Tolkien related video's.

I forgot how cute that was.

Things new to me:
1. Boromir I was killed by a nazgul blade
2. The note that the Nazgul's rings were held by Sauron, not by them (where does this tidbit come from?)
3. The interesting contradiction that at one point it is mentioned that the Nazgul can't be killed unless Sauron is destroyed since they are only spirits, versus the death of the Witch King.

Did Tolkien write anything about the Nazgul outside of LotR and appendices? All we get in Unfinished Tales is the hunt for the ring.

{{ 1. I knew this but no idea where from.
2. Theres a line in LotR's somewhere that says something along the lines of the Nine were totall yunder Saurons domination and will because he 'held the Nine'. This would explain why Frodo sees no rings on fingers when he sees the Nazgul in the wraith world and also how they got their rings back from the Ford after they were physically destroyed, they never had them with them.
3. Tolkien is never exactly clear for my money if Merry's stab undid the spells making him unkillable, or if it only undid the spells making it very hard to harm or destroy his physical body- meaning his spirirt would have fled back to Mordor and his personal Ring held by Sauron. I personally think it the former however, the spells preventing his death were broken by Merry's sword stab allowing Arwen to finish to him! }}

The Witch King didn't show up at the battle at the Black Gates, suggesting it was a total snuff job.

1) Appendix A: even the Witch-king feared Boromir, but he received a morgul-wound which shortened his days "and he became shrunken with pain and died twelve years after his father."

2) There are a number of quotes which refer to Sauron holding the Nine, despite that it's said the Nine the Nazgul keep (Council of Elrond). Here's one of the strongest, in my opinion:

"They were by far the most powerful of his servants, and the most suitable for such a mission, since they were entirely enslaved to their Nine Rings, which he now himself held; they were quite incapable of acting against his will, ...'

JRRT Unfinished Tales



3) I think it's true that the WK could have returned had Sauron not been destroyed (I think Gandalf hints at in the books), but the author of The Battle of the Pelennor Fields already knows that he was "brought to nothing" on the field of battle, as well as never being able to become physical again, so the text can say [concerning the WK's voice]: "and was never heard again in that age of this world" before the reader gets to the Ring's destruction.


Yep. I think the Nine were physical/invisible, and that the spell that was broken (as described in the books) "knit" the Witch-king's will to his sinews -- in other words, break that spell, and the WK can no longer will his body to defend himself from Eowyn's strike.

In my opinion it's a bit (though not really) like a deer "caught" in some headlights.

{{ Thanks Elthir-=always handy to have a Lore Master in his tower- good to see the crwos back too!

The UT quote is actually the one I was thinkng of that I wrongly ascribed to LotR's.

From theidea that Merry's blow broke the spell knitting will and sinew then presumably after Eowyns blow he was simply incoproreal and utterly without form, so would presumably have fled back to Mordor as a mere spiriit unable to maintain a physical form even in the wraith world.
Though one wonders then why he could not inhabit a corpse (the Pellenor was after all covered in them) in much the same way he encouraged the evil spirits to inhabit the barow-downs. }}

Hmm. Perhaps the WK's spirit was too impotent at this point?

My notion that the Nine can return if Sauron is still in the game is based on Gandalf's explanation after the Company leaves Rivendell, but I have to admit, if that is again what Gandalf means when he speaks to Legolas about shooting down a Nazgul . . .

. . . it's a bit odd to me to seemingly downplay this: Yeah great shot . . . you got his steed . . . he'll be back.

Okay. But still!

Since so many who saw the films never read the books this video probably fills a gap.

{{ Thats me sorted for stuff to watch at work tonight- cheers Chris! }}

That's a very good guess about Denethor's final madness linked to Sauron's temporary capture of Frodo. Makes me angry all over again at how the film ruined and stomped all over the character of Denethor.

Interesting how the narrator in the second clip pronounces "Durin" => "jDurin"

Funny, I never thought about how you feed a bunch of people living in a cave. The clip never addresses this, but now it's bothering me. When they first start mining they'll have nothing to trade for food, and it's not clear there were active settlements nearby at any period except for Eregion. Did they send out hunting parties every day to feed thousands? That would have decimated the wildlife.

halfwise wrote:That's a very good guess about Denethor's final madness linked to Sauron's temporary capture of Frodo.  Makes me angry all over again at how the film ruined and stomped all over the character of Denethor.

Interesting how the narrator in the second clip pronounces "Durin" => "jDurin"

Funny, I never thought about how you feed a bunch of people living in a cave.  The clip never addresses this, but now it's bothering me.  When they first start mining they'll have nothing to trade for food, and it's not clear there were active settlements nearby at any period except for Eregion.  Did they send out hunting parties every day to feed thousands?  That would have decimated the wildlife.

They grow mushrooms of course! I mean obviously.

Oh, duh.

Out

What? where does this info about Theoden knowing Elvish come from? Because Gondor used it I suppose.