makes me feel better about myself rather than the opposite has made a big difference, even though I don't always know how to accept that gracefully since I have very little practice with it. I wouldn't have guessed the form things would take this time around, but once I get an idea in my head that I think might work I tend to be fairly stubborn and persistent, despite my natural disinclination to patience.



*Particularly on the question of whether I'm all that great, but that's neither here nor there.