Star Wars [2]

Lancebloke wrote:OK... so I read from Petty's review of the first 20 mins up to the sexist argument and skipped from there so may have missed some important points.... but....!

Petty - some general observations you make seem to contradict. You complain that there are too many similarities with ANH yet when there is a difference in the way they try to tell other bits you moan!

For my 2 pennies (while I am spending a penny at work) I agree that the major plot points in TFA are too similar to ANH and I said so in my review. Starkiller base in particular seems very contrived and served no purpose other than to be blown up in glorious technicolor.

On the other hand, I feel the characterisation was done well in general. In particular I think Rey is so elusive because there are going to be revelations about her character in the future.

Re Finn, I can completely see how he got to where he did. The only agreement I would have is that his buddies seemed to not notice him having a meltdown. Phasmaand Ren did however and that could be explained by training to carry out orders without question versus the overlords watching the bigger picture. Finn is the proverbial 'ghost in the machine' here.

Will add more when I need a bigger poo.

Ringdrotten wrote:The female stormtrooper captain reminded me of this

Pettytyrant101 wrote:yet when there is a difference in the way they try to tell other bits you moan! - Lance

My complaint is not that they made differences Lance, but that as is beggars comparison to the original the differences they make feel shallow, contrived, plot motivated not character motivated and to be of a poorer writing quality than the original choices they have diverged from.

If they are going to make changes they at least still need to be on a character and writing par with the film they are ripping off/honouring, not worse.

'I think Rey is so elusive because there are going to be revelations about her character in the future.'

That may be true- but it means nonetheless that when we meet he rin this she comes across as sketchily drawn and not terribly well thought out. The abilities and personality she has all seem to be there because she will need them in the plot later, and in very obvious ways -like her ability to be able to pilot a ship like the Falcon- Lukes excuse was not great either for being able to hop into an xwing and fly it right off, but at least there was an excuse and one which tied into his personality and character as it was when we met him- he flew for kicks because his life was boring- someone has clearly at least thought about the problem and addressed it in the scripting.

You seem to really dislike the fact she can fly the Millenium Falcon. and considering we see her ability to fly stuff right there in front of your face, and the fact she has spent her life being able to make-do and mend all manner of technical gizmos, your criticism of her is just empty nit-picking for the sake of it.


They didn't bother with any of that sort of thing in the new one. Or her liking, empathy and compassion for droids, which seems to exist only because the plot needs her to keep the droid.

this is not important and has no relevance to anything other than pointless nit-picking.


If you compare how Rey ends up with a droid to how Luke ends up with his its clear the first was at pains to make it seem an organic series of events leading up to that, and at pains to give Luke motivation for having the droids and for going out after R2- he has a personal stake in it he needs those droids to take up the slack on the farm so he can get out of there.
Rey is just randomly nice to a droid she randomly stumbles across in the middle of the desert and lets randomly follow her home.

Actually you are failing to see the connection. She has to save the droid because the droid is of VITAL importance to life and death of millions of lives. The droid doesn't belong to her but Poe, who is a future important character as it is he who saves everyone. Connecting the three characters is VITAL for the plot.

The care to make an organic plot is just not there- characters and events in the new film only seem to happen because thats the plot, so they happen.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:does that not tie in with Obi-Wan and his 'on my experience there is no such thing as coincidence' line? That would suggest the force has gotten itself involved and that they were meant to meet... ?- Lance

Interesting point- but I would say no on the basis that the original film has that line in it, inviting the viewer to consider such a possibility- whereas the new film has no such equivalent line in relation to the meeting of main character and droid and makes no attempt to try to make the viewer consider that notion as a possibility.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Actually you are failing to see the connection. She has to save the droid because the droid is of VITAL importance to life and death of millions of everyone. Connecting the three characters is VITAL for the plot.- Figg

You just mademy point for me.

No you just nixed your point. You are changing the goal posts to suit you.

You shouldnt see the vital ploit points untilt he stroy teller wantrs you to connect the dots or have it revealed to you.

which is exactly what happens

The proof is in the reaction.

Good story reaction-

'Oh after (series of events x,y,z) she has ended up with thee Droid with the secret map in its head, now ive got to know her character it will this will be interesting to see what she does when she finds that out'

Bad story reaction-

'Oh she has met the droid with there plans in its head in a random event that starts offcreen because its vital to the plot they meet.'

You shouldn't be thinking things happen because they are vital to the plot they do. That's not good story telling.

As you are the only one who has a problem with her being able to speak droid only you thinks her meeting the droid or being able to communicate with it is anything other than natural straightforward storytelling. you see everything from your distorted view. Nobody else has a problem with Rey making friends with the droid because there aren't any problems with it. its very simple.

Its the disconnect I htink between them trying to connect the bulletin points from A to B of the story- how do we get all these bit sin place for this scene, then how do we get to this next big scene.

And the problem lies in trying to either follow or mirror the story points of a completely different film- the first SW film. So what they end up doing is having to artificially manoeuvre everything to where it needs to be to remind you of that scene in SW. And they have not managed to successfully cover up the moving parts.

For example for Rey to mirror luke they have to establish certain things, or at least they choose to- she has to be a bit of loner like Luke, she has to be disgruntled with her current life, but have a reason to be stuck in that one place.
So for Rey to answer those they just start her on a planet that looks almost identically to Tattoine. They make her a scavenger so she can be out on her own. And they give her the background story of waiting on her family to return to keep her in one place.

and the problem with that is?

But they dont give the time or care SW does to showing you this- its what ten- twenty minutes of film between Luke meeting the droids and him visiting Obi for the first time.

it was a bit sluggish if I remember rightly. This is a completely different set up neither better or worse, just different. As I mentioned in another post.

Like her meeting of the droid everything is done in shorthand. But without the ground work it doesn't do anything like as good a job as establishing character.

There was more than enough ground work. As I mentioned in another post.

And because it doesn't have the ground work it has no cover for when it needs to manipulate the characters into position for plot reasons and so it looks like what it is- for plot reasons.

David H wrote:I just heard a short story on the radio about the Chinese premier of TFA. Apparently China knows almost nothing about Star Wars, often confusing it with Star Trek which is much better known.  The original trilogy came out when foreign films were still rarely allowed, and the prequel trilogy created nothing but yawns and head-scratching.  (They've removed Chewy from the poster because it might confuse people )

So.... there are now 1.3 billion people who will be meeting the Star Wars universe for the first time!  I wonder what they'll make of it all?

The more I think about this, the more this seems to explain the "reboot" approach Disney/Abrams took, and many of the editing choices.

Eldorion wrote:I just noticed Mrs Figg's new location tag and I wanted to express my appreciation of it here.

Spoiler: