Sauron in the Hobbit

Mrs Figg wrote: Dodo? You mean eaten by sailors?

That WAS an encrypted message, Mrs Figg! Are you a witch or something?

{{{And if so, do you wear one of those diaphanous long dresses that can be seen through as you dance around under the stars at night during your women-only rituals? You know, the ones that can only to be viewed by men through binoculars from a safe distance - not that I would but}}}

{{{Not odd, Petty, but a Beautiful Witch, I fear! }}}

Not at this time of the year I dont, bits would freeze and drop off.

And that wouldn't be nice, Preciouss, no, it wouldn't? You know, you should visit a place with a proper sumer. Your summers sound like our winters. Excuse me, I'm popping off to sit beside the pool...

GGrrrrrrr! I want and so I can feel and get outside

Actually, it's wet and cold just now -- I just had this incredible urge to torture you, Mrs Figg... maybe because I'm angry because it's cold and wet and I wanted to share the gloom around...

Have a few buckies Orwell old chap! Easy there!

I got to thinkin about some campy old horror flicks, and while I can't remember names really, I do remember a few decent "in the middle of reforming himself" type baddies here and there. Even still, I think that would be a particularly dumb way to go about it. Side note, wasn't most of the Necromancer's power based in just simply being evil and drawing evil things to it? i.e. the spiders and orcs and such. If thats the case hSauron could be nothin but ashes and a thought. Really quite the conundrum. Makes ya wonder why PJ decided to do it in the first place.

Herbethor wrote: Makes ya wonder why PJ decided to do it in the first place.

To expand Gandalf's role, add enough filler to make 2 movies, and provide a stronger implied link to LotR. PJ is making movies first, interpreting the Hobbit second.

But not to worry. We're counting on Petty to edit all that out for us.

Herbethor wrote:I got to thinkin about some campy old horror flicks, and while I can't remember names really, I do remember a few decent "in the middle of reforming himself" type baddies here and there. Even still, I think that would be a particularly dumb way to go about it. Side note, wasn't most of the Necromancer's power based in just simply being evil and drawing evil things to it? i.e. the spiders and orcs and such. If thats the case hSauron could be nothin but ashes and a thought. Really quite the conundrum. Makes ya wonder why PJ decided to do it in the first place.

Hi Herbethor. Nice to have a vegetatrian here!

I don't think he'll want such a subtle Necromancer... He doesn't believe in remote brooding insidious evil - he likes vivid lights,firey swordfights and amazing acrobatics.

How do you know he's a vegetation?

OH I GET IT, very clever Orwell. Very clever.

Welcome to Forumshire, Herbethor! It's great to have you here. I think that as the Necromancer, Sauron was supposed to have certain supernatural abilities (he had practiced some form of sorcery and/or necromancy back in the First Age, as recounted in The Silmarillion) but it's left vague enough that PJ could go off in many different directions without being too outrageous.

Ally wrote:How do you know he's a vegetation?

I never said he was a vegetation, Ally? Now I think you've gone and scared him off! Alllleeee!

In the first age he messed around with shape shifting, vampire bat, trying to be the greatest wolf etc.

Maybe PJ will give that a go?

I have said in another forum that I expect him to be revealed as Sauron during the WC meeting. Something must happen for Gandalf to recognise that he is Sauron and not just some other evil... maybe that is the clue to what he will be portrayed as, or maybe the 1 or more nazgul will also be there to talk to him?

I think the giveaway will be the monogrammed towels in the Dol Guldor dungeons....

I'm not sure how he will handle the reveal. Subtly is not a PJ strong point. You get the strong impression from Gandalfs words and the Tale of Years that they never twigged it was him until they made there move against him and he feigned retreat to get to Mordor. Even when Gandalfs entered the dungeons of Dol Guldur he never knew it was Sauron- however given the trailer hints we will see that trip into the dungeons by Gandalf I would not be suprised if something happens there to if not reveal who the Necromancer is to seriously sow the seeds of suspicion in Gandalf, leading to him calling the WC to deal with it- and Saruman rebutting Gandalfs aguments. Thats my guess anyway.

Huh? I thought it was during the visit to Dol Guldor that Gandalf confirmed it was Sauron. As usual I'm at work trying to avoid work so I don't have the books at hand. I think it wasn't mentioned in the Hobbit because either Tolkien himself didn't know yet who the Necromancer was or within the confines of the story it was just good policy not to spread around this type of knowledge.

I shall have to call in a Lore check- or bloody well look it up myself!

-did a check Halfwise- he doesnt find out for sure but stongly suspects- he goes in to try to detemrine it and whatever he finds worries him enough that the Wise decide to form the WC to deal with it.
Its the 'whatever he finds' bit thats up for graps- I cant find anything which says exactly what it was he found in there that made him sure enough that they formed the Council- could just have been something Thrain said to him, or could have been more. Thats the problem, we have an outline but PJ has to create all the details- and I just dont trust him on that score. Never again after LotR's.

I think he got a postive I.D on the Tango during his second recon misson.

Sorry... watched Act of Valour the other day and was having flashbacks.

just had a thought: presumably Olorin would have crossed paths with Sauron before the cut-ups pulled up stakes and decamped to middle earth. May have been depending on personality traits only he would have direct experience with.

(Sauron obviously would snore like a buzzsaw, etc.)

monogrammed towels, would it be S, N or A ?
does Ferguson put rose petals in your bath by any chance?

A??

Anatar or whatever he was called when he was pretty.

Yes anna ('gift' compare Melyanna [Melian]) + tar ('lord'), 'Gift-lord, Lord of gifts'

But would Sauron simply use the tehta for a or write Annatar out in full? And one could write this as nntr on a bath towel, since when writing Quenya the vowel a could be left out.

And since a Quenya word cannot begin with nn one would guess an a precedes it; and one could know whether or not a vowel should go between nn by the use of a modifying sign (a bar) to indicate -nn-. And one could also know whether or not a vowel should go between n and t if the tengwa anto is not employed (if it was, then nt would be the sound sequence). And the cluster tr seems to be rare, if found at all in Quenya, so one would likely imagine an a between these consonants, as -tar.

Now Aragorn mentioned something about Sauron not using the runes, but he never noted whether or not the tengwar could be used to make a towel really pop.

I doff my hat to your knowledge Elthir and fascinating as usual (and I mean that without any sarcasm- I love language and its construction, real or feigned as the Prof might say).

And shame on Aragorn, how can he possibly hope to be a totally hoopy frood if he doesn't know where his towel is?