Doctor Who [11]

how is that different from Peter Jackson's purpose in the long, rambling AUJ intro you so skilfully cut to the bone? - Dave

Oh thats easy- the intent is largely the same but PJ has no purpose, there is no greater thematic set up going on, no purpose. Frodo and Bilbo cameos serve no purpose but to be there- oh look its Frodo.
Moffats use of Vastra and co is firstly as a point of continuity, its no coincidence they are the characters which most appeal to the younger demography, the second is the words themselves and those wider themes it sets its stall out with- and I wonder if you might view the first half hour of feelings differently by series end.

'and needs a much firmer editor (not unlike PJ).'

I don't think thats what it shows- as usual Moffat is at the mercy of his task masters- in this case BBC Worldwide getting the go ahead to put Deep Breath into the cinema, meaning Moffat had go back and fill it out to the running time required- some scenes are obvious padding, such as Strax' medical of Clara.
I don't like when this sort of thing interferes with the creative process, but its a sad fact of life.

I wonder if you might view the first half hour of feelings differently by series end.

I'll let you know, but even if my opinion softens by the end, I'll still fault the first half hour for being slow and heavy-handed.

Every Intro to Writing class stresses that the first thing any book or movie must do is engage the reader/viewer in the characters and story as quickly as possible.  First chapters are critical, and it's a classic beginner's mistake to have the characters talk too much about themselves. It doesn't matter how good the last chapter is if the reader is never given enough incentive to read beyond the first chapter.

I do think it's interesting to note that Mrs. Figg, my friend and I all seem to have had pretty much the same reaction to the intro, Mrs Figg being a devoted Dr Who watcher, my friend having never seen it before, and I being a casual viewer.  You'd think those would be 3 demographics that Moffat would be interested in engaging, besides the young viewers who already love Madam Vastra and Strax. If so, he seems to have missed the mark.

As for studios and padding, I think we've pretty thoroughly discussed that regarding PJ as well.  It's not a coincidence that many movie makers' best works are their earlier works with small budgets and tight timelines, when the studios are asking them to do more with less, rather than less with more.  

I do think it's interesting to note that Mrs. Figg, my friend and I all seem to have had pretty much the same reaction to the intro- David

Well in fairness Figg hates every word Moffat writes so not sure that one really counts as any sort of objective guide.
It did well at the box office and in critical reception, and was seen favourably overall by fans on the major Who boards.
I don't think its perfect, or anything like the best series 8 has to offer, but all new Doctor regen episodes (including classic) are a bit odd to be honest as most of the episode the main character spends not being himself as a result of the regen.
11th Hours is probably the best of NUWHo- 10's is pretty dodgy and he isnt in most of it.
I am struggling to think of a classic Doctor first episode after regen that is also a great episode in its own right. Spearhead from Space, maybe.

Petty wrote:I am struggling to think of a classic Doctor first episode after regen that is also a great episode in its own right. Spearhead from Space, maybe.

Interesting! I haven't seen enough to have an opinion, but it seems to me it should be possible to write a good first episode despite the obvious challenges.

Well in fairness Figg hates every word Moffat writes so not sure that one really counts as any sort of objective guide.

I'm sure glad Eldo gave us this sofa! I wouldn't feel safe on the Who thread without it!

In fairness she only hates the crappy bits of his writing. Not her fault there's so much of it.

And I see web references are OK again! That's convenient!

Dave wrote:
I'm sure glad Eldo gave us this sofa! I wouldn't feel safe on the Who thread without it!

It IS surprisingly durable... Kevlar? Mithrill blend? Maybe there's a brand or something here of we take another look.

I haven't seen enough to have an opinion- David

Now you can! (Well, eventually) I put them all on there, every single regen story (save 1-2 as its sadly lost) - so the final story of a Doctor and the first of the new- so you would have a comparison to make to the 11-12 regen story

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
I am struggling to think of a classic Doctor first episode after regen that is also a great episode in its own right. Spearhead from Space, maybe.

Isn't Power Of The Daleks considered a classic?, admittedly I haven't watched any of the reconstructions, and an audio only version probably isn't that demonstrative and or/interesting for a casual viewer, but I've heard it's a classic.

I thought Spearhead from Space was kinda average, and far too long for the story it told, the 11th Hour gets my vote for best post regen story (and series premiere for New Who).

Amarië wrote: Maybe there's a brand or something here of we take another look.

Hey! Careful with your elbows!

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Now you can! (Well, eventually) I put them all on there, every single regen story (save 1-2 as its sadly lost) - so the final story of a Doctor and the first of the new- so you would have a comparison to make to the 11-12 regen story

Cool! If only there were time....

Well, this really is quite straight forward I would tend to think. Petty is a big fan of Doctor Who and Moffats work, so he is prepared to excuse a lot of things about it other people perhaps might not. Figg, while in general a Who fan, has serious misgivings about Moffat and his work, and as such is prepared to let him get away with nothing. And there's your reason for the conflict. The reality and their opinions are probably a bit closer than either would care to admit..

Okay, I'm getting behind here now too.

Three is a bit...um...cozy behind one sofa.

NOTICE TO ADMINISTRATORS:
More furniture in the Dr Who thread please!

Oh, I don't know. It's kind of cosy too.

Err... David.. you wouldn't mind switching places would you?

Amarië wrote:In fairness she only hates the crappy bits of his writing. Not her fault there's so much of it.

too true!

Well in fairness Figg hates every word Moffat writes so not sure that one really counts as any sort of objective guide. petty


I always give him the benefit of the doubt. As funnily enough I actually want to enjoy watching Who again. Unfortunately it bores me. I tried watching Dark Water the other day, it was relatively ok until they got to the Nethersphere and then it went all clunky and ground to a halt. it was quite painfully bad. I switched it off because it was over-hyped rubbish.

David H wrote:Three is a bit...um...cozy behind one sofa.

NOTICE TO ADMINISTRATORS:
More furniture in the Dr Who thread please!

Here's one for small fights... right, we don't have small fights.



Hmmmm...

But every room needs an elephant, right?

Amarië wrote:

But every room needs an elephant, right?

WOOO HOOOO!!! We get an Elephant!!!!! SCORE!!!!!    

I think I'll take her for a couple laps around Forumshire just to introduce her to her new home

Who knew the actual elephant in the room would be so diverting. It's a wonder anyone ever notices the elephant in the room..

What elephant?

there must be a woolly mammoth in Moffats room.

We gotta keep the elephant !

Amarië wrote:What elephant?

Err.. the elephant? Or the elephant in the room?

As funnily enough I actually want to enjoy watching Who again.- Figg

I cant say I am convinced of that- I think you sit down to watch already sure you will hate it because its Moffat- I'll be surprised if you ever like any Who outside of RTD.



1 DAY TO GO!!!!!!!!


And where's my elephant gun?!

Not on youtube so far unless you sign up with a credit card for it (even though it costs nothing) but found it here, the 6 minute prologue to series 9- The Doctors Meditation-

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/watch-the-doctors-meditation-76077.htm