Election Night 2016: The Passion of Cheeto Jesus

It's going to be very interesting to see what kind of relationship Trump's team builds with the press corps.
It looks like it's getting off to a rocky start.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Latest on the U.S. presidential transition (all times EST):

11:50 a.m.

President-elect Donald Trump has refused to let journalists travel with him to cover his first meeting with President Barack Obama.

The move broke from protocol intended to ensure that the public has a watchful eye on the nation's leader.

Trump flew from New York to Washington on his private jet without the so-called "pool" of reporters, photographers and television cameras that travel with presidents and presidents-elect.

Trump's meeting with Obama on Thursday was due to be reported by the pool of White House journalists who cover the president.

News organizations had tried for weeks to coordinate a pool of journalists who could travel with Trump immediately after Election Day if he won the election. But his campaign did not cooperate and his senior advisers refused Wednesday to discuss any such arrangements.

[quote="azriel"] A smug, self satisfying, ball scratching buffoon has quite easily tapped into a common idea & practically hypnotized the whole of America with some sort of evil faery glamour & is now choking on his own laughter whilst counting the inevitable dollars this will accrue him. I shake my head at how such a person came to be. He certainly jackbooted on the heads of decent people to get to where he is now. And, no doubt, a film will be made charting his "rags to riches" fame,


I agree with your thoughts here Azriel...

he does appear to have hypnotized many.

We as a nation desire to shake off the old political business as usual, myself included but my nation has signed on and are empowering who knows what.
He has never given us a plan, only his vague Oh it will be fantastic, bigly, super... and ...

I have looked for years for an outsider to step up... but Not him! Never ever...

Im not a t.v. watcher, never have been. So many many are however and I now see his evil plan more clearly. he won over the uneducated rural voters with his carefully crafted tv persona. Built this aura of power and presidential manner to fool the sheep.


He will rape our land, gut the EPA. Cause generations or millennia of harm environmentally, all in the shortsighted quest for $.

...a self delusional fool boldly going forth "Fixing" things, the economy... and on and on. Gutting all he sees after his quick snap judgements and no research. He can't read doesnt have the attention span of pile of sticks...

Such a nightmare on So many levels. I can't get over the shock and likely never will.
      As far as someone suggested about congress restraining him I hope thats true.

However, I look for them to go hog wild with their desired changes and position themselves to lay blame for any failures upon trump where possible.


Who knows maybe it is me thats wrong here. Perhaps my country saw something I missed and he really is a genius good hearted decent wiseman. I hope so.

The only thing I'm sure about is he will gut the EPA.

As far as travelling with the press corps to his first official duty as president elect to meet with the outgoing, I can sympathize with the guy. For someone who is not used to political coverage it will take time to re-orient to the idea that when going to what may be a tense meeting you have to invite folks to ride along with you.

We'll see.  Most of what he said he'd do is either complete pie-in-the-sky nonsense or stuff he won't get past congress.  But some things are completely in his bailiwick, and I may as well start lighting candles for the EPA.  (and FDA, and Department of Interior, etc).

(Environmental Protection Agency for those from outside the US of A).

Mrs Figg wrote:how does it feel to have the guy from the hot place as the most powerful man in the world. well I have had my fair share of living, its the kids I weep for. maybe its better this way, humans are too stupid to live, it will give the planet time to heal when these evil toxic people have all been hoisted by their own petard

You are wise in many ways dear mrs figg...

In general I m not one to promote or dispense doomspeak but if I was one to be looking out for the anti christ Trump appears to be a prime candidate.

Using the help of the self proclaimed "religious" to gain control of the big red button that sits awaiting the finger of the fool who would end the reign of man on earth.

Inside his dark selfpromoting heart so thirsty for approvial and worship lies hate and vengence to punish those who see through his tiny weak character flaws and wrong doing..." never admitting a mistake" is his way.

He strongly desires adoration and respect and approval that he has never deserved through his actions.
He has made it very clear that he is vengeful and will double or triple the pain others would dare to inflict upon him.

I too sometimes believe that the best thing for life on earth would be the ending of the rule of humans. Sadly, I agree with your words.

I generally choose to be positive when at all possible but I see so very little to be positive about him and the foul work he will unleash.

Music of the Ainur wrote:

Im not a t.v. watcher, never have been. So many many are however and I now see his evil plan more clearly. he won over the uneducated rural voters with his carefully crafted tv persona. Built this aura of power and presidential manner to fool the sheep.

I'm not a TV watcher either Music (unless you count DVD's) nor are most of my neighbors that I know of, and I live in a very rural county in Washington state which voted solidly D in state and congressional races, but voted for Trump for president.

I respect a lot of you points, but I'd like to point out that the "uneducated rural" trope is just as dismissive as the "uneducated Black" and "uneducated Hispanic" tropes.  I know a lot of these people, and for the most part we're neither uneducated or stupid.

The vote for Trump in many rural areas was a clear protest vote coming from years of perceived marginalization.  I voted 3rd party, as I have in every presidential election, for the same reason.

I do respect your opinion, but I'm afraid that perpetuating tropes like "uneducated rural" is only going to dig the hole deeper.

The racist  and sexist card is still played to great effect.  

My biggest disillusionment is for all those young women back in the late seventies and mid eighties - work colleagues and  supervisors - who informed my thoughts on equality, which I now think of as a 'fair go' or just the fight for a 'level playing field'... These women were smart, did not resort to irrational or angry rhetoric, they researched and knew their stuff, they informed me with rationality and a proper understanding of women's role and treatment through history...  

I don't  think for a moment women are any better than men generally speaking, some are smarter than others, some are more moral, some are stupid - yeah, like men in that way - but what's deeply disturbing is that the Trump situation has affirmed for me yet again that women have a long way to go to get a fair go across the board. And no women  are perfect. Show me a man who is. My biggest despair is the regress of women in Western society that this shows.

My daughter came over yesterday and could not understand why I hated and was so angry about Trump. My own daughter who was brought up by a Mum and Dad who believe fervently in a fair go across the board for women. She said I was being irrational in my hate. I said there are reasons to be angry; and anger does not always mean you're irrational. There are sometimes very good reasons to get angry. I feel like my Missus went through so much during her younger years for nothing. My own daughter does not get it! Sad.

I saw a youtube vid of a party years ago where Obama Poked fun at him and belittled him. The video showed trumps face twisting and his brain reeling in reaction to the insult. His eyes full of hate and injury in reaction to the attack upon him.

Obama roasts trump at Whitehouse party...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k8TwRmX6zs4

He doesn't want witnesses to the meeting with Obama because This will be a measure and first taste of REVENGE upon the foolish negro who dared to publicly shame him.

Make no mistake the orange tiny penised new god will be a vengeful one. This "born again christian" will quickly dispel any notion of him being a loving and uniting god.
Christ preached love and service to those less fortunate... " the greatest of these is Love", "turn the other cheek"...

He obviously fundamentally disagrees with the noble christian virtues.

I can't see trump being a selfless server of humanity. More likely he will work to rearrange the world so he and his spawn can get more, and show those detractors of his greatness what it pays to stand in his way or speak ill of the mighty tiny brained new god of the world.

 ten thousand times  little weinered  buffoon.

Dave wrote:the "uneducated rural" trope is just as dismissive as the "uneducated Black" and "uneducated Hispanic" tropes.  I know a lot of these people, and for the most part we're neither uneducated or stupid.

Both my parents grew up on farms, so I gritted my teeth every time the press bandied the phrase "uneducated rural voters".  

My mother had four sisters and one brother: the sisters all went to college [my grandmother being one of the few female college graduates of her time], lost their religion and became multi-cultural; he inherited the farm and kept religion and more insular values.  But he's smart as they come and nobody's fool.  

It's very clear in retrospect how far both parties have neglected the traditional backbone of America.  The democrats cater to the urban poor and progressive professionals; the Republicans cater to the business world and though they share many values with the rural population, they don't do anything for them; just spout moral platitudes and take the vote for granted.

Trump looked this group straight in the eye and talked a language which they largely recognized as stupid, but at least he looked at them and said some things that would help. And he looked like he'd bloody the nose of the political class that had ignored them for so long.  That at least is my reading of it.

Elizabeth Warren needs to run next time around.

""The final results may have divided us — but the entire electorate embraced deep, fundamental reform of our economic system and our political system," Warren told the AFL-CIO on Thursday. "Working families across this country are deeply frustrated about an economy and a government that doesn't work for them."

Warren laid out the principles she believes should govern Democrats during the Trump era: Standing up to bigotry, pushing for economic equality and combatting the influence of Wall Street."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/bernie-sanders-doesnt-rule-2020-white-house-run-173501146--election.html

The education aspect in demography is weird because whether or not someone has a college degree is generally used as a proxy for whether they are working or middle class, for the purpose of polling and statistics. We have such an impoverished vocabulary for discussing class in this country that working and middle are often the only ones brought up (outside of "the 1%" but that's not something polled as much). Anyway, a lot of liberal, urban, coastal, media, whatever stereotype you wanna use types seem to have trouble understanding that it's possible to make good money without a college education (eg, as a skilled tradesman). So you get all of these thinkpieces about people supporting Trump out of economic desperation when all the research we have suggests Trump voters are better off than average, in terms of income.

I think there is clearly a cultural divide between many parts of the country and while, as a socially liberal atheist living near a large city I fit many of the stereotypes associated with college education, I try very hard to remain aware of the fact that intelligent people can and do disagree wildly on a great many issues without being stupid, gullible, hoodwinked, etc. Actually I credit my college experience for helping me to realize this since I met a lot of fairly conservative people through the poli sci and history departments, even though I went to a state university. So like, I think that my beliefs are correct or else I wouldn't hold them, but I don't think that writing off people who disagree as stupid or backwards is a good way to achieve your political goals in a democracy.

David H wrote:

Music of the Ainur wrote:

Im not a t.v. watcher, never have been. So many many are however and I now see his evil plan more clearly. he won over the uneducated rural voters with his carefully crafted tv persona. Built this aura of power and presidential manner to fool the sheep.

I'm not a TV watcher either Music (unless you count DVD's) nor are most of my neighbors that I know of, and I live in a very rural county in Washington state which voted solidly D in state and congressional races, but voted for Trump for president.

I respect a lot of you points, but I'd like to point out that the "uneducated rural" trope is just as dismissive as the "uneducated Black" and "uneducated Hispanic" tropes.  I know a lot of these people, and for the most part we're neither uneducated or stupid.

The vote for Trump in many rural areas was a clear protest vote coming from years of perceived marginalization.  I voted 3rd party, as I have in every presidential election, for the same reason.

I do respect your opinion, but I'm afraid that perpetuating tropes like "uneducated rural" is only going to dig the hole deeper.

Forgive me and my inability to communicate concisely...

I never intended to suggest that the rural folks have a monopoly on acting like uneducated sheep. By or large I lump most all of us in that sad boat myself included.

I know many many fools who hold degrees from university. When I said uneducated I wasn't referring to a lack of school smarts.

In general I have much respect for the plain common sense of "uneducated" rural dwellers. As much respect generally than for the "rational illuminated "educated" population"
Of course there's no shortage of ignorant fools in the country side to be sure.

My bad to suggest I feel otherwise.

It shows my ignorace that I could be judged as suggesting city dwellers are somehow superior in wisdom.

I know we all did this wretched thing together and share the blame.

I realize a vote for trump was a vote against government as usual. Something I have been hoping for most of life. But, I can't see much wisdom in promoting this obviously lying self-serving little spoilled brat to become potus.

Giving him power and position to do who knows what. I blame no one group. I suppose I in part ignorantly regurgitated some analysts tripe when trying to grasp for some understanding of this disaster.

For years I have told friends that I believe that Anyone who Wants to be potus should automatically be disqualified. Who in their right mind could ever seek such a position.

I think that through exhaustive searching for people who demonstrate "true" wisdom  and decency in their acts and works that we should approach them and beg them to serve.  Saying something like, I know this is the last thing you want to do but we've come because we need your help...

"Education" in the traditional sense means very little in my estimation of Wisdom or worthiness. I know many "educated" fools and many Wise plain folk.

Please forgive my implied slam upon the rural dwellers.

Well, I wouldn't suggest using the phrase "plain folk" either...

Hillary has of course faced a great deal of misogyny throughout her career in public life and is subjected to greater scrutiny than male politicians are. I have no doubt that this played a role in many people's decision not to vote for her. However, I don't think takes away from the fact that Hillary was a deeply flawed candidate in many ways due to the baggage of scandals she carried with her, her connections to Wall Street in a time when that's unpopular, her devotion to free trade and neoliberal economics when the electorate is increasingly skeptical of such things, and her seeming ability to play by her own rules since aloofness and/or unrelatability is something that sinks male politicians as well (cf. Al Gore).

[EDIT: I should say perceived aloofness or unrelatability. And Trump's life is certainly not something that most Americans can relate to, but he succeeded at downplaying that in his campaign by emphasizing his opposition to "the establishment" and their policies, although that opposition seems to have been largely invented for the purposes of his campaign, given his many contradictory statements in previous years and decades.]

Before the election I thought there was a good chance that Hillary was going to win white women because of Trump's actions, comments, and general grossness but this seems not to have happened. In general, Democrats do better with female voters than male and Clinton did win a majority of the woman vote, though not as much as Obama (the difference seems to be mainly due to the larger third party vote this time). However, this is driven mainly by non-white women. When it comes to the Rust Belt states, where white voters and especially white voters without college degrees are more decisive, the anticipated wave of support didn't materialize. Romney won white women by IIRC 14 points; Trump did slightly worse but won them by 10. And he won white women without college degrees by 28 points. This was not totally unexpected since Republicans usually do better with white voters, but it compounds with other factors like Hillary somewhat underperforming Obama's numbers with non-white voters and decreased Democratic turnout in many areas.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-exit-polls-how-donald-trump-won-the-us-presidency/

No worries, Music! I wasn't meaning to single you out personally.  It was just a good opportunity to highlight what I believe is an important lesson of this election. Thanks for giving me the chance!

I do think it's strange how little discussion I've heard nationally about the fact that the 2-party system did it's best to offer us the illusion of a choice between two celebrities from New York, 3,000 miles away from here.  Wouldn't you think that a country this large and diverse might be better served by offering more than 2 choices?

halfwise wrote:Well, I wouldn't suggest using the phrase "plain folk" either...  

....unless you're Amish of course

As far as the racism angle goes, I do think that endorsing Trump involves some degree of privilege insofar as ignoring the toxic environment that he has fostered with his comments and actions about women and ethnic and religious minorities, though at the same time it'd be pretty rich for me as a white male to lecture female and/or non-white Trump supporters (who are out there, as noted above) on how their support for him is socially irresponsible.

Anyway, the "deplorable" Trump supporters are definitely out there and Trump's success has emboldened white supremacists in particular which is worrying and needs to be pushed back on. However, I don't think that "literally every" Trump supporter is a frothing racist (as I've seen a number of people suggest on Facebook and some of the more liberal sites I visit). For my part I found Trump's bigotry to be impossible to overlook (though it was only one of many reasons why I didn't vote for him), but if voters are tarred by every bad thing the candidate they support has done, then I have the blood of thousands of Afghan and Pakistani civilians on my hands for gritting my teeth and voting for Obama in 2012 despite my opposition to his foreign policy in general and the drone program in particular. I still feel that Obama was wrong about this, but I voted for him because I thought he was better than the alternative. I disagree with Trump supporters that Trump was better than Hillary, but I recognize that there are a variety of reasons why people might come to that conclusion, and frothing racism is only one of them.

While I don't mean to suggest that someone voting for Obama means they can't be racist, I do think it's worth noting that Trump flipped six states that went for Obama twice, and he did this despite white people being a lower percentage of the electorate than they were during either of Obama's elections. I don't think that would've happened if the alt right was as big a percentage of Trump's support as is sometimes implied.

{{{Anyway that's enough privileged ramblings from me for one sitting }}}

Words... they have different meanings to each of us as I'm aware.
To me plainfolk is an honorable term. Someone who has commonsense and not mesmerized by shuckster tricks and posers.

Someone who can see through self promoting charlatans.

Perhaps I have again demonstrated my ignorance and inability to communicate my hearts feelings.
Wriiten words can't communicate the feeling behind the letters and symbols as I have learned by experience.

I'm not one who goes on line to preach my views. This site has seen 99. /' of my online rants. I feel no need to make myself appear taller by taking the heads off of others. I'm quick to admit that I don't hold some special wisdom and don't aim to win support for my flawed understanding.

I just HAD to release some pressure before my heart exploded.
Selfishly I have created more ignorance and woe perhaps through not being more discriminating in my word choice.
I will attempt to stop now.

I must add however that reading the thoughts of you decent people here has helped to alleviate some of my pain.

Health and prosperity to you all

David H wrote:No worries, Music! I wasn't meaning to single you out personally.  It was just a good opportunity to highlight what I believe is an important lesson of this election. Thanks for giving me the chance!

I do think it's strange how little discussion I've heard nationally about the fact that the 2-party system did it's best to offer us the illusion of a choice between two celebrities from New York, 3,000 miles away from here.  Wouldn't you think that a country this large and diverse might be better served by offering more than 2 choices?

Amen to that! The two party system fails us again and again.. illusion indeed!

How can anyone possibly believe either of those "choices" were the best america had to offer?

Peace and happy trails to all.

Forumshire is a good place to talk these things through, and every one of us is sorting things out right now. We are all basically civil human beings here, while at the same time there are enough points of view that you never feel like you're in an echo chamber.

Your words served your purpose quite well, Music. As I said at the beginning I do respect your thoughts and opinions, so please take my comments as an offer of respectful discussion (something that's often hard to find on the internet )

David H. Thank you for your calm centered thoughts.

I find myself thrown out of my centered place by all this...

My wife just shared this article which I find has helped me to perhaps view this world changing event through a clearer lens. It does make some sense out of the how he could've been elected.

I hope others will find it helpful as well...

https://theintercept.com/2016/11/09/democrats-trump-and-the-ongoing-dangerous-refusal-to-learn-the-lesson-of-brexit/

A pretty good article, though the language is a bit hyperbolic (in my experience if you replace words that imply malice with words that imply indifference you are closer to the truth).

I think the more insightful article is the one referenced by the first article written by Chris Arnade. If he's who I think he is (and all indications are he is) then I went to graduate school with him. A guy who took his physics PhD to Wall street to make a boatload of money as an analyst, then abruptly quit to downsize and interview the downtrodden of the country. A good hearted dude who wanted to use his money for good (I think he may have lost his wife in the process).

halfwise wrote:

I think the more insightful article is the one referenced by the first article written by Chris Arnade.  If he's who I think he is (and all indications are he is) then I went to graduate school with him.  A guy who took his physics PhD to Wall street to make a boatload of money as an analyst, then abruptly quit to downsize and interview the downtrodden of the country.  A good hearted dude who wanted to use his money for good (I think he may have lost his wife in the process).

Reading it now, thanks.  

And btw it does look to be written by your classmate. Here is a link to his bio.
Sounds to be someone I should read. Not often do I hear first hand recommendations of journalist.
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/chris-arnade

I wonder what people here think of john pilger?
I just watched his take on trumps win. I am not familar with him but for a few things I've seen.
I know nothing about his personal quality of judgement or if he's speaking truth but he sure claims knowledge that sounds horrific if even half true.

I haven't read any wikileaks material other than the news references I have seen. I suppose I need to make time to do so.

Is he chomsky like I wonder.

Perhaps I should read him and see his view.

Be well

I guess Trump is the last roar of the Silverback before he goes instinct, the instinct that says I am off but I will take you all with me to hell. Its being going on since the Ancient Egyptians were buried with their harem and their worldly goods, its the same king or emperor who sacked cities and took slaves, its the antithesis of liberal feminist tolerant Obama, its the antithesis of the feminine, its pure unadulterated alpha male power in all its 'glory' after 40 odd years of the male being marginalised (perception of if not in fact, as regards rust belt traditional male jobs perhaps they were) Hillary was a step too far. its almost like two tribes, this is simplistic in the extreme and not very sophisticated but its the impression I got looking at a film by Discovery channel on the great apes.

Mrs Figg wrote:I guess Trump is the last roar of the Silverback before he goes instinct,

Why do you think it's the last? When I look at the World it seems as if the Silverbacks are doing just fine...

Music of the Ainur wrote:

halfwise wrote:

I think the more insightful article is the one referenced by the first article written by Chris Arnade.  If he's who I think he is (and all indications are he is) then I went to graduate school with him.  A guy who took his physics PhD to Wall street to make a boatload of money as an analyst, then abruptly quit to downsize and interview the downtrodden of the country.  A good hearted dude who wanted to use his money for good (I think he may have lost his wife in the process).

Reading it now, thanks.  

And btw it does look to be written by your classmate. Here is a link to his bio.
Sounds to be someone I should read. Not often do I hear first hand recommendations of journalist.
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/chris-arnade

Cool! I like his perspective, especially now that I know he's only one degree removed from Forumshire!
I'll have to go back and read some of his earlier articles when I get the chance.