Re: Doctor Who [11]

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:02 pm

Trailer for series 13 of classic, a very good series of stories in fact, but the main reason I put it up is that it has some similarities with the upcoming new series- both feature Zygons (series 13 indeed is the only appearance of the Zygons in classic Who) and it also featured the first appearance of Karn and the Sisterhood.
The budgets might be higher, the cinematography much better, the show no longer as studio bound, but watching the two trailers you can see its the same show after all this time (I would argue NU and Classic are more alike now under Moffat than at any other time)-

by Mrs Figg Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:52 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:whats the iplayer? - Figg

The BBC iplayer- for watching BBC progs online- http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer

But you have to be in the UK to access it, or set your pc up so it thinks you are in the UK, I also believe you can get it as an app for some devices too- not sure how that works or if you have to pay for it however.

If you use Chrome, Firefox or Android OS then you can use Hola to trick the iplayer into thinking you are in the UK- just go to - http://hola.org/ - download the plugin for your browser- go to the bbc page- you will get redirected or get an error message, click on the new hola icon you should have somewhere on your browser, select UK and you are good to watch iplayer.

I have no idea how safe Hola is, what other sneaky progs it might install or otherwise- but plenty folk seem to use it. As with all net things- use at your own risk, or research it on google before deciding and installing.

hmm sounds a bit dodgy. I don't mind dodgy, as long as it doesn't as you say, install weird stuff. I may try that other link you once gave me, and see if it still works. scratch

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:31 pm

I had a read up and I wouldn't install it, it works through using your pc as a peer to peer set up, so in theory someone could be uploading stuff via your apparent ip address or browsing stuff with apparently your ip address, it will look like you doing it- not good if someone is up to something dodgy.

by malickfan Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:32 pm

Episode Titles for Series 9 revealed:

Doctor Who [11] - Page 21 12029599_1205098226170869_1720441300577065084_o

And A VERY SPOILERY overview of the series by Moffat:

Spoiler:

Sounds very promising overall, and it seems at least some of the rumours/leaks are going to be true bounce

...though I can't help but wonder if they are getting too serious with the drama this year, casual audiences tune it for a hour of lighthearted fun or scares, and a series mostly comprised of 2 parters may be a bit risky...

by Mrs Figg Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:28 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I had a read up and I wouldn't install it, it works through using your pc as a peer to peer set up, so in theory someone could be uploading stuff via your apparent ip address or browsing stuff with apparently your ip address, it will look like you doing it- not good if someone is up to something dodgy.

fook! glad you told me. Shocked

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:31 pm

Try here-

https://www.filmon.com/tv/bbc-one

by Mrs Figg Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:36 pm

nice. I will try that next Saturday. I am pissed off to be missing Hunted on Thursday too,

by Forest Shepherd Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:58 am

I just finished season 13 of Who, so I definitely like the sound of this next season being reminiscent of it!

I don't remember if the episode in which the Doctor wrestles with a Sontaran was season 12 or 13, but I certainly wouldn't mind some similar capers in this series. Razz

The title-pairing is interesting. Everything but episodes 9 and 10 seem obviously linked to me. Must be those two-parters they were talking about.

by Mrs Figg Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:58 pm

Spoiler for Petty not to look at. CAST CHANGE

Spoiler:

by David H Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:00 pm

I know I'm VERY late to the party, but I've just started watching series 8 {{{thanks Petty! pub

}}}

I have to admit I had reservations about the new Doctor, and even more about the writing, as I watched Deep Breath. That Clara would have some confusion at the Doctor's regeneration was perhaps appropriate and understandable, but I thought it was handled clumsily. A little more wit and perception on Clara's part and a lot less time belaboring the point (especially the Madam Vastra's veil scene Rolling Eyes

) would have been fine by me. Same with the change-in-age point. Why belabor it? Just make a joke or two to acknowledge it and get on with the story Mad

But "Into the Dalek" won me over. Good tight storytelling, an homage to Fantastic Voyage, Daleks, and just enough but not too many "Wait, what??" moments. Capaldi holds the screen well. I think I'm going to like him as the Doctor. I'm looking forward to seeing where this is going.

However we're just coming on to Harvest, so my watching is likely to be a bit off-again on-again.

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:38 pm

I thought it was handled clumsily- David

I liked how they handled it, they had to take a new, young part of the audience with them who may have never seen any Classic or an older grumpier Doctor- I think using Clara as the audience surrogate in this case was the right thing to do. I think thats why they belabour the point.
The veil scene in Deep Breath is one of my personal favourites, I not only like the dialogue in it, but what Vastra says underpins one of the main themes of the series.
Its also the scene that allows through seeing Clara riled, Moffat to embark on his 'regen' of her character as much as the Doctors.

I think you will really come to enjoy Capaldi's performance, its full of subtly.

by Mrs Figg Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:03 pm

by subtlety do you mean flimsy whimsy?

by David H Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:36 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
I liked how they handled it, they had to take a new, young part of the audience with them who may have never seen any Classic or an older grumpier Doctor- I think using Clara as the audience surrogate in this case was the right thing to do. I think thats why they belabour the point.

Now that you mention it, that makes some sense as to why they did that. In that case I'd call it "pandering to a certain subset of their fans"; not as bad as Sherlock season 3, but headed down that road.

I'll admit I've always been ambivalent towards Vastra/Jenny/Strax. To me they often feel like a distraction from the plot that's been shoehorned in for a subset of fans, but never worse than this.
(Note: that feeling was reinforced by watching with a first-time Who viewer who was put off by the scolding lizard woman, as I tried to explain Silurians and Sontarans under my breath. )

I not only like the dialogue in it, but what Vastra says underpins one of the main themes of the series.

"Underpins"? That's the same as "crudely signposts", right? scratch

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:04 pm

In that case I'd call it "pandering to a certain subset of their fans"- David

I'd call it keeping a core element of your audience. The same goes for Vastra and co, the main purpose they serve is continuity with 11's era- Moffat gives his nervous young audience the assurance with them its still the same fun show even with an older harder to like Doctor (same thinking basically for 11's phone call, a final reassurance- one I felt was unnecessary myself- but same logic).

'"Underpins"? That's the same as "crudely signposts", right?'

No underpinnings you have to think about to notice and see the ripples off through the narrative, signposts are there instead of thought.

But hey can talk about the first 2 eps now-

fav bits of Deep Breath-

Doctor and the tramp- that's when I knew no matter how felt about 12 I was going to enjoy watching it happen.

Restaurant scene- any fears about how 12 and Clara would work together evaporated here for me. Great scene, great dialogue, great performances.

Clara v The Half Face Man

"Hello, Hello, rubbish robots from outer space!" the scene I knew for certain I was indeed going to love this Doctor.

Line that most defined 12 from his predecessors- (sitting at a restaurant table pouring to whisky's from a decanter)"I have a terrible feeling i am going to have to kill you, I thought you might like a drink first, I know I would."

by Mrs Figg Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:38 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:In that case I'd call it "pandering to a certain subset of their fans"- David

I'd call it keeping a core element of your audience. The same goes for Vastra and co, the main purpose they serve is continuity with 11's era- Moffat gives his nervous young audience the assurance with them its still the same fun show even with an older harder to like Doctor (same thinking basically for 11's phone call, a final reassurance- one I felt was unnecessary myself- but same logic).

no its not. its patronising your core audience. it says that Moffat didn't trust them to 'get' an older Doctor. and Vastra is just there to shoehorn in some political correct dickfuckery, but fails because Vastra and Jenny are as stereotypically Husband Wifey as any hetero couple from 60s sitcoms

by David H Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:40 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Doctor and the tramp- that's when I knew no matter how felt about 12 I was going to enjoy watching it happen.

An homage to Terminator I
"Your Cloths. Give them to me."
Doctor Who [11] - Page 21 Giphy

underpinnings you have to think about to notice and see the ripples off through the narrative, signposts are there instead of thought

A subjective distinction depending entirely on the viewer, I think.
Of course I can't see the ripples till I watch more of the series, but the veil sure felt like a flashing light on a signpost to me.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:13 pm

its patronising your core audience. it says that Moffat didn't trust them to 'get' an older Doctor.- Figg

If its patronising then so is just about every opening to every Forumshire story I've ever written, and same goes for about the first 4 or 5 Dicworld books- and is in all cases the author when trying something new (in my case different writing styles and genres, in Pratchetts case different main characters in the same setting) incorporates familiar ideas, themes and word play in order to reassure their audience it is indeed more of the same they like even if its a new flavour.

'Vastra is just there to shoehorn in some political correct dickfuckery'

No they are for the reasons of reassurance, of familiarity with the Doctor's world (11's anyway) this is further evidenced

Spoiler:

'An homage to Terminator I'

If it was Capaldi is more threatening than Arnie!

But for me I couldn't help but laugh at the Doctors realisation he had gone Scottish- "I'm Scottish! I. Am. Scottish. Ooooooooooh thats good! That's really good! I can complain about things. I can really complain about things now. "

The moment I realised I was not only getting a Scottish Doctor, but a crabbit one too! cheers

by Mrs Figg Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:25 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote: its patronising your core audience. it says that Moffat didn't trust them to 'get' an older Doctor.- Figg

If its patronising then so is just about every opening to every Forumshire story I've ever written, and same goes for about the first 4 or 5 Dicworld books- and is in all cases the author when trying something new (in my case different writing styles and genres, in Pratchetts case different main characters in the same setting) incorporates familiar ideas, themes and word play in order to reassure their audience it is indeed more of the same they like even if its a new flavour.

don't be silly. When NuWho started up in 2005 they didn't start immediately yammering on about how Eccleston was a total departure from all that had gone before. He looked so different from any past Doctor with his shaven head and leather jacket and his Northern accent. He was just accepted as he was. if they had forced it on peoples attention every 5 minutes it would have been patronising to the older generation of fans, and it would have meant zilch to the new ones. Likewise they didn't go on about Smith being the youngest incarnation of Doctor. what they did was flag up 'old grumpy Doctor' at boring 5 minute intervals because Moffat was afraid the 'kids' wouldn't like it. which is patronising your audience. Kids actually don't need reassuring, change is part of growing up and shouldn't be fudged. I f you think the actor in question is good enough they will soon grow to like him on his merits not because a companion bangs on in a very unsubtle way about his physical appearance. its not only unsubtle its ageist.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:33 pm

2005 was a reboot- it deliberately tried not to harken back to Classic- hence the Time War handily, offscreen getting rid of most of the shows surrounding mythos- so its hardly comparable when talking about writing deliberately for continuation purposes.

Tennants debut is a good example, they were so keen there in his first one to show that the show was the same even with a new face they keep the new face out of 90% of the first episode- instead they went back to Roses' housing estate, and just as Moffat used Vastra and Co RTD used Rose and her family and co (he even brought back popular side character Harrriet thingy MP from the Slitheen episodes to make it extra full of familiar faces) all to keep familiarity across the 2 series for exactly the same reasons as Moffat does.

And Moffat was taking a much bigger risk here, not only in going for an older much less user friendly Doctor, but in the manner of the series structure, where the normal rules- 1st episode introduce new Doctor, by episode end more or less the finished Doctor is presented (10 and 11 conform to this pattern)- series 8 eschews that altogether for a much more indepth longer look at the new Doctor and him coming to terms with himself. There was an even greater need than when RTD did it to make sure he took the audience with him across that period.

by Mrs Figg Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:23 pm

yeah yeah but all that is besides the point. The point being that Capaldi and Jenna had at least one episode of unpleasant ageist 'jokes' which weren't funny, witty, or necessary. Compared to the Eccy and Rose 'a lot of planets have a north' which is witty and explains a bit more about him without bludgeoning you over the head.

Also eveyone knew Capaldi was taking on the job so it wasn't a surprise. and going off my experience of him as the Doctor he is much more user friendly than the others being far more bland.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:26 pm

yeah yeah but all that is besides the point.- Figg

If its beside the point why were you complaining about it in the first place?! Mad

I didn't hear any unpleasant ageist jokes. Not one. And I am certain Capaldi would have no part in saying unpleasant ageist things if he was ever asked to.

by **Amarië** Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:35 pm

Pfff... It was nothing but ageist. We've been told for years how ageing is the worst thing evah.
OldAmy has to die, cause younger is better, River is whispering nervously not to let the Doctor see you've aged, Amy gets wrinkles and that's the end of her. She's sent off screen with great haste.

He's old! He's old! He's old! *sob* He's old! Yes, he is old.

It is a really lame, patronising story arc we've been served. That's the legacy from 11.

by Mrs Figg Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:41 pm

I thought it was really conventional and unimaginative having Clara remarking on Capaldis age, like its a funny or clever observation. its not, its dull.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:49 pm

OldAmy has to die, cause younger is better- Amarie

No old Amy has to die because it thematically underlines the Amy/River situation- going back to get her child kills the older River she knows and whose life is no less valid- just as Old Amy's is no less valid- the episode has nothing to do with ageing as such. That's just the vehicle for the thematic link.

'River is whispering nervously not to let the Doctor see you've aged'

In relation to how much he dislikes endings, ini an epiosde about endings, because he goes on and nothing else does- its the same sentiment 11 expresses to Amy in Power of Three when he tells he is not running away from anything, he is running to them, before they fade forever.

'It is a really lame, patronising story arc we've been served.'

I loved the character arcs in series 8 one of the best in NuWho, beautifully worked with each episode unveiling a new facet of the main themes and all satisfyingly resolved by series end. People complain when Moffat leaves stuff hanging for series and they complain when he ties it all up in a series.
I loved series 8 and find it mind boggling anyone could call the story arcs patronising.

by David H Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:21 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:In that case I'd call it "pandering to a certain subset of their fans"- David

I'd call it keeping a core element of your audience. The same goes for Vastra and co, the main purpose they serve is continuity with 11's era- Moffat gives his nervous young audience the assurance with them its still the same fun show even with an older harder to like Doctor (same thinking basically for 11's phone call, a final reassurance- one I felt was unnecessary myself- but same logic).

I'm sure your right about Moffat's purpose, and how is that different from Peter Jackson's purpose in the long, rambling AUJ intro you so skillfully cut to the bone?

If I were editing Deep Breath I'd cut out as much of the first half hour as possible, making sure to keep the tramp scene (I liked that a lot too. Nothing wrong with a tip of the hat to Arnie!) The doctor looking at his new face in the mirror and contemplating the lines that somebody else put in it, that says all that needs to be said about age and identity. Then I'd get on with the story.

As for all the extra jabbering exposition about age and identity, love and feelings in that first half hour, to me that's a sure sign of a writer who's forgotten he's first and foremost a storyteller, and needs a much firmer editor (not unlike PJ).